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Compression Vs. Valve lift? #658814
04/02/10 07:13 AM
04/02/10 07:13 AM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 430
New Hampshire
n_bogie1984 Offline OP
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n_bogie1984  Offline OP
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New Hampshire
Ok i am kinda at a cross road about to order some parts in the next week.
I am aiming for best power and torq results i can(just like everyone else in the world) and was wondering what some opinions where.
the motor is a 440 with a 4.15 stroke and srp flat tops with valve reliefs they say are good for .700 lift. i know this teardown i gotta check clearances to see really how much it can go. now the pistons are .012 in the block and the heads are 74cc perf rpms.
now should i zero the block and mill the heads down about another .040 to around mid 60's and then go with the biggest cam, or should i leave the comp alittle lower which will allow for a larger cam.

comp right now is figured around 12.3 to 1.
fuel is not a problem cause it will be running c14.

Re: Compression Vs. Valve lift? [Re: n_bogie1984] #658815
04/02/10 08:49 AM
04/02/10 08:49 AM
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Frederick Offline
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Base the choice of the cam on the complete package, not on how much lift you can cram in.
And you don't want lower compression with a bigger cam.

Recalculated your compression and with a 0.039" head gasket, standard bore and pistons 0.012" in the hole you're at 11.7:1

If I recall correctly Edelbrock performer RPM heads are good up to 0.600"lift.

To recommend a camshaft you'll need to give more info; intended usage, stall speed, diff ratio, tire height, vehicle weight, intake manifold, headers?, carburetor, type of cam you want.


383B, 9.8:1, Lunati 60302(220/226@0.050 262/268Dur, 0.475"/0.494", Stealth heads, Performer manifold, QF SS-750-AN carb, 3.31Diff, A833 4-speed manual.
Re: Compression Vs. Valve lift? [Re: n_bogie1984] #658816
04/02/10 02:11 PM
04/02/10 02:11 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,291
West Coast, USA
jbc426 Offline
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I have flat tops too. In an effort to get optimum quench, I had the block decked to leave the pistons flush with the top of the block deck~ "zero decked"? Using Indy EZ's and a fel-pro head gasket, I believe I ended up just under 13 to 1.

The cam I have is a hydraulic roller with only around .554" lift, yet the engine is very streetable( I only burn an average of a tank a month, so the extra $ to mix race gas with pump gas is not really an issue) and dynoed at over 680 horsepower.

In my case, I think with a bigger cam that focuses less on streetability with 3.54 gears and not worrying about increased valvetrain stresses; it could easily exceed 700+ horsepower. If drag racing was my focus, running different gears and the bigger cam; it would be great for draging, but that's really not what I use the car for. I sacraficed peak output to better match my useage.


The bottom line is what is to factor in your combination and intended use for this motor, and match your cam choice to that. As far as what to cut what to, go for optimum quench and run the lowest octane fuel the motor is happy running on. A knock detector is invaluable to figure that out.


1970 Plymouth 'Cuda #'s 440-6(block in storage)currently 493" 6 pack, Shaker, 5 speed Passon, 4.10's
1968 Plymouth Barracuda Convertible 408 Magnum EFI with 4 speed automatic overdrive, 3800 stall lock-up converter and 4.30's (closest thing to an automatic 5 speed going)
Re: Compression Vs. Valve lift? [Re: jbc426] #658817
04/02/10 05:27 PM
04/02/10 05:27 PM
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Columbia, CT
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moper Offline
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What do you do with the car? Do you have to run c14 or you just have access to VP fuels?


