I receieved this petcock from a retired Chrysler assemblyline worker. I have checked a few survivors and noted the bare petcocks as opposed to black painted ones you so often see in restorations. I would like to know if there are any folks out there with survivors they can reference to see if my findings are consistant with their cars. It seems to me it would be pretty difficult to accurately restore this piece with proper finishes as pictured.

Maybe Bob from Glen-Ray will chime in. I know he has the answer your looking for. This guy knows all the in and out of this topic.

Mike,
Before the petcock is installed in the radiator it looks nice like that one. I had those reproduced with the correct markings because all others had the ears on upside down. Unfortunatly, that is the last time they are shiney. They get painted with the radiator assembly. Think of it this way. Why would Blackstone, Fedders or Long put the radiator together with a dummy plug then take it back out to install a different plug after they test, dry and paint the radiator? The cars you have seen with a shiney plugs where either warranty replacements or just replaced with whatever. Would be nice if they didn't get painted but they are just boring old black.

Bob Schirmer
Glen-ray Radiators
1.800.537.3775
1.715.842.3352

Here is a picture of the one's Bob had made

Can you clarify what finish's were not on the valve? The valve was not painted black with the radiator, bare brass/bare non plated steel or bare brass/plated steel.

How did the valve present itself when installed?

The OEM petcock in the OEM radiator of my 69 RR appears to have been black since build.

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I believe it said "hello radiator, lets get this hole plugged up"

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Bob,
I like that one! HA HA!!!

Ray

Thanks!

hi mike

i had done some reaearch on this awhile ago, and from the untouched and or hardly touched survivors ive researched the petcocks werent painted

when i saw this thread i was getting ready to head out of town and didnt have time to post right away.

also, going by what dave w posted, that if they had the petcocks on the assembly line, the petcocks couldnt have been painted + why were they then on the assembly line.

i could try to apply logic to support my findings and state that the petcocks werent installed due to the possibility of them getting broken during shipping and handling, but i dont know that for sure as i wasnt there and its just a theory.

after reading bobs posts it made me think maybe i had not researched properly, so i called frank badalson, he has been smart enough to have been researching and documenting survivors for many years and has always been very helpful with detail issues.

frank has 2 survivors at his shop now, an T/A and a 70 coronet iirc, he checked both of those and some pictures he had of other survivors and all of the petcocks were natural and on manual trans cars the block off plugs were all natural.

i ran by him what bob had posted and he said that even though bob is trying to apply logic that you cant always do that and doing so will get you in trouble sometimes when applying that to methods that were done back then.

he also said that so many components from mfg's had plastic plugs in threaded holes. then the plastic plugs were removed and an end user put their own fitting or whatever in there.

he mentioned the dana rears for an example, he said all of the threaded holes had those plastic plugs, but the one at the nine oclock position never got used, the plug stayed and got painted black because it did not get used. thats not theory, its fact.

i asked frank if he would jump on the thread and post.
he said he wouldnt because of the BS that incurs if you disagree with certain board members and therefore get attacked because of it. so its not worth it.

thats a real shame, because frank does have an awful lot to offer.

anyway, ive attached some pics of a 3000 mile e-body survivor that i happen to have pics of that area of the car

another

quote: [i asked frank if he would jump on the thread and post.
he said he wouldnt because of the BS that incurs if you disagree with certain board members and therefore get attacked because of it. so its not worth it.]

I can relate...

Tony,
I actually did'n use logic(you know me), I got that information from the man who was the manager of Blackstone (18398,20446,61018) back in the 60's and 70's. I'm going to contact him to see if he remembers this conversation with me. May take a while to get a hold of him but I will post when I find out.

