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I see the distinction between stock restored and OE Gold classes as two entirely different animals. It's like comparing a Div-1 basketball team to a Div-2 team, they do the same thing, but are not equal.

My take is if you are in an 'original stock restored' type class, where the owner/restorer did not prep the car for the OE concours correct paint daub, factory original NOS air in the tires and velvet glove class, that reproduction parts should look correct and no points taken if they are used. In the event, that two equal cars make it to the top, then would be the time to take special consideration as to whether its OEM or Repop. (tie breaker situation)

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Again, it really depends on the judging body , they all judge using different criteria, and from what I've seen most "show field" judinging is HIGHLY subjective to the guy holding the clip board's opinion.

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"In original class judging"

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Hi Mark,
I think the category or class quoted above answers the basic question. In the Ford World their class for originality (similar to OE) is the THOROUGHBRED CLASS. The problem there was some of the judges were allowing certain items to slip through because they were considered too difficult to find. Things like the original Battery, Tires, Exhaust, etc.... the perishables! So what did they do? They "watered down" the criteria by allowing those items to compete on an equal level with cars that DID NOT incorporate those particular original pieces. About 9 years ago I was shocked to see an all original Boss 302 get the same Gold classification as another participant who had a reproduction battery, tires and exhaust system. There was so many disgruntle people complaining that they decided to come up with a new class called the PLATINUM THOROUGHBRED. The "Thoroughbred Class" originally stated that not ONE part could be a reproduction and be allowed to participate in that venue. They basically did what I stated in the other thread and changed their definitions to accommodate their agenda! There are some participants who can now "brag" that they have a "THOROUGHBRED" car even though in reality, they do not!! I've said it before and I'll say it again....HISTORY does not change, only our awareness and perception of it. I guess you can apply that to certain definitions. If they don't include or make you feel good, someone will simply move the fences!!

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OK, i took this approach with my Challenger.

if the NOS part was obscenely expensive, i used repo parts.

if it's visible and you can noticeably tell the difference between the two, I went with NOS

i looked for a lot of original parts, cleaned them up and they looked and are correct.

i wanted to drive my car, so ALL NOS parts would be a waste of money for me.

i only had two frivolous NOS buys so far

NOS left fender - $700
NOS 14" trim rings - $600


as for the judging thing, i can give a rats a** what people think and say about my car. it's mine and not theirs. if they have a negative comment then go build you own. judges can keep all the trophies, I'm out to meet people and have a good time!

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That's great, everyone should enjoy the hobby and thier cars to meet thier personal level of satisfaction.

That being said, if you bring your car to be judged (meaning that nobody is "judging" your car unless you asked for it to be judged), don't blame the judges for pointing out things that are incorrect due to the personal choices you made in restoring your car.

Bluestar, I agree with you, cars that have correct parts (NOS production line correct parts, properly restored original, etc.) should recieve higher scores than those that have the same parts replaced with a reproduction or incorrectly restored original parts.

The ICCA OE Gold judging body is developing a system which leaves room for both types of cars, those restored with a high number of reproduction parts, and those which have a higher number of original/NOS parts used in thier restoration. I won't go into depth here because detailed perameters have not been set in stone yet. Basically what is done is that there are colors assigned to the points.

For example a black point would be for an original componant, and a red point is assigned to a reproduction componant.

At the bottom of the score sheet the black and red points are totalled seperately then combined for a total score, a car using a high number of correct original parts might have a total of 96 percentage points (most cars have 2-3,000 total points possible) which would make the car an "OE Gold" scoring car. Since most of it's componants are originals, most of that 96% (say 80%) would be "black" points, and the remaining (16%) would be red. Where as the car using more reproduction parts might have the same 96% OE Gold score but that score would have a larger number of "red" points, say 56% red and 40% black.

In the above scenario a hobbiest could still build a car to an "OE Gold" level, but do so affordably using less expensive/available parts. This system is also fair to the other person who went the all out and spent the time and money to do his car using as much NOS as possible because the ICCA keeps permanant records of how each car scores. The higher "black" point cars will always be recognized as being more historically correct.

Two scenarios for the above owners:

Reproduction parts user: "I have a car that scored 96% OE Gold in ICCA show judging, it's a 56% black point car"

OEM parts user: "I have a car that score 96% OE Gold in ICCA show judging, It's an 80% black point car"

Both people have bragging rights to an OE Gold car and a person considering which car to use as a reference restoration model would then have a clear understanding of which car really was more accurate to what rolled off the assembly line when doing his own car. Personally I see it as a win/win for all involved.

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as for the judging thing, i can give a rats a** what people think and say about my car. it's mine and not theirs. if they have a negative comment then go build you own. judges can keep all the trophies, I'm out to meet people and have a good time!

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I know this part of a quote was not yours Scott (and you briefly referenced it) but I could only laugh and shake my head when I read it. Judges simply do their job......they judge what is brought WILLINGLY to their venue/event. Why would anyone take such a hostile stand against a group of people that do what they are assigned to do? Judges do not scour the shows looking to criticize and put cars down for displaying personal characteristics! They don't care what people do to their cars!!! Their job is simply to determine if a vehicle exhibits the necessary characteristics to be deemed worthy of a predetermined set of standards! I have yet to see ANY judges on a mission to find show participants so they can "have a negative comment" about what they bring to a show. If you don't want the critique of a judge....don't put your car in a judged event.

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Bluestar, I agree with you, cars that have correct parts (NOS production line correct parts, properly restored original, etc.) should recieve higher scores than those that have the same parts replaced with a reproduction or incorrectly restored original parts.

The ICCA OE Gold judging body is developing a system ....
In the above scenario a hobbiest could still build a car to an "OE Gold" level, but do so affordably using less expensive/available parts.
Both people have bragging rights to an OE Gold car and a person considering which car to use as a reference restoration model would then have a clear understanding of which car really was more accurate to what rolled off the assembly line when doing his own car. Personally I see it as a win/win for all involved.

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