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Re: I give up, 440's just run HOT
[Re: JohnRR]
#66114
05/30/08 12:02 PM
05/30/08 12:02 PM
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,220
toronto canada
69chargeryeehaa
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toronto canada
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Quote:
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what dist is it ?
whats the bore size currently at ?
what fan setup and are the parts new or 40 years old ?
what tuning have you done to that carb ?
mopar performance ele dist kit, 0.030" over, stock fan (rigid 7-blade fixed), carb is tuned perfectly, 110 mainjet, 67x37 rod, orange spring, anything i miss???
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Re: I give up, 440's just run HOT
[Re: JohnRR]
#66115
05/30/08 12:03 PM
05/30/08 12:03 PM
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,220
toronto canada
69chargeryeehaa
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Quote:
what size spacer are you using ? how close is the fan itself to the rad ? how much of the fan is inside the shroud ?
what water pump are you using ?
what guage are you getting your readings from ?
stock water pump, no spacer, just pulley/fan, the fan is less than 2" from the rad, inside the shroud (stock), aftermarket mech temp gauge and factory dash gauge both read same.
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Re: I give up, 440's just run HOT
[Re: 68LAR]
#66117
05/30/08 12:07 PM
05/30/08 12:07 PM
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,220
toronto canada
69chargeryeehaa
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Quote:
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my issue is at idle, not at speed?
If it over heats at idle the problem is AIR FLOW. Get rid of the pusher like suggested. If you are running a clutch fan, make sure if is the thermal type (spring in front). If you already have this type, then you will probably have to go to a fixed of flex fan like a Flex a lite stainless blade. Most thermal clutches kick in at around 190*. So it could be free wheeling and not pulling enough air until it's too late. Some other things you might try is maybe using less antifreeze and more water. Just some suggestions that worked for me.  Good luck
i have a fixed fan 7 blade, so that's not the issue, i was thinking bout getting rid of the electric pusher, and getting a flex fan, just wondering what would fit?
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Re: I give up, 440's just run HOT
[Re: 68LAR]
#66118
05/30/08 12:09 PM
05/30/08 12:09 PM
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,220
toronto canada
69chargeryeehaa
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Quote:
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you would'nt be able to reccommend a flexalite fan that would fit???? i'm really thinking it's a air flow issue at idle, i'd like to remove the electric fan and put a better fan on the car....
I see you already have a fixed blade fan. I use a Flex a lite. Summit part# FLX-1318. It works very well, plus it has a 10K rpm rating.
that's exactly what i was looking at, does it just bolt right up??? and fit in the stock shroud?? it's the 18.25" one right?
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Re: I give up, 440's just run HOT
[Re: 69chargeryeehaa]
#66119
05/30/08 12:12 PM
05/30/08 12:12 PM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 4,017
South Park, Pa.
68LAR
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master
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South Park, Pa.
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Quote:
stock water pump, no spacer, just pulley/fan, the fan is less than 2" from the rad, inside the shroud (stock), aftermarket mech temp gauge and factory dash gauge both read same.
Just another thing I see that will help. When using a shroud,make sure that the fan blade is half of its width inside and outside the edge of the shroud. So if you're looking at the fan from the driverside of the car, you should only be able to see 1/2 of the blade. If it is all the way inside of the shroud, it will not pull air properly and actually create a turbulance and block air flow.
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that's exactly what i was looking at, does it just bolt right up??? and fit in the stock shroud?? it's the 18.25" one right?
Yes, it is the 18.25". But read what I said about how any fan being used with a shroud must fit. It is very improtant. You may have to spacer your existing fan or the new one.
Last edited by 68LAR; 05/30/08 12:15 PM.
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Re: I give up, 440's just run HOT
[Re: 68LAR]
#66120
05/30/08 12:19 PM
05/30/08 12:19 PM
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,220
toronto canada
69chargeryeehaa
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Quote:
Quote:
stock water pump, no spacer, just pulley/fan, the fan is less than 2" from the rad, inside the shroud (stock), aftermarket mech temp gauge and factory dash gauge both read same.
Just another thing I see that will help. When using a shroud,make sure that the fan blade is half of its width inside and outside the edge of the shroud. So if you're looking at the fan from the driverside of the car, you should only be able to see 1/2 of the blade. If it is all the way inside of the shroud, it will not pull air properly and actually create a turbulance and block air flow.
Quote:
that's exactly what i was looking at, does it just bolt right up??? and fit in the stock shroud?? it's the 18.25" one right?
Yes, it is the 18.25". But read what I said about how any fan being used with a shroud must fit. It is very improtant. You may have to spacer your existing fan or the new one.
it is exactly as you describe, half in/out. It's all stock setup right now, so it should be right. I think i'll try removing the fan, getting the flex one, and removing the pusher fan and see how that goes.  but it does fit inside a stock shroud right? i measured the stock shroud to have roughly a 20" opening.
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Re: I give up, 440's just run HOT
[Re: 68LAR]
#66122
05/30/08 12:31 PM
05/30/08 12:31 PM
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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200 degrees is a bit warm, but it's hardly in the boiling-over range. Sounds like a vapor lock issue to me. What kind of heat insulator do you have under the carb? Have you tried blocking the heat riser passage in the intake? Or . . . You could always switch to a Holley; they are more resistant to vapor lock than the Eddy carbs. 