Bob

Hi Bob

Thanks for chiming back in

thats great that you have access to somebody like that.

please ask him to be clear on petcocks + fittings not plugs in the holes, i understand that it was 40 years ago now + may be hard to recall at this point.

not to bring this up just because it supports the theory that the petcocks + plugs were natural, but why would the petcocks be on the assembly line if they were already installed

maybe Dave W can come back with some more details

thanks again
tony

Paul + Rick

you guys are very knowledgible and i love when we have informative discussions about the cars + parts.

hopefully everyone appreciates what you have to offer and realizes that even if we dont agree on something, that we can still discuss it without attacking or taking it to a personal level. for god sakes, its only old cars were talking about here and we are all on the same side.

we are all here trying to learn and educate,
and unless an old assembly line worker or old part vendor chimes in with pictures or documents from back in the day its just left up to us archeologists to figure out

Hi Mr. T,
I know I'm not the "Dave W" you were asking for (He is probably still healing form the beating his brother gave him for publicly admitting that he that was stealing from his employer/Chrysler ) but I thought I could add a little light on the subject. The original drain plug on my Valiant was painted as a unit. As with many areas concerning Chrysler assembly and parts, I don't think that there will be a line in the sand regarding this subject matter. One thing to remember is that Chrysler didn't manufacture the large majority of parts they used to build their cars. They were basically a General Contractor that located and collected the subsidized components that it took to construct their vehicles. Concerning the radiators, you would almost have to conclude that someone in the engineering department had the common sense to have assembly line parts manufactured as "complete" units. Take a wiring harnesses for instance! Can you imagine the mayhem it would have been if the assembly line workers would have been responsible for putting the wires in their connecting plugs or for having to wrap the wires together in order to "complete" the harness? The same logic was probably used for radiators. Since they were manufactured by a subsidized firm (commissioned by Chrysler) you would have to assume that they were built as complete as possible. They most likely had those small pieces already in place. Each work station had roughly 60-90 seconds to complete their task. It wouldn't make much sense for a small component (that could easily be installed by the original manufacturer) to be left out and the line worker be responsible for putting it in place.

Like most manufacturing facilities, these drain plugs were probably "stocked" at or near the "radiator assembly station" just in case one was damaged during installation and needed to be quickly replaced. It wouldn't make sense for the assembly line to be shut down because a "petcock" was damaged during assembly. In the end I think you will conclude that both ways are actually correct.

hi Dave

i didnt take the risk of spelling Dave Weiss' last name for fear of mispelling it, like I probably just did.

i really really agree with and totally can see you point in reference to what i copied of your post below. it makes sense to have some fittings on the assy line as damage replacements if needed.

id even go as far as saying that chrysler wouldnt want to have assy workers installing threaded fittings on the assy line, but that doesnt hold water as the assy line workers do have to install the transmission lines + fittings

my superbird that has 18,000 miles is very original. it has original plug wires, battery cables, heater hoses, etc. the only items that were replaced were the battery, tires and exhaust. but due to the fact that the car wasnt driven for an extended period of time during a point in its life the radiator clogged and therefore was serviced and repainted, and the master cylinder was rebuilt. so i have found it hard to use all surviviors as a reference for the petcock detail as others like my car have had the radiator serviced due to their lack of use at a point in its life.

i wish there was a source for good color underhood detail shots of cars fresh off of the assembly line, wouldnt that make life easy.

id like to find some untouched 4-speed cars that exhibit the block off fittings, as there wouldnt have been a need to replace them due to damage, so whatever finish is found on those fittings may be more helpful to this issue.

ill make it a point to start looking at those.

dave, im starting to like your last sentence more and more

Quote:

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Like most manufacturing facilities, these drain plugs were probably "stocked" at or near the "radiator assembly station" just in case one was damaged during installation and needed to be quickly replaced. It wouldn't make sense for the assembly line to be shut down because a "petcock" was damaged during assembly. In the end I think you will conclude that both ways are actually correct.

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Well said Tony... My '68 Hemi roadrunner petcock came unpainted but like everything mopar, never say never.

Still got them old NOS '69 roadrunner wheel disc I sold you ages ago.. as one mopar magazine put it "for a song"? I don't remember you singing to me??

Ask me what I paid for them..