BB 400 Ideas
#585310
01/17/10 01:16 PM
01/17/10 01:16 PM
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 200 Hellertown Pa
panzerray
OP
enthusiast
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OP
enthusiast
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 200
Hellertown Pa
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Hey all, My daughter is looking to build a 400 for her 72 SWB truck; we are looking for some ideas for the motor build, the 400 is a 72 Steel crank engine out of a 4 sp RR , its going to need to be bored and decked , now she can't stroke it only an over bore .Truck is manual brake and steering, and a 4speed She's looking for something on the edge of street ability single 4 bb. Any ideas on heads (906,452,516) she got herself into a bet with a guy who has a 396/402 BB chevy C10 swb truck and they're going to race each other at In June to see who's quicker, both trucks have to be able to travel 35 miles to island dragway Both have agrees not to spend more then 5k, and each must use period corect block and heads. all Ideas are welcome
Converted Ford guy ...I've seen the Light.
D14BD6,D14BD8,D13AN9,W14BD8(Macho)WS23L7
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Re: BB 400 Ideas
[Re: dodgeboy11]
#585316
01/17/10 11:27 PM
01/17/10 11:27 PM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,319 Puyallup, WA
StealthWedge67
master
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master
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,319
Puyallup, WA
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You can build a pretty nasty 451 for under 5k. & it will make substantially more power than just about any stock stroke 400. Having a forged RB crank cut down is only going to cost a few hundred more than cleaning up her existing crank. I'm assembling one now, and have a total of $4200 into it, including stealth heads! (BTW, I don't know that there is such a thing as a forged steel crank 400? I thought all 400's were cast crank motors)
Last edited by GEnsrud; 01/17/10 11:33 PM.
LemonWedge - Street heavy / Strip ready - 11.07 @ 120
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Re: BB 400 Ideas
[Re: panzerray]
#585317
01/17/10 11:47 PM
01/17/10 11:47 PM
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 156 Pittsburgh, PA
SmokeyBurnout 67
member
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member
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 156
Pittsburgh, PA
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My father has the 400 motor build to perfection...a 451 is his speciality. 9.69 @139mph. Specializing in MOPARs- street to strip. Contact Tim at BOWMAN PERFORMANCE in Export PA 724.325.4352 bowmanperf@yahoo.comGood Luck and I hope your daughter blows the doors off that Chevy!
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Re: BB 400 Ideas
[Re: panzerray]
#585319
01/18/10 05:15 PM
01/18/10 05:15 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,318 Manitoba, Canada
DaytonaTurbo
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,318
Manitoba, Canada
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Set of CNC ported 440source stealth heads, 11:1 compression, MP.557 solid cam, edelbrock victor intake, converter that flashes to at least 4500 and you will rev that sucker to near 7000rpm.
If you're dead set on running stock heads, that will be your biggest bottleneck. Stock mopar heads just don't flow and the cost of getting them ported will quickly equal the price of a set of aftermarket heads. But if iron heads is what it's going to be, I'd be getting some work done on them by Dwayne (moparts member fast68plymouth) of Porter Racing Heads. He's a straight up guy and would be my first stop when working with iron heads.
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Re: BB 400 Ideas
[Re: panzerray]
#585320
01/18/10 10:18 PM
01/18/10 10:18 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 524 Mesa, AZ
Bill_T
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 524
Mesa, AZ
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MP max wedge heads maybe. Iron and period correct. Since you are not going stroker, you won't need much $ for the rest of the build. Not sure if it would really be any benefit over the stock port window. closed chamber might help with the compression. You could offset grind that 400 steel crank to 3.52 for an extra twenty cubes. Unlikely your GM buddy would be any the wiser.
This space not for rent.
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Re: BB 400 Ideas
[Re: Bill_T]
#585321
01/18/10 11:47 PM
01/18/10 11:47 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 871 WA 98043
thecarfarmer
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 871
WA 98043
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First off, congrats to the OP for raising a daughter RIGHT! I'd use a tunnel ram, especially in a truck where there's room in there. Unless your daughter has specifically agreed to 1X4bbl, she's leaving performance on the table (IMO). I don't know which TR intake will work with a MW head, but someone here will. And a roller cam is going to make more power than flat tappet. There are a number of guys on this board who'd be more experienced than myself at picking a grind; I'd expect to use something similar to what a super stock big block would run if this were to be a 'no prisoners' thing. With the budget putting a ceiling on this thing, the Herbert valvetrain stuff might be pretty good. I'm running their lifters (in a pickup truck, with a tunnel-rammed "B" engine, natch), and the few dozen hours of run time I have on 'em have been okay. Hard to work names like T&D and Jesel into the $5000 engine. Picking pistons for a buddy's low $$$ 440 recently, we went with KB forged, because they were lighter than anything else in our price range, and were attractively priced to boot! If I were building this motor myself, I'd look into a 7.1" rod w/ chev journals. The longer rod will help make the head 'look' better. Less rod angularity means that the peak piston speed during the middle of the travel won't be quite as high. So, it is slightly more forgiving of ports that don't have a lot of size. You can buy 'em w/ ARP2000 bolts from RPM under part no. LG3-7100H for a few bucks less than 440Source sells 'em w/ the 8740 bolts. Plus, it frees up about .175" of crankpin diameter if a little offset grinding is desired. -Bill
Last edited by thecarfarmer; 01/18/10 11:50 PM.
Seduce the attractive, and charm the rest.