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Re: I give up, 440's just run HOT
[Re: 68LAR]
#66125
05/30/08 12:50 PM
05/30/08 12:50 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,492
Kalispell Mt.
HotRodDave
I Live Here
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I Live Here
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Posts: 12,492
Kalispell Mt.
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You need to look where the hot air goes after it comes out the back of the shroud. Some cars it has a tendancy to just cycle back under the front of the car and go back through the radiator. Hot air rises and it will find the easiest way to go up. Look for big holes through the core support. Also look for an air dam under the core support to keep air from "recycleing".
Mabey an easier way to look at it would be too flip the car upside down (in your mind not reality) and pour water in the engine compartment and where it the majority going to go when it starts to get full, would it overflow to the area in front of the radiator?
A easy way to verify this might be the problem is open the hood and see if it still gets hot.
Still wondering what ratio AF to H20.
What pullys are you useing?
Your running problem will still be there after you get the engine to stay at 180-190 unless you keep the fuel from vaporizing where ever it is doing it.
Pusher fans are about worthless.
Also not all recored radiators are the same quality. The savey savoy project had an isue with the radiator cores not being right and causing over heating. Mabey someone can post a linki with pics for you to look at.
How much space is ther from the tip of the blade to the edge of the shroud?
Tons of stuff to try, don't give up! No reason for it to ever heat up if you don't want it to.
I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!
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Re: I give up, 440's just run HOT
[Re: HotRodDave]
#66126
05/30/08 01:02 PM
05/30/08 01:02 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,318
Manitoba, Canada
DaytonaTurbo
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Posts: 21,318
Manitoba, Canada
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A flex fan will do nothing for you. You're not going to get any more airflow than what you're getting with that fixed 7-blade stock unit. Flex fans just put less drag on the engine when rpms increase.
My 440 is hooked up to an aftermarket aluminum rad and it never overheats. And it's an untouched mid 70's 440 with who knows how much crap built up in the block's cooling passages over the years, and it never even hints at wanting to overheat.
Remember, when the rpms go down, the water pump and fan are spun slower. Since you have that 7-blade unit, I suspect there are no more airflow gains to be had there. What water pump did you use when you put the motor together? Milodon makes a high-volume water pump, have you given that a shot? How about your t-stat? Some t-stats are just designed to flow much better than others.
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Re: I give up, 440's just run HOT
[Re: DaytonaTurbo]
#66128
05/30/08 01:24 PM
05/30/08 01:24 PM
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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I have found the fans to move the air the best when they are further out of the shroud than half way in. I run mine at only .375 inch in the shroud with all the rest out. By moving from half way in to the further out, I improved my idle temp by 20 degrees.
If that doesn't work, you may want to switch to an AC (small impeller) pump and AC pulleys (1.3 ratio). That will almost certainly cure the problem.
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Re: I give up, 440's just run HOT
[Re: DaytonaTurbo]
#66129
05/30/08 01:28 PM
05/30/08 01:28 PM
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,220
toronto canada
69chargeryeehaa
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thanks for all the pointers guys. funny how i used to post advice about overheating issues, but now i have the problem too!!! I think my next step is to remove the pusher electric fan, add the rubber seal from the hood to rad support, and try that out. Then i'm going to try a 160 stat. After that i'm going to smash the car!!!!!. Everything is by the book, the vapor lock issus is because it's getting too hot. i do have the eddy insulating gasket which does keep the carb cool, and totally solved my no start issue from sitting for a few days and my hot start issues. I'm also thinking about wraping the fuel lines in tin-foil just to try. Underhood temps are very high when this happens, even though the water temps are about 195-200, it's really not that high, but everything under the hood is HOT to the touch. I'm going to try isolating the rad support as much as i can to avoid recycling. if that does'nt work, flush and fill the rad, 160 stat, water wetter, and then last step is the mildon pump/stat.....   
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Re: I give up, 440's just run HOT
[Re: 69chargeryeehaa]
#66130
05/30/08 02:18 PM
05/30/08 02:18 PM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,584
MD
p d'ro
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MD
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My other beast is a Vette, and on the Corvette Forum the techs all say that the 160° stat is no good, as it does not let the water stay in the radiator long enough to cool down? Back in the day when I didn't know better, I took the thermostat out of my old 318 in the summer time.. No problems... Apparently there is an optimal temp, and too cool will cause poor mileage, screwed, plugs, etc...
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Re: I give up, 440's just run HOT
[Re: Mopar73340]
#66133
05/30/08 03:12 PM
05/30/08 03:12 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,324
A gulag near you.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,324
A gulag near you.
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Quote:
Since you are using the 7 blade fan, you need to be sure the clutch unit is engaging at idle. I'd be willing to bet the fan does not spin very fast even with the engine reved up. The STOCK replacement type clutch unit will not spin the 7 blade fan fast enough as the fan is to heavy. You need the HEAVY DUTY clutch unit. My Challenger did the same as you describe until I replaced the fan clutch and now it sits at 195* or just slightly above in traffic with a 195* thermostat. Also saounds as though you need a heat insuator or spacer under the carb
he doesn't have the clutch fan , its the fixed fan and i'm trying to figure out how its half in , half out without a spacer in between the fan and the pulley ???
do you have the lower shroud that gets installed between the bumper brackets ?
is the system under full pressure ???
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With daytonaturbo, you probably have enough air flow with your setup, try a hi flow t-stat and a hi flow water pump.
