Re: Wire guage
[Re: NachoRT74]
#618666
03/02/10 01:59 PM
03/02/10 01:59 PM
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,096 Valencia, España
NachoRT74
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master
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,096
Valencia, España
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Ok, avoiding the fuses and flasher deal itself what it looks you already did it here are my thoughs
as you can see on my diagram, the discontinued lines represents the Mopar wiring method
but then some doubts comes into my mind...
what source feeds the wire I outlined in pink to ign switch ? RED FROM STARTER OR BLACK FROM ALTERNATOR connected in to the fuse box ?
what about the LIGHT SWICTH SOURCE ? where comes from ? The POWER SYSTEM WIRE OR THE ALTERNATOR WIRE ON FUSE BOX ? instruction sheet on point 12 states: 12. ATTACH THE WIRE TO POWER UP THE HEAD LIGHT SWITCH TO THE LIGHT SW B+ TERMINAL. (RED W/ BLACK STRIPE WIRE) (12GA) but doesn't say whats the input source to feed it... power system or alternator wire
BOTH OF THOSE WIRES ARE spliced in to the alt wire on stock system to use ammeter correctly, but dunno what does feed the POWER SYSTEM WIRE into the painless fusebox.
when I know what feeds this wire into the new fuse box will be able to diagram how to wire it.
To be able to use correctly the ammeter all the load needs to be on black wire side of the ammeter
still analizing
( BTW, dunno why 2 acc wires coming from ign switch on diagram )
BASICALLY all my doubts are concerned into:
-on painless fusebox, What is the source what feeds the ign switch and the lights switch... Alt wire or Power system wire ?
-on painless fusebox, What is the source what feeds all the constant powered fuses/devices ? Alt wire or Power system wire ?
without having the fuse box in hands or without known the Chebby system ( what it looks Painless is based ), is hard to tell to me
Can you check for continuity to know what wires/circuits register continuity with ALT wire and wich ones with SYSTEM POWER wire ?
With a Charger born in Chrysler assembly plant in Valencia, Venezuela
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Re: Wire guage
[Re: 70duster340]
#618669
03/02/10 05:27 PM
03/02/10 05:27 PM
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,096 Valencia, España
NachoRT74
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will work on it... patiente
fisrt... this is the Stock configuration on a Mopar ( tipical ). some models could it be slight diff, but mainly this is the setup. You can see all the consumption is on alt side ( but starter motor itself, not the relay what is activated from ign switch ), to make work the ammeter correctly
Last edited by NachoRT74; 03/02/10 05:52 PM.
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Re: Wire guage
[Re: 70duster340]
#618671
03/02/10 08:18 PM
03/02/10 08:18 PM
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,096 Valencia, España
NachoRT74
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then we have this ( mainly ) from painless instruction sheet.
where, is clear what instruction says about the orange wire for acc on fusebox... but brown ?
then how is routed the red and black wires. Instruction says RED to hook to batt is the main system power... but black coming from alt ? what is for ?
then... lights red/white... I Guess is feeded from batt or alt.
then... we could break the red wire coming from starter solenoid and fit in the middle the ammeter wiring... but what is the black wire function ? are both linked together inside the fusebox ?
I guess the ign switch red wire is linked to... black or red ( batt or alt )
definitelly break the red line coming from bat and fit in the middle the ammeter will work to make work the ammeter correctly. But would wish to know about the rest.
Maybe I'm oversizing the "problem" BUT when I'm giving advices I like to get in to details and made everything correctly matched.
With a Charger born in Chrysler assembly plant in Valencia, Venezuela
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Re: Wire guage
[Re: NachoRT74]
#618672
03/02/10 08:26 PM
03/02/10 08:26 PM
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,096 Valencia, España
NachoRT74
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Just right this ( attachment ) but...
will check further the rest of details about the fuses and sources asigment you could make
With a Charger born in Chrysler assembly plant in Valencia, Venezuela
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Re: Wire guage
[Re: 70duster340]
#618676
03/03/10 12:25 AM
03/03/10 12:25 AM
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,096 Valencia, España
NachoRT74
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Quote:
I also have a few more questions (as if you didn't have enough to think about, lol). Will the wires passing through the bulkhead be OK as long as I replace the wires and install new terminals with dielectric grease, or should I just run the wires straight through the firewall? Also, should I hook up the gauges to the terminal on the fuseblock that is designated for the gauges? It's a fused terminal.
Thanks so much, Nacho!!!
mmmm, I will run through firewall... no need to get rid off the original bulkhead ones. You can clean and replace terminals and will be definitelly fine, but also would run directy sources at a side of bulkhead.
Keeping the stock wires at bulkhead( once serviced ) will help on use a smaller gauge wire on parallel line. So won't need to use a 6 GAUGE WIRE LOL... just 10 or 12 will be nice to work together with the already existing 12 gauge one. If 10 better, and honestly enough. One 10 and the stock 12 will work more less like you have an 8 gauge wire.
You can in fact use terminals on parallel wires with 10 gauge wire to be able to service the wires or harness if needed for some reason. Automotive terminals are unexistant to 8 or 6 gauge wires( I haven't found at least ).
remember the first step is the parallel wires, but that will be just 40% of the job. The rest 60% is a good alt choice. No need for 100 amps alt really. Stock lates 78 amps is really enough, specially when using smaller pulley.
the reason to use a 100 amps or 120 amps alt or whatever more than that is just because you will get the best charge at iddle posible, but I bet won't use EVER the full alt capacity on your car. really on a basically stock car 78-80 amps alt is SIMPLY ENOUGH. EVEN if you get an ocasional discharge reading, nothing wrong with that.You'll find mostly of cars have a power decay with everything electrical working, just that they don't have an ammeter to take note about LOL and in mostly of these cases NOT EVEN A VOLTIMETER, just the idiot light what just say to you the alt is working because is not getting the circuit closed for a while stator is captioning magnetic field, but is not telling you is enough for your car or if batt is being discharged.
