I know about the rear valance brackets, but I read a description of a car for sale a while back(I think it was Best of Show) that mentioned a different ground location for early build cars. What are they talking about, by the radiator support?
Any other differences?

Early hoods do not have crinkle zones(allowining the hood to fold up on impact). This lead to the posibility of decapitation if you rearended someone.

Only early built FE5(ralley red) cars with shaker hoods had a FE5 red SHAKER.

I remember There was a thread a while back that showed a couple cars that did not have the pierce nut on the radiator support for the negative ground cable. Be curious to know for sure HOW they attached the cable to the support originally.

Actually there are several nuances to the 70 versus 71 and up cars.
door side impact beams in 71 and up - not in 70's
upper door frame window sweeps attaching differently.

hoods crumple zones as mentioned

hood hinge to hood bolts changed from a 5/16" bolt to a 3/8" bolt sometime late in the 70 to early 71 model year
parking brake cable routing is different 70 versus 71 and up is another clue

Early 70 trunk lids lacked the cutouts to mount the T/A & AAR wing/spoiler.

I have yet to see an E body without door impact beams. Are you positive they made the without beams Bill?

No I agree, door beams in all E-Bodies from Day 1...

Oct 13th SPD Challenger, Hamtrmnk - no inner door side-impact beams. One has been replaced, one still original to the car w/o beam. Interior differences would include lack of wood grain door panel insert for early built R/T models. Through Jan 70?

Woodgrain across the board on all Challenger door panels started about Thanksgiving of 1969 (end of Nov).
Can anyone really get a perfect handle on when the word Slap Stik showed up on auto floor shifters? My early November 69 build car says it.

This manual page for the 1970 model year says "all" for the side beams;

http://www.hamtramck-historical.com/images/serviceHighlights/70%20sh%2048.jpg

The info below contains info on various differences between E bodies. It is copy pasted to here from a previous thread. I have not proof read it, so there are probably some discrepancies, or at least some of the info should be gone into in greater depth. Don't shoot the messenger...

Tav


there is a slight 'stamping' difference between 70 and 71 on the inner fender.

It's the pass fender well.


Trunk
tank vent tube styles are different depending on year and emissions pkg
Trunk lid support rods 2 for a 70,,, 1 for a 71-74


shock inspection plug style - on top and are metal for a 70. And on the rear of the hump and orange rubber for 71-74


70 challenger special dash pad and trim
seat buttons / backs
seat belts
console, 4 hole vs 5 hole, ashtray vs. seatbelt pocket, manual vs. automatic, colors
exterior door handles challenger vs. barracuda

Wheelbase differs, challenger is bigger by two inches, located on the front edge of rear floor pan
two inches differance in side of car in front of door, or behind door?
roof differs cuda vs. challenger
doors are same except for skin?
check for frame differences under car challenger vs. cuda and also through the years, drain hole / seat belt mount locations also?
torque boxes (none on 383 rt challengers) (yes on 440 and 426) (no on /6 convertibles) (yes on aar and ta)
which cars will have trans am exhaust mounting holes already marked on the inner rocker?
standard instrument cluster seat belt light pic ( similar to reverse 4 speed light but orange)
70-72 used same bumper brackets, 73 and 74 used longer brackets for crash resistance
hood rib crumple zone
extra beams inside doors
jack for 70 should be T bar, not hollow bar

fenders
70 and 71 challenger should be the same Not!
72, 73, and 74 challenger should also be the same, the difference from the previous version being the marker lights, and maybe the way the grill bolts up, look into that.

70 barracuda single headlights with spotwelded buckets
71 barracuda dual headlights with bolt on buckets, same markerlights as 70, no louvers
71 cuda dual headlights with bolt on buckets, same markerlights as 70, standard with louvers
72, 73, 74 barracuda different marker light than before, single headlights



70 challenger different vs other years
Bumper jack.

Oil breather 2 niple to 3 niple.

Radiator.

Dash gauge bezel.

Vent knobs??(not sure on this one)

Gas pedal is different

hood hindges are different the top bar were they mount to the hood is narrower.

emer/park brake cables are different.

The fenders on my 71 -made in Dec. 1970- does not have the notches in front fenders. The notches I believe were in preparation for the 72's which required the notch for the grille panel brace. So the later 71 fenders probably had the notch as they started stamping out that piece for fenders. Just a guess.

Disc brake proportioning valve

Cowl vents

Door mirrors

Driver door is different for mirror attachment

Bucket Seats have a differnt back cover and metal hinge covers

Console is different at back 70 has seat belt slot 71 and up has ash tray

Console auto shifter has a woodgrain ball and 71 and up have a black T handle

Hood does not have crumple zones on earlier 70 models

Dashpad is 70 only
I believe the floorpans are 1970's then 1971's then 1972-74's
disc brake master cylinder is 70 only
1970 is the last year for the bolt down lid on drum brake cars as well

I think the automatic brake pedal pad is 70 only,or maybe it's 70-71

Decklid stainless trim is different also. 70 is one year only also the rear quarter trim on both sides of it
I think the 70 challenger rallye dash light bar is alittle differnt also from the curvature of it.
I think the door guts are different as well. From what I am told the later year doors has some improvements. I honestly don't recall what they are. Probably relates to the glass mechanisms.

