torque per cube?
#578427
01/10/10 01:03 PM
01/10/10 01:03 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,019 Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart
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I am curious what some of the best packages produce for torque per cube. I and I think a lot of other guys would like to see how the various heads work, and what is possible. Non mopar combos wellcome for comparison. Please give head type, induction, cam type (specs also), usage. Thanks, Greg
Last edited by gregsdart; 01/10/10 03:11 PM.
8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
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Re: torque per cube?
[Re: gregsdart]
#578429
01/10/10 07:32 PM
01/10/10 07:32 PM
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,169 Virginia Beach, VA
Old School
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super stock
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my 580" made 790 ftlbs. 14-1cr 440-3 w/ 1120 dominator 572-13 365 cc 388 cfm @.800" solid roller .800" [Email]290@.050[/Email] it's in a street car,was built for torque.
Last edited by Old School; 01/10/10 07:32 PM.
68 cuda formula S 588" bb 5sp 70 CUDA CONVERT 500" 5SP (SUBLIME) 70 CUDA CONVERT 500" 5SP (PLUMCRAZY):TOO MUCH HORSEPOWER, IS ALMOST ENOUGH!
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Re: torque per cube?
[Re: Old School]
#578430
01/10/10 11:26 PM
01/10/10 11:26 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,424 Kalispell Mt.
HotRodDave
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I don't know if this is acurate or not but I have heard from a couple different engine builders that if your goal is the biggest number of tq you should run a cam around 236@.050 but they state (obviously)that this will vary some from one combo to the other. For a bunch of examples of high specific TQ look at the last few engine masters competitions, very interesting stuff in there
I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!
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Re: torque per cube?
[Re: Old School]
#578431
01/10/10 11:37 PM
01/10/10 11:37 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,303 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
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I Win
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Posts: 43,303
Bend,OR USA
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440 block 4.38x3.91 stroke 12.8 to 1 comp. ratio,B1-BS heads M.W. port, tunnel ram with two 750 D.P, Crane solid roller cam 273 @ .050 721.8 HP @7000 RPM and 615.4 ft. lbs.@ 5400 RPM. My 518 CI low deck pump gas motor, 4.375 bore, 4.300 stroke, 10.29 to 1 comp. ratio. Eddy RPM 440 size cnc standard size port, six pak intake & carbs. 718 hp at 5800 rpm, 744 ft. lbs at 4500 rpm. This motor with a 2.50 stroke crank, 9.25 to 1 comp. ratio and ported 906 heads made 612 hp at 5600 rpm with 644 ft. lbs at 4000 rpm. It seems on the pump gas motors I make the lower comp. ratio motors make more torque than HP. The N/A higher comp. ratio race motors on race gas make more HP than torque
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: torque per cube?
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#578432
01/11/10 02:12 AM
01/11/10 02:12 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,384 Las Vegas
Al_Alguire
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I Live Here
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Well my junk aint gonna impress anyone at 775ft/lbs....For sure. Interesting ot see what we get here.
"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."
"It's never wrong to do the right thing"
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Re: torque per cube?
[Re: Al_Alguire]
#578433
01/11/10 02:29 AM
01/11/10 02:29 AM
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,025 Las Vegas, NV
dodgeboy11
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super stock
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Just dynoed a 555" bb chev. 11:1 CR with AFR 325 CNC'd chambers only. Short runner went 335 cfm, didn't flow the long one. Decent GM dual plane, solid roller with, I believe, 256/264 on a 112 with 650'ish lift. Pump gas, finally squeaked 653 hp @ 5800 rpm and peaked 680 ft lbs @ 4200 rpm. 3500-5700 it never dropped below 600 ft lbs. Going into a '69 corvette. Oughta be a halfshaft bustin' beast. If it ever gets traction. Also built a 408 mopar. 11.5:1 compression with Indy oval port heads that I ported on. 570 hp @ 6200 rpm. Hydraulic roller that really is too small for this engine, but it'll make a nice little package that shouldn't require much maintenance. Torque was 539 ft lbs @ 5000-5100 rpm. 500 ft lbs from 4300-5900. This was on 110 leaded, but only because I was afraid of loading the motor that hard on the dyno on pump fuel.