NOW THE QUESTION...
will the parallel wire running from alt post splice into the new fusebox black wire or directly to ammeter ?
THATS WHY I would need to know why this wire runs to painless fusebox.
Maybe just to get this line fuse protected, what woudl mean doesn't arrive to somekind of buss bar ?
if so, you can duplicate the black wire running to fuse box, but splicing directly to ammeter with an in line fuse, like the one it could be at fuse box ( if thats the reason of course )
this last is very important BECAUSE all the load will run directly to the fusebox, and will get a new weak point now there.
how many buss bars do you have on back of new fuse box ? which wires arrives ? If my logic dictates right, you should have just 2 buss bars, one getting orange wire from ign switch and the other one getting red from batt ?
then some individual fuses not linked to any buss bar, like the ign coil one, or maybe in fact the cluster lighting ? the alt exciter ( if you were using ), and stuff not labeled like needing acc or batt sources
lot of what I said is thinking outloud
With a Charger born in Chrysler assembly plant in Valencia, Venezuela
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Re: Wire guage
[Re: NachoRT74]
#618677
03/03/10 12:29 AM
03/03/10 12:29 AM
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,096 Valencia, España
NachoRT74
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One thing more...
with all this job, it looks you would ( if you still didn't do it ) get rid of the stock main splice, because it looks the new fuse box already works like a main splice, with the wires to feed lights, ign switch, alt, batt arriving to... and everything "fused"
With a Charger born in Chrysler assembly plant in Valencia, Venezuela
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Re: Wire guage
[Re: 70duster340]
#618678
03/03/10 12:46 AM
03/03/10 12:46 AM
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,096 Valencia, España
NachoRT74
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Quote:
Also, should I hook up the gauges to the terminal on the fuseblock that is designated for the gauges? It's a fused terminal.
Mopars used also very often a fuse to protect the gauges. Is a fuse what feeds the voltage limiter. Talking about 3rd gen chargers at least, we got the standart cluster gauges feeded from a fuse not linked on a buss bar, using a separated fuse what gets the source from the blue ( RUN position ) wire at ign switch, HOWEVER SAME YEARS, SAME CARS, but with rallye cluster got the gauges ( limiter ) source directly from ACC side of fuse box ( buss bar ), sharing some fuse with some other acc.
would need to check if some Mopar didn't use any fuse to gauges
you can run it or not as you wish. Definitelly won't hurt use the fuse to feed the limiter to gauges.
becarefull. DON'T RUN THE WIRE TO GAUGES DIRECTLY FROM FUSE BOX... needs to get first the limiter, then the gauges
With a Charger born in Chrysler assembly plant in Valencia, Venezuela
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Re: Wire guage
[Re: NachoRT74]
#618679
03/03/10 11:36 AM
03/03/10 11:36 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,443
70duster340
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Now I have some new questions. If you have a wiring diagram handy for a 1971 Valiant, the question is, which wire powers the headlight switch? I have a pink and a black with a white tracer that appear to both carry current to the switch. Also, which wire should I use to attach to the ignition coil terminal on the fuse block? Should it be the large brown wire, or the dark blue wire? I believe the brown wire is the bypass for the ballast resistor to the coil to start up the engine. Sorrt for all the questions, but my wiring of the fuseblock seems to have been a bit incorrect, and from hearing from you, it has been brough to my attention. I need to fix this before I install the wiring harness and fuse block, so all the help you can offer is greatly appreciated!!!
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Re: Wire guage
[Re: 70duster340]
#618680
03/03/10 12:23 PM
03/03/10 12:23 PM
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,096 Valencia, España
NachoRT74
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I don't really need the 71 diagram since all colors all years are the same in all bodies specially for those years.
yes, headlight switch gets two sources. One is unfused directly from alt splice ( as I "diagramed" )being black ( dunno remember if traced, but thick ) and one is fused coming from fuse batt side. Wire is pink.
The direct unfused black source feeds ONLY headlights beams. The pink wire feeds parking/sidemarkers/dimmer(cluster) and comes froma fuse on stock wiring. The original fuse also did feed the glovebox light and some acc constant sources like courtesy lights, map lights
Up to mids 70s Yes brown wire from ign switch bypasses the ballast on Start moment to max power on startup moment. Dark blue is what feeds the coil THROUGHT THE BALLAST on RUN moment, alt field, regulator AND CHOKE.
On lates 70s the ballast bypass was moved to starter relay and is closer to Painless wiring diagram
will draw some other diagrams about specifically those circuits paying attention on the 71 valiant diagram
With a Charger born in Chrysler assembly plant in Valencia, Venezuela
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Re: Wire guage
[Re: NachoRT74]
#618681
03/03/10 01:09 PM
03/03/10 01:09 PM
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,096 Valencia, España
NachoRT74
master
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master
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,096
Valencia, España
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ok... firts. as far I can tell and already stated, it looks the splice on alt wire will dissapear with the fusebox of course
With a Charger born in Chrysler assembly plant in Valencia, Venezuela
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