The doors in general are different in the way the window fuzzys attach to the upper part.
Seatbelts
Trunk Pan - Holes for the upper shock mount
I saw you have the gauge bezel on the list...And there was also a different radio/heater surround...the "ribbed" pieces
The plastic parts on the lower part of the dashboard that mate up with the dash pad have a slightly different configuration
arent the e-brake pedals differant as well
Right inner fender panel left is different than a latter 71.Brake cables at rear.Disks are 70-71 only.Heater box has a different part number but I don't know why.A/C box also has a different number

Thumbwheel radio I believe. It may have been used into 71 though.
Hood latch is diff

Woodgrain chrome plate on the floor console only has 4 screw holes for 70 and 71 and up has 5 holes
I'm not sure on the AM but the thumbwheel AM/FM was also found on some early 71's

also disc brake caliper guide pins are 70 and MAYBE some 71's.

they have a smaller hex head than the later pins do

Pistol grip shifter is slip in style for 70 and bolt in style for 71.
Center speaker grill is different
(Note: I may be off on some of this stuff i.e. 70 and 71 may be the same in some cases, feel free to correct me if need be! also sorry if I repeat something someone else already said)

Steering column guts are different from 70 to 71-4.

Standard Gauge graphics are different from 70 and 71-4 (also cuda is different from challenger and maybe gran coupe is different from other cudas)
Also the needles on some standard gauges different from other standard gauges, maybe a 70 only difference.

70-71 Rally gauges different from 72-4 (location of reset knobs for speedo and clock)

70-71 rallye tach 8k, 72-4 mostly 7 grand

rear quarter windows are different from 70 and 71-4 (some have chrome weather strip mount that is wide, others don't)

Wiring harnesses (engine harness, dash harness at least are different. For example, 72-4 has seat belt light on dash harness)

70 had points, 71-4 had electronic ignition(maybe option?)

A/C wiring is different (at some point they added a low pressure switch)

72-4 has emissions can

Gas tank emissions routing is different between 70 and 71-4 (70 has a hose going to gas tank filler, 71 has 4 hoses that end up routing into 1 hose that goes to front of car)

70 rear drums 11 inch with ribs look different than later model drums with no ribs

70 front rotors are 2 piece, 71-4 are single piece

Front rotor inner bearing size on disc brakes changed sizes (this may be related to the 1 piece/2 piece. The spindle also changes with the bearing)

upper a-arm mounting bolts are different between 70 and 71-4 (different length)

hood latch different between 70 and all other years

71 challenger has large metal piece across front of car over grille, 70 has no piece, 72-4 has no piece

70 (or is it 71?) has the 3 pointed dodge emblem on the front of the hood

I think maybe the turn signal switch is slightly different, as least some of them have different color connectors on them

Windshield trim mounting clips are held on by screws in 70, go on clips for 71-4 (same for rear window trim as well)

71 only had wide chrome option on front of hood

Did one year have turn signal option on top of the fenders (maybe 70 only?)

Brushed tire trim rings versus non-brushed (one was 70 only?)

Plugs for rear shock mount holes different between 70 and 71-4

70-71 side marker lights different from 72-4

rear wing for 70 different than 71

T/A hood only available in 70

Roof bows different between 70 and 71-4 (also sometimes they mount directly into the roof, sometimes they mount into clips, and the number changes)

Visors are different 70-71 and 72-4

70 seat belts are different from 71, different than 72-4

70 headlight bezels have no ridge, 71 headlight bezels have slight ridge around each headlight.
(72-4 headlights mounted in fiberglass)

70 front marker lights use a different connector than 71-4

I think the horn relay wiring is diff on a '70.

Also, the '70 side markers are painted black within the raised edges, while in '71, they are not
Also, parking brake routing is diff
emergency flasher differs
I could'nt determine if the E-brake pedal is different or not
BEEPBEEP says Not necessarily true

Bumper jack.

Oil breather 2 niple to 3 niple.

Disc brake proportioning valve

Gas tank emissions routing is different between 70 and 71-4 (70 has a hose going to gas tank filler, 71 has 4 hoses that end up routing into 1 hose that goes to front of car)

70 front rotors are 2 piece, 71-4 are single piece

upper a-arm mounting bolts are different between 70 and 71-4 (different length)

71 challenger has large metal piece across front of car over grille, 70 has no piece

T/A hood only available in 70

END BEEBBEEP

HOOD HINGES
note: hood bolts different size in 70? hinge slots differ too?
All will fit & function the same. Appearances are different as follows:

70 is a one year only. Narrower top strap. Mesh teeth type.
71-2 are similar to 70, but have a wider top strap and a larger diameter pin rivet on the rear top strap.
73-4 Have a "knee action" mechanism rather than the mesh teeth.
71-4 B-body are similar to 73-4 but have a shorter vertical adjustment slot in the base.