Last edited by dodgeboy11; 01/11/10 02:35 AM.
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Re: torque per cube?
[Re: Bigcube]
#578435
01/11/10 12:12 PM
01/11/10 12:12 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,019 Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart
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Thanks for the inputs guys. It is interesting to see real world results, to see kinda what happens at various cam configurations, headflow vs cubes, etc. What originally got me to thinking up this post is wondering where is the best range to build the most torque per cube, and what effects it all. Stuff like induction ram tuning, exhaust tuning, rpm, etc. I was looking over the engine masters article in Mopar muscle ,got a lot out of that. The winner almost beat the roller cam entrys in torque production with a flat tappet cam and a tunnelram setup. The flat tappet motors didn't make as much hp, but as shown by the winner, built some very respctable torque. The winner was making 1.204 ft lbs per cube, the best roller combo 1.24. The differance in combos, the flat tappet combo had the tr intake and 452 cubes, the roller combo had more cubes (500), single/dominator combo.
Last edited by gregsdart; 01/11/10 12:26 PM.
8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
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Re: torque per cube?
[Re: gregsdart]
#578436
01/11/10 01:30 PM
01/11/10 01:30 PM
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,213 Minn
SportF
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pro stock
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Minn
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I am kinda curious why you would build for torque, assuming a race or even a pleasure motor. If you look at all the torque and horse power figures, torque on a decent motor is always within about 10% of HP. When you get like a nail head Buick that makes 350 HP and 450 pounds of torque, or a diesel that makes 300 hp and 600 ft pounds, well that's either a failure to rev or something else wrong. I have heard guys talk and say it’s the torque that moves the car. Well, would you want 10,000 pounds of torque at 5 RPM? I don't think so, it wouldn't get you anywhere. I'd like to hear other opinions on this, but if it’s a race motor, you want power, don't you? That equates to RPM's and torque put together. Build for horse power and the torque will come.
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Re: torque per cube?
[Re: SportF]
#578437
01/11/10 01:35 PM
01/11/10 01:35 PM
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,169 Virginia Beach, VA
Old School
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super stock
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Virginia Beach, VA
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Quote:
I am kinda curious why you would build for torque, assuming a race or even a pleasure motor. If you look at all the torque and horse power figures, torque on a decent motor is always within about 10% of HP. When you get like a nail head Buick that makes 350 HP and 450 pounds of torque, or a diesel that makes 300 hp and 600 ft pounds, well that's either a failure to rev or something else wrong. I have heard guys talk and say it’s the torque that moves the car. Well, would you want 10,000 pounds of torque at 5 RPM? I don't think so, it wouldn't get you anywhere. I'd like to hear other opinions on this, but if it’s a race motor, you want power, don't you? That equates to RPM's and torque put together. Build for horse power and the torque will come.
on my street cars,i build for torque and let the horsepower fall where it will.
68 cuda formula S 588" bb 5sp 70 CUDA CONVERT 500" 5SP (SUBLIME) 70 CUDA CONVERT 500" 5SP (PLUMCRAZY):TOO MUCH HORSEPOWER, IS ALMOST ENOUGH!
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Re: torque per cube?
[Re: Old School]
#578438
01/11/10 02:08 PM
01/11/10 02:08 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,123 Grand Haven, MI
patrick
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I've never seen a naturally aspirated motor make more than 1.4 lb-ft per cube.....most well designed/built make 1.2-1.3
1976 Spinnaker White Plymouth Duster, /6 A833OD 1986 Silver/Twilight Blue Chrysler 5th Ave HotRod **SOLD!*** 2011 Toxic Orange Dodge Charger R/T 2017 Grand Cherokee Overland 2014 Jeep Cherokee Latitude (holy crap, my daughter is driving)
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Re: torque per cube?
[Re: Old School]
#578439
01/11/10 02:27 PM
01/11/10 02:27 PM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 83 VA.