Well, art is art, isn't it? Still, on the other hand, water is water! And east is east and west is west and if you take cranberries and stew them like applesauce they taste much more like prunes than rhubarb does. Now, uh... Now you tell me what you know.
Re: Compression Vs. Valve lift? [Re: moper] #658818
04/02/10 08:28 PM
04/02/10 08:28 PM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 430
New Hampshire
n_bogie1984 Offline OP
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well see here is the thing you cant really base my settup off a car, because it is a whole diffrent world then where i am. this is going into a 2wd modified pulling truck. so alot of factors go out the door.

ok now on questioning my compression the piston size is 4.375.
as for rpm useage the rig will run a max of 500 yards while not pulling and as for pulling it will take off at 4,000 rpm when it hits 7200 rpm i will shift it and hold it for all it will turn.
car weights and such does not factor into any of this application.

just tring to figure out if 12 to 1 range comp with a larger cam whould show more gains then lets say 14 to 1 with a smaller cam

Re: Compression Vs. Valve lift? [Re: Frederick] #658819
04/02/10 08:34 PM
04/02/10 08:34 PM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 430
New Hampshire
n_bogie1984 Offline OP
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n_bogie1984  Offline OP
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also as for headers they are 2 1/4 upright headers intake will be either a team g or a victor, with a 1050 dom.

Re: Compression Vs. Valve lift? [Re: n_bogie1984] #658820
04/02/10 10:21 PM
04/02/10 10:21 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,675
Columbia, CT
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moper Offline
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Quote:

Ok i am kinda at a cross road about to order some parts in the next week.
I am aiming for best power and torq results i can(just like everyone else in the world) and was wondering what some opinions where.
the motor is a 440 with a 4.15 stroke and srp flat tops with valve reliefs they say are good for .700 lift. i know this teardown i gotta check clearances to see really how much it can go. now the pistons are .012 in the block and the heads are 74cc perf rpms.
now should i zero the block and mill the heads down about another .040 to around mid 60's and then go with the biggest cam, or should i leave the comp alittle lower which will allow for a larger cam.

comp right now is figured around 12.3 to 1.
fuel is not a problem cause it will be running c14.




It doesnt amtter if its a car or not. But you can't look at cams without knowing the details... IMo, dont waste time with the Team G. Victor all the way. 1050 will be fairly small for what you're doing IMO. Once you get the wheel speed up you need horsepower to keep it up. So I'd recommend upping the compression to 13:1 and running something with 285-290°@.050 duration and lift around .630. I think you might do well to get a porting job on them too. If you can get them to flow a little better then I'd up the lift and drop some duration to lower the torque peak. Just my opinion anyway.


Well, art is art, isn't it? Still, on the other hand, water is water! And east is east and west is west and if you take cranberries and stew them like applesauce they taste much more like prunes than rhubarb does. Now, uh... Now you tell me what you know.
Re: Compression Vs. Valve lift? [Re: moper] #658821
04/04/10 11:22 AM
04/04/10 11:22 AM
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Kalispell Mt.
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HotRodDave Offline
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I think your missing the deal here, max lift is not limited by the valve releif in the pistons. That is sorta false advertising they sold you those pistons on. Max lift occurs while the valve is 1/2 way down the bore and no where near the pistons. In order to make as much power as possible you need as much compression as you can get. If it was me I would zero deck the block and run a .039 to .035 head gasket and while I had the heads off I would mill them .060 or so, get them as small as possible and the valve will probably be the limiting factor there. Once you get all that figured out then you start picking a cam you are going to want to open the valve before TDC and meet the piston at TDC and chase it down the bore (within about .080in and .100 ex) to as high of a max lift as you can as long as you do not exceed max head flow lift and then hang the valve open right there until you have to strt closeing it to make it close at your predetermined intake valve closeing point. When picking a cam you need to determine 4 points that will be best for your engine and then get as much lift as your heads can flow to. Most important is the intake closeing point, your cylinder preasure is determined by that and your compression ratio. Next you gott pick the intake opening, then the EX close and opening then get as much lift as you can (without exceeding head flow) you will probably have to open it a little slow at first to keep from hitting the piston but once the piston is pulling away from the head you want it open high and fast.


I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!



Re: Compression Vs. Valve lift? [Re: n_bogie1984] #658822
04/04/10 12:21 PM
04/04/10 12:21 PM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041
Lincoln Nebraska
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RapidRobert Offline
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I would mike/measure to see what your actual CR and P/V clearance is now then consider milling the decks and or heads for more CR keeping tabs on the resulting P/V clearance and that (milling) will affect the intake port alignment and pushrod length. CR is squeeze and squeeze is one of the main parameters of power.


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