Not only is the floor pan a 70 only piece but so are the rockers.
The rear seat belt mounts.

Didn't 70 have the same 2-piece brake port valve as 71??

The window regulators for manual windows are different between cuda and challenger. The shaft to which the window crank attaches is a different length, because of the different interior/door panels being used.

70 only hood and fenders, gas pedal ,mirrors int seats , seat backs and frames and the list go's on and on ,it's a one year only car


May not apply to you, but if you are installing a high volume oil pump in the engine you'll need to replace the oil pump drive shaft with a hardened version so you don't twist the end off.

70 Only You can't lock/then close the doors (anti-lockout feature). In 71 you can lock and close the door.

70 used a button release for the ignition switch in the column.
71 used a sheetmetal lever to retain the ignition switch.

71-up Had a key release lever to remove the ignition key, 70 did not.

4 speed Reverse light firewall gromet was bigger in 71 than in 70.



The plastic parts on the lower part of the dashboard that mate up with the dash pad have a slightly different configuration, but seem to be interchangeable.
Yes, they are different.
NO, they will not interchange!

They'll only go about half way on. They're designed to fit the dashpad they were made for.



Heater box has a different part number but I don't know why.A/C box also has a different number
Early AC boxes are held together with screws instead of the later spring clips. Heater boxes are probably the same way, and this is probably the reason for the part # differance.



[quote
Standard Gauge graphics are different from 70 and 71-4 (also cuda is different from challenger and maybe gran coupe is different from other cudas)
Also the needles on some standard gauges different from other standard gauges, maybe a 70 only difference.
Yes, the 70 challenger standard guage cluster has different lettering and needles than any other. optional clock available that matches the 70 challenger stuff.

70 (or is it 71?) has the 3 pointed dodge emblem on the front of the hood
pretty sure the 3 pointed dodge hood emblem was used on flat hoods in 70 and shaker hoods in 71.

I think maybe the turn signal switch is slightly different, as least some of them have different color connectors on them
The biggest differance in the turn signal switch is the emergency flasher switch that is part of it. The flasher switch is different for 70. It changed again later on also
One says Hazard the other says Flasher internally they are the same



Internally they ARE the same, but the black piece that pulls in and out to turn them on and off is shaped differently. So differently that you cant swap them without also swaping the pot metal steering column part that is notched for it to stick out of, or cutting something to make it fit. You might get a 70 style flasher to fit in a later model car without cutting, but the later style flasher wont go in the 70 housing without some trimming.

70 is more trapezoid shaped and says flasher, while the later one that says hazard is a little more square shaped and comes with another little black piece that slides into the metal steering column part to fill in some of the notch that the hazard switch sticks out of.

My solution to this problem was to take my good 70 flasher switch with the broken turn signal cams, along with a good 71 turn signal setup with broken hazard button, and drill out the little rivets holding the black flasher/hazard button. Remove the broken 71 button and replace it with the good 70 button. Add a little grease so it slides well, and assemble with the tiniest screws and nuts I could find where the rivets were. Works great!



70 only hood and fenders, gas pedal ,mirrors int seats , seat backs and frames and the list go's on and on ,it's a one year only car.

70 Only You can't lock/then close the doors (anti-lockout feature). In 71 you can lock and close the door.

70 used a button release for the ignition switch in the column.
71 used a sheetmetal lever to retain the ignition switch.

71-up Had a key release lever to remove the ignition key, 70 did not.

Looky at this pic of a repop hump going on a '70 floor pan. Notice the repops have the hump to go w/the newer floor pans.



Headliner bows

It could take a whole book (and then some) to really answer this question.

In order to stay on topic, we'll need the original poster to clarify his question a little.

What do you mean by "Early"?
70 vs 71-74?
cars built in the fall of 1969 vs later cars?
Pre-Production cars vs Production cars?
How early is early?

Next Question, Are we discussing all E bodies, or are we limiting the conversation by make (Dodge Challenger, Plymouth Barracuda), or by model (Challenger, Challenger SE, Challenger RT, Challenger RT/SE, Challenger TA, Challenger 340 (A66 package), Challenger Deputy, Challenger Western Sport Special, Challenger Rallye, Various Challenger Convertible models, Barracuda, Gran Coupe, 'Cuda, AAR 'Cuda, Barracuda Coupe, Various Barracuda Convertible models)

Answering these two questions will help us to give you the information you're looking for.

Tav

pic 2

early cudas did not come with rear swaybar.

Thanks for the replies. To clarify my question, I was referring to early 70 compared to later 70 models, especially the Challenger. I know about most of the mentioned differences-door panel woodgrain, hood crumple zones, etc., but I had never heard of the ground location difference until I saw that description. I have a 9/11 SPD Challenger and it has the threaded nut. I have an Oct 69 parts car that also has the threaded nut. So maybe it was very early cars (Aug). The rear interior panels also have a different hole location near the quarter glass.