******
489 C.I.D., roller cam, aftermarket heads, tunnel ram, stock '54 Dodge rear axle assembly: which of these doesn't belong?
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Re: BB 400 Ideas
[Re: thecarfarmer]
#585322
01/19/10 01:31 AM
01/19/10 01:31 AM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,419 Kalispell Mt.
HotRodDave
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,419
Kalispell Mt.
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Another vote for the long rods and following the rules. Block will need a minimum of bore and hone $200 383 steel crank fresh and ready to run could be had for $200 Re-worked 440 rods for $200 KB pistons are what $ now 3-400 ? Rings, bearings, gaskets theres another $300 Balancing $200 So your going to have mabey $1500 in the short block. That leaves $3500 for the top end, can max wedge top end be done for that much? Do you have a carb or is that another expense? If so you can build a heck of a 850+ CFM thermo-quad for $50 thease days. Unless someone knows a good deal sitting around on a set of max-wedges you will probably want a 915 head ported by dwayne or someone else and that is likely to cost around $1000-$1500 ready to go, $300 for a new intake like a victor? We could say $2000 for a period correct topend. Then for a cam you will spend a couple hundred for a good roller cam, $500 for roller lifters $100 for pushrods. $300 for some good rockers. You could spend a grand on a good valve train. Now you have $500 for headers, distributer/ignition, plug wires, windage tray... Don't forget to find any spare weight you can chuck out easily, then go spank that ugly old chevy
I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!
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Re: BB 400 Ideas
[Re: DaytonaTurbo]
#585323
01/19/10 02:10 AM
01/19/10 02:10 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,421 Balt. Md
383man
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,421
Balt. Md
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Quote:
Set of CNC ported 440source stealth heads, 11:1 compression, MP.557 solid cam, edelbrock victor intake, converter that flashes to at least 4500 and you will rev that sucker to near 7000rpm.
If you're dead set on running stock heads, that will be your biggest bottleneck. Stock mopar heads just don't flow and the cost of getting them ported will quickly equal the price of a set of aftermarket heads. But if iron heads is what it's going to be, I'd be getting some work done on them by Dwayne (moparts member fast68plymouth) of Porter Racing Heads. He's a straight up guy and would be my first stop when working with iron heads.
Thats very close to the 400 in my sons Dart. Stock stroke .030 over 400 with KB flattop pistons and Eddy heads cut for 10.6 comp with the KB pistons. MP .557 cam , Eddy RPM intake , 750 DP and 2" CPPA headers. He only has 3.91's in his Dart but he is shifting it about 6700 as he says it feels like its still pulling up to 6700 and even more. He has run 11.40's @ 117 in his 3550 lb Dart and it runs fine on 92 or 93 pump. That short stroke likes to rev alot more then my 440. Ron
Last edited by 383man; 01/19/10 02:12 AM.
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Re: BB 400 Ideas
[Re: StealthWedge67]
#585324
01/19/10 02:52 AM
01/19/10 02:52 AM
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,025 Las Vegas, NV
dodgeboy11
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,025
Las Vegas, NV
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Quote:
(BTW, I don't know that there is such a thing as a forged steel crank 400? I thought all 400's were cast crank motors)
There is if you wanted one with a standard transmission. They didn't make cast cranks for big blocks with a pilot bushing hole. So they substituted forged cranks. I took a 400 out of a 74 or 75 dodge 3/4 ton 2wd. Motor was bone stock. Forged steel crankshaft with a 4 speed. Everything standard.
Now that longer rod on a 3.38" stroke is not going to make for a very responsive motor down low. You should, in my opinion, talk a little sense into your daughter on the cubic inch limits she's imposing. To build an engine for one race is ridiculous. Build the truck for driving. The 451 is the way to go. The short rod 451 most especially as it will make the best bottom end power. As for hooking up, that's what caltracs are for. Long rods are great for boosted applications, but it isn't really the thing to do in most N/A setups. Getting the rod ratio in the 1.7-1.75 range is what you want to do, and you're starting with 1.88. 6.535 divided by 3.75 and you've got 1.74:1. Gotta quit thinking like we're living in the 70's. I know Smokey Yunick said that you want a rod ratio as close to 2.0:1 as possible, but if that were true today, dontcha think they'd be utilizing that gem of knowledge in small racing circles like nextel cup?
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Re: BB 400 Ideas
[Re: dodgeboy11]
#585325
01/19/10 03:24 AM
01/19/10 03:24 AM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,318 Manitoba, Canada
DaytonaTurbo
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,318
Manitoba, Canada
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Quote:
Quote:
(BTW, I don't know that there is such a thing as a forged steel crank 400? I thought all 400's were cast crank motors)
There is if you wanted one with a standard transmission. They didn't make cast cranks for big blocks with a pilot bushing hole. So they substituted forged cranks. I took a 400 out of a 74 or 75 dodge 3/4 ton 2wd. Motor was bone stock. Forged steel crankshaft with a 4 speed. Everything standard.
Are you sure about that? I know there are factory external balance big block flywheels out there.
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Re: BB 400 Ideas
[Re: DaytonaTurbo]
#585327
01/19/10 01:08 PM
01/19/10 01:08 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 684 St. Charles, MO.
Slingshot383
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 684
St. Charles, MO.
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A forged 383 crank has all the same demensions as the 400 cast crank.
1994 Undercover Chassis 125" altered
stack injected big block, soon blown and injected
Member of The Torque and Recoil Club
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