Avenger
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Quote:
Quote:
I am kinda curious why you would build for torque, assuming a race or even a pleasure motor. If you look at all the torque and horse power figures, torque on a decent motor is always within about 10% of HP. When you get like a nail head Buick that makes 350 HP and 450 pounds of torque, or a diesel that makes 300 hp and 600 ft pounds, well that's either a failure to rev or something else wrong. I have heard guys talk and say it’s the torque that moves the car. Well, would you want 10,000 pounds of torque at 5 RPM? I don't think so, it wouldn't get you anywhere. I'd like to hear other opinions on this, but if it’s a race motor, you want power, don't you? That equates to RPM's and torque put together. Build for horse power and the torque will come.
on my street cars,i build for torque and let the horsepower fall where it will.
My 2 cents for what it's worth. Building for torque is a good thing. Torque and power (HP) are linked by the hip (so to speak), because of the fact that horsepower equals torque (in ft-pounds) times RPM divided by 5250, so people who talk as if they are independent of each other don't really understand the concept. If you have a given torque curve for an engine, you have the horsepower curve also. Knowing how these two numbers work together with each other lets you better understand some of the do's and don't of what you might read on building efficient engines. RPM plays a hugh role also. Hope i'm not off bases with the initial question.
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Re: torque per cube?
[Re: Old School]
#578440
01/11/10 02:42 PM
01/11/10 02:42 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
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gregsdart
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It is great to read about combos, and what they produce. Torque, and where it is, combined with how the curve is shaped, mean everything in a motor plan. In the end, that is what will produce the usable hp you are shooting for. An example; My motor leaves the line at 6600 rpm, stays at 6600 for 2/3 of each gear. Probably would be a good idea to favor max torque production right there. So I want to know every thing I can about what will make best torque there.
8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
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Re: torque per cube?
[Re: MuscleMike]
#578442
01/11/10 03:11 PM
01/11/10 03:11 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 232 Lansing, MI
MuscleMike
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Forgot dyno sheet. its kind of grainy but it make 882 FT lbs 4500 and 915 @6000 RPM's. Over 800 ft lbs from 3200-6000 RPMs
Last edited by MuscleMike; 01/11/10 03:14 PM.
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Re: torque per cube?
[Re: Barnstorm]
#578444
01/11/10 06:43 PM
01/11/10 06:43 PM
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 140 sweden
street_dart
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766Lbs@5100rpm 499" (4.15x4.375") B1BS Mw port 67cc chamber. 13.7-1comp. Indy inake (ported). 1050(9375)holley. roller cam .725/.715lift 276/284@.050dur. headders 2"x34"-4"colector open. = 1.53Tq/"
Dodge Dart-67
Dodge Custom Royal Lancer-55
Dodge Dakota 4.7 -05
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Re: torque per cube?
[Re: Old School]
#578445
01/11/10 06:52 PM
01/11/10 06:52 PM
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,169 Virginia Beach, VA
Old School
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super stock
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Virginia Beach, VA
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Quote:
Quote:
I am kinda curious why you would build for torque, assuming a race or even a pleasure motor. If you look at all the torque and horse power figures, torque on a decent motor is always within about 10% of HP. When you get like a nail head Buick that makes 350 HP and 450 pounds of torque, or a diesel that makes 300 hp and 600 ft pounds, well that's either a failure to rev or something else wrong. I have heard guys talk and say it’s the torque that moves the car. Well, would you want 10,000 pounds of torque at 5 RPM? I don't think so, it wouldn't get you anywhere. I'd like to hear other opinions on this, but if it’s a race motor, you want power, don't you? That equates to RPM's and torque put together. Build for horse power and the torque will come.
on my street cars,i build for torque and let the horsepower fall where it will.
heres my torque curve,flat as a table this is on an engine dyno.i was able to get 34 more ftlbs while tunning on a chassis dyno.it made a total of 790 ftlb
Last edited by Old School; 01/11/10 06:56 PM.
68 cuda formula S 588" bb 5sp 70 CUDA CONVERT 500" 5SP (SUBLIME) 70 CUDA CONVERT 500" 5SP (PLUMCRAZY):TOO MUCH HORSEPOWER, IS ALMOST ENOUGH!
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