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Re: Thinking About Upping My CI [Re: hemi-itis] #612568 02/14/10 10:56 AM 02/14/10 10:56 AM
Joined: Nov 2004 Posts: 3,619 Norwich CT USA Defbob master
Defbob master Joined: Nov 2004 Posts: 3,619 Norwich CT USA	Add more cam and wind that baby to the moon!

Re: Thinking About Upping My CI [Re: MR_P_BODY] #612569 02/14/10 11:25 AM 02/14/10 11:25 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 16,930 NC 440Jim I Live Here
440Jim I Live Here Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 16,930 NC	Quote: I'm thinking of also going to a glide which I have... Right now its a 3.79 stroke with a 4.125 bore and I turn it in the 8200 range (this is a 405ci) Although I love my 727, I really think your application would like the PG. They do use less power to drive them, and I don't think the launch is your problem (looking for horsepower, not torque). I think you will see more MPH with the glide. What cam duration/lift and rocker ratio are you running now? And are you thinking the same duration at 0.050", but a more aggressive lobe profile with more lift?

Re: Thinking About Upping My CI [Re: Defbob] #612570 02/14/10 11:49 AM 02/14/10 11:49 AM
Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 3,695 nc E emarine01 master
emarine01 master E Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 3,695 nc	It depends on how much bux you want to spend, you will find power with a cam maxed out for your current rig, I was impressed with just the rocker ratio change on my intake on my current set up, The 4 inch arm sounds like fun but I think there is a balance in piston speed vs reliability when ya start pushin 4 inch with high rpm potential, save the cubes for something heavy

Re: Thinking About Upping My CI [Re: emarine01] #612571 02/14/10 12:00 PM 02/14/10 12:00 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 32,394 Q Quicktree I Win
Quicktree I Win Q Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 32,394	I wouldn't do anything until your health gets better or you find a driver. or your just plain bored

Re: Thinking About Upping My CI [Re: Quicktree] #612572 02/14/10 12:16 PM 02/14/10 12:16 PM
Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 3,635 Oakland, MI D dizuster master
dizuster master D Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 3,635 Oakland, MI	Mike, that is exactly my combo, but mine is a tall deck block (9.502" to be exact). I decided to do the 440" deal because I liked the idea of getting the RPM down. Just an all around better idea for lower RPM mantainance. I'm gonna try to get mine on the dyno this year, so we'll see what it makes. Ryan did the heads (372cfm@.700" and still climbing) The cam is a 270/274@.050" .752"/.766". I'm guessing it should make peak hp around ~7200 or so. Like I said, nice low, easy RPM...

Re: Thinking About Upping My CI [Re: 440Jim] #612573 02/14/10 01:27 PM 02/14/10 01:27 PM
Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI MR_P_BODY OP Master
MR_P_BODY OP Master Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI	Quote: Quote: I'm thinking of also going to a glide which I have... Right now its a 3.79 stroke with a 4.125 bore and I turn it in the 8200 range (this is a 405ci) Although I love my 727, I really think your application would like the PG. They do use less power to drive them, and I don't think the launch is your problem (looking for horsepower, not torque). I think you will see more MPH with the glide. What cam duration/lift and rocker ratio are you running now? And are you thinking the same duration at 0.050", but a more aggressive lobe profile with more lift? Jim, right now its a 276/282 @.050 with 1.6 rockers

Re: Thinking About Upping My CI [Re: MR_P_BODY] #612574 02/14/10 02:23 PM 02/14/10 02:23 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 4,091 Shelby Twp. Mi HardcoreB master
HardcoreB master Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 4,091 Shelby Twp. Mi	I say you pull that baby out and take her to dyno headers and all! This way you can sort out most of your problems in short order. Maybe just move the cam (timing) and dial the new carbs fuel curve etc...Post your findings here, it'll be fun.

Re: Thinking About Upping My CI [Re: HardcoreB] #612575 02/14/10 07:20 PM 02/14/10 07:20 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 8,547 State College, PA RyanJ moparts member
RyanJ moparts member Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 8,547 State College, PA	This is dyno sheet off a 439" W9 (4.0 stroke, 4.185 bore) @ 14:1 with more intake port size than you have (about 2.9" CSA, 286 CC SDSS Hand port), & a very similar bracket cam to what you have now. Off top of my head cam in this motor was 274/280 @ .050" ~.748" lift on 111 in @ 107. Just posted so you can see where it made power RPM wise.... I put same cam in Brian Smith's 417 W8 motor..... (3.79" X 4.185" bore) We did'nt dyno his, but it's been 146 MPH @ over 3100 lbs so.... must make some power. His heads would be similar to yours size/flow wise. ~2.75" CSA Going to use that cam in a 496" BB GM I am currently working on for local buddy.... Hope to make 850+ with it. It's a good all around 1.7:1 rocker grind for a bracket car. I doubt you will see much change re-grinding cam in that Chapman head motor. Lift does'nt seem to do a whole lot on the W8/9's.... The Nascar truck W8 stuff was in the .680's & I have ran everything from .660's to .940's & never saw much difference in power. Mid .700's seems to work well & not be hard on parts. 5804522-440W9PULL16.jpg (46 downloads)

Re: Thinking About Upping My CI [Re: RyanJ] #612576 02/14/10 08:54 PM 02/14/10 08:54 PM
Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI MR_P_BODY OP Master
MR_P_BODY OP Master Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI	Quote: This is dyno sheet off a 439" W9 (4.0 stroke, 4.185 bore) @ 14:1 with more intake port size than you have (about 2.9" CSA, 286 CC SDSS Hand port), & a very similar bracket cam to what you have now. Off top of my head cam in this motor was 274/280 @ .050" ~.748" lift on 111 in @ 107. Just posted so you can see where it made power RPM wise.... I put same cam in Brian Smith's 417 W8 motor..... (3.79" X 4.185" bore) We did'nt dyno his, but it's been 146 MPH @ over 3100 lbs so.... must make some power. His heads would be similar to yours size/flow wise. ~2.75" CSA Going to use that cam in a 496" BB GM I am currently working on for local buddy.... Hope to make 850+ with it. It's a good all around 1.7:1 rocker grind for a bracket car. I doubt you will see much change re-grinding cam in that Chapman head motor. Lift does'nt seem to do a whole lot on the W8/9's.... The Nascar truck W8 stuff was in the .680's & I have ran everything from .660's to .940's & never saw much difference in power. Mid .700's seems to work well & not be hard on parts. Thanks Ryan.... right now I only have a .688 lift at the valve, thats why I wanted to re-grind it to get at least .750 at the valve.... I guess if I wanted to is just bore it to 4.185 with the same stroke. I also have a back up cam blank for a 48* so I guess I could have it ground

Re: Thinking About Upping My CI [Re: MR_P_BODY] #612577 02/14/10 09:04 PM 02/14/10 09:04 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 8,547 State College, PA RyanJ moparts member
RyanJ moparts member Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 8,547 State College, PA	That's normally what I shoot for on a W8/9 motor like that, mid .700's, just like dizusters... Does'nt require killer valvetrain & seem to make good power. Bigger bore would probably help more than the stroke would, & then maybe trick out the new pistons/ring pack if your old stuff was more "mild" & pick up some more HP there...

Re: Thinking About Upping My CI [Re: RyanJ] #612578 02/15/10 12:05 AM 02/15/10 12:05 AM
Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI MR_P_BODY OP Master
MR_P_BODY OP Master Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI	Quote: That's normally what I shoot for on a W8/9 motor like that, mid .700's, just like dizusters... Does'nt require killer valvetrain & seem to make good power. Bigger bore would probably help more than the stroke would, & then maybe trick out the new pistons/ring pack if your old stuff was more "mild" & pick up some more HP there... Thats what I'm thinking also... I believe the small bore is hurting it... shrouds the big valve too much and then the lack of lift

Re: Thinking About Upping My CI [Re: RyanJ] #612579 02/15/10 09:15 AM 02/15/10 09:15 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 4,091 Shelby Twp. Mi HardcoreB master
HardcoreB master Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 4,091 Shelby Twp. Mi	Quote: This is dyno sheet off a 439" W9 (4.0 stroke, 4.185 bore) @ 14:1 with more intake port size than you have (about 2.9" CSA, 286 CC SDSS Hand port), & a very similar bracket cam to what you have now. Off top of my head cam in this motor was 274/280 @ .050" ~.748" lift on 111 in @ 107. Just posted so you can see where it made power RPM wise.... I doubt you will see much change re-grinding cam in that Chapman head motor. Lift does'nt seem to do a whole lot on the W8/9's.... The Nascar truck W8 stuff was in the .680's & I have ran everything from .660's to .940's & never saw much difference in power. Mid .700's seems to work well & not be hard on parts. Good revelant info. In the MOROSO HP calculator thread you had a conservatively calculated 610 FWHP. I am sure you have at least 90 HP left in that combination of parts your currently using. That alone will carry your car DEEP into the eights. Is it in the driveline? the tune? That is why I suggested going to dyno. As Ryan mentioned, I doubt you'll find much HP in a regrind. From anything I've seen of the W9's, they don't seem to have the physical integrity to support the valvetrain loads that the W8's will.

Re: Thinking About Upping My CI [Re: HardcoreB] #612580 02/15/10 11:46 PM 02/15/10 11:46 PM
Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI MR_P_BODY OP Master
MR_P_BODY OP Master Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI	Quote: Quote: This is dyno sheet off a 439" W9 (4.0 stroke, 4.185 bore) @ 14:1 with more intake port size than you have (about 2.9" CSA, 286 CC SDSS Hand port), & a very similar bracket cam to what you have now. Off top of my head cam in this motor was 274/280 @ .050" ~.748" lift on 111 in @ 107. Just posted so you can see where it made power RPM wise.... I doubt you will see much change re-grinding cam in that Chapman head motor. Lift does'nt seem to do a whole lot on the W8/9's.... The Nascar truck W8 stuff was in the .680's & I have ran everything from .660's to .940's & never saw much difference in power. Mid .700's seems to work well & not be hard on parts. Good revelant info. In the MOROSO HP calculator thread you had a conservatively calculated 610 FWHP. I am sure you have at least 90 HP left in that combination of parts your currently using. That alone will carry your car DEEP into the eights. Is it in the driveline? the tune? That is why I suggested going to dyno. As Ryan mentioned, I doubt you'll find much HP in a regrind. From anything I've seen of the W9's, they don't seem to have the physical integrity to support the valvetrain loads that the W8's will. Well I think what I'm going to do IF the funds are there is to just bore it and go with the 4.185" pistons and look into a regrind to get it up to .750 lift at the valve.... tune up the heads... if I can come up with the coin I would like to put it on a dyno. The first things I will do when I get home will be to get the car into the shop and do a leak down (when I built it, it was less than 3%) then pull the engine.... hopefully there isnt much snow when I get back home

Re: Thinking About Upping My CI [Re: MR_P_BODY] #612581 02/16/10 08:22 PM 02/16/10 08:22 PM
Joined: Sep 2004 Posts: 122 St. Clair Shores, MI J JohnM member
JohnM member J Joined: Sep 2004 Posts: 122 St. Clair Shores, MI	There's a few inches on the grass, all roads are clear & dry. No snow predicted for the next week or so. (Subject to change without notice, of course.)

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