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Re: 440 source kit update part 2
[Re: abodiesonly1]
#575969
01/07/10 08:46 PM
01/07/10 08:46 PM
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,910
Eighty Four, PA
B G Racing
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,910
Eighty Four, PA
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Quote:
Not sure I follow......
Of all the rotating assemblies mentioned above, you have the added expense of re-sizing the rods?
Repeating what has been said a millionXs over.Never assume anything is race ready to use out of the box,be it cylinder heads,cranks,rods, pistons or whatever.Got a set of pistons,premium matched set to the gram,rings included.Rings didnt fit the ringlands.Also got a top of line billit set of rods once,all rods had 1/2 -12 point capscrews one was 7/16 head.  
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Re: 440 source kit update part 2
[Re: B G Racing]
#575970
01/07/10 09:35 PM
01/07/10 09:35 PM
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Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 438
Great Lakes Region
abodiesonly1
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 438
Great Lakes Region
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Quote:
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Not sure I follow......
Of all the rotating assemblies mentioned above, you have the added expense of re-sizing the rods?
Repeating what has been said a millionXs over.Never assume anything is race ready to use out of the box,be it cylinder heads,cranks,rods, pistons or whatever.Got a set of pistons,premium matched set to the gram,rings included.Rings didnt fit the ringlands.Also got a top of line billit set of rods once,all rods had 1/2 -12 point capscrews one was 7/16 head.
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Re: 440 source kit update part 2
[Re: B G Racing]
#575971
01/07/10 09:45 PM
01/07/10 09:45 PM
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,981
SE Michigan
TS3303
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,981
SE Michigan
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Previous owner had the rod end resize after the short block was assembled the frist time.Curt's check was after two torque cycles. 
Doesnt this throw any usable data out the window?
Not really,no matter who's rod,Source,Oliver or any rod should be checked and sized.
I have no real experience, but I agree as long as they weren't oversize and the bushings had to replaced it is a non issue.
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Re: 440 source kit update part 2
[Re: TS3303]
#575972
01/07/10 09:48 PM
01/07/10 09:48 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 6,293
Rock Springs
Bob_Coomer
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 6,293
Rock Springs
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Do you plan to run that bearing clearance found .002-.0025? Or a switch out to a HXN type bearing going to be in order to get you more in the .003-.0035 range?
[color:"red"]65 Hemi Belvedere coming soon [/color]
[color:"#00FF00"]557" Indy engine 1.07 60ft 144mph in the 8th 2100 lbs package [/color]
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Re: 440 source kit update part 2
[Re: TS3303]
#575973
01/07/10 10:09 PM
01/07/10 10:09 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,675
Columbia, CT
moper
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,675
Columbia, CT
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Quote:
[I have no real experience, but I agree as long as they weren't oversize and the bushings had to replaced it is a non issue.
I don't agree it's a non issue. Again, these are billed as ready to run. Resizing the big ends is not ready to run. I PM'd Bob in this exact issue that has never been addressed. I simply add the cost of resizing onto the kit when I'm doing a proposal using this stuff. Question for those who do use various quality rods... I'm certain most quality shops do cycle and chec rods out of the box... How many other brands have to be re-machined to get usable? I mean not one or two, but all 8, every time?
Well, art is art, isn't it? Still, on the other hand, water is water! And east is east and west is west and if you take cranberries and stew them like applesauce they taste much more like prunes than rhubarb does. Now, uh... Now you tell me what you know.
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Re: 440 source kit update part 2
[Re: moper]
#575975
01/07/10 10:16 PM
01/07/10 10:16 PM
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Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 438
Great Lakes Region
abodiesonly1
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 438
Great Lakes Region
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Quote:
Quote:
[I have no real experience, but I agree as long as they weren't oversize and the bushings had to replaced it is a non issue.
I don't agree it's a non issue. Again, these are billed as ready to run. Resizing the big ends is not ready to run. I PM'd Bob in this exact issue that has never been addressed. I simply add the cost of resizing onto the kit when I'm doing a proposal using this stuff. Question for those who do use various quality rods... I'm certain most quality shops do cycle and chec rods out of the box... How many other brands have to be re-machined to get usable? I mean not one or two, but all 8, every time?
Thank you.
Re-sizing rods is an added cost to any kit, be it source, callies, k1, eagle, or what have you.
Unless of course the builder and/or machinist is giving away free labor.
edit....I was speaking of the big end earlier and I assume BG was also.
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Re: 440 source kit update part 2
[Re: curt jr]
#575976
01/07/10 10:18 PM
01/07/10 10:18 PM
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 19,521
north of coder
moparx
"Butt Crack Bob"
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"Butt Crack Bob"
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 19,521
north of coder
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Quote:
Because of this misalignment the bearing shells extended past the rod surface. this is not a big issue as the bearings had no interferance at the crank radius. all in all the piston rod assembly looked quite well and in spec.
what would happen if the bearings were scraped to match the rod surface ? would this be benificial or is it even necessary ? would there be any oiling "restriction" if the bearings were left as is ? this is a good thread[s] you guys should get a medal [or at least a beer !]
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Post deleted by moparts
[Re: B G Racing]
#575978
01/07/10 11:11 PM
01/07/10 11:11 PM
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Re: 440 source kit update part 2
[Re: B G Racing]
#575979
01/07/10 11:41 PM
01/07/10 11:41 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 447
lake charles, la
sc4400
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 447
lake charles, la
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"only my third Source kit that I have been involved with.  Thanks to Brandon and Jeff,it may be my last.
I've, like many others, have followed this saga with rapt interest. I have 2 540 kits, and I do have issues with "Sources" unwillingness to supply individual parts for their kits. This is a dumb business practice IMO. So I'm no shill for them. 
But I've read Brandons thoughts on this build, and he didn't seem out of line, or hostile. It seems like you took way too quick a personal offense to his understandable defense of his business. You started this project with deferential respect towards all. Your sniping about his comments tarnishes your early classy aproach, IMHO
I pulled my brand new 540 crank out of the wrapper this evening, looking for the obvious flaws that you found on yours. The rod journal hole was perfect, unlike yours. My crank was purchased from Source in June of 2007, and never been out of the box. I'm going to use what you are teaching here to improve my program and look hard at potential issues.
Don't lose sight of your original goal, to provide useful insight to us hobby builders.
Keep up the good work, and thanks! 
RIP
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Re: 440 source kit update part 2
[Re: turbobitt]
#575983
01/08/10 03:27 AM
01/08/10 03:27 AM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,890
North Alabama
Monte_Smith
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,890
North Alabama
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I never once bashed "source" or their parts in the other thread. I simply stated my opinion on offshore parts in general, what was disclosed in the thread and what I have seen myself. I said I would not personally use the crank. They can trot as many people as they want to out here and say it's fine, but I still would not use that particular crank. That does not make it bad, just that I would not use it. Thats my opinion and my perrogative, as an engine builder, that has to justify letting something leave my shop with my name on it. I don't like it, I won't use it, period. Never said I would NOT use a Source crank, just not that one. Since I did not agree with his position on the matter, he stated that I must be inexperienced, or not know what I was looking at. So who was it again that started the personal attacks? I will agree however, that I mispoke about the better parts "always" being right. Nothing is "always" right and mistakes are made, however, it has been my experience, that the "better" parts are much more often "right" than the cheap parts.
Monte
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Re: 440 source kit update part 2
[Re: roadrunner470]
#575984
01/08/10 03:37 AM
01/08/10 03:37 AM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 27,347
Today? Who Knows?
1_WILD_RT
Management Trainee
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Management Trainee
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 27,347
Today? Who Knows?
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Quote:
Just wondering was the center to center .005 or.0005. Thanks for all the info.
I'd like that answer as well but FWIW if the resizing that was done was to the big end & not just honing the pin fit on the small end than the measurments could have been effected...
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Re: 440 source kit update part 2
[Re: Monte_Smith]
#575985
01/08/10 03:46 AM
01/08/10 03:46 AM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,318
Manitoba, Canada
DaytonaTurbo
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,318
Manitoba, Canada
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Quote:
Nothing is "always" right and mistakes are made, however, it has been my experience, that the "better" parts are much more often "right" than the cheap parts.
But isn't it a gamble either way? If murphy's law strikes, you're going to pay for the "better(which actually means more expensive)" parts and they could need as much work as the cheap stuff. Or you could buy a cheaper kit and end up with one that needs little to nothing. You can either buy a $1.5k kit and plan to potentially spend x amount of $ fixing the issues or buy a $3k kit and pray nothing needs fixing. It is a gamble either way because like you say, nothing is 'always' right. You do take your chances, which ever way you go.
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Re: 440 source kit update part 2
[Re: moparniac]
#575986
01/08/10 04:10 AM
01/08/10 04:10 AM
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 4,384
Worst Weather USA
493_DART
master
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master
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 4,384
Worst Weather USA
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I don't agree it's a non issue. Again, these are billed as ready to run. Resizing the big ends is not ready to run.
I think this is the main concern as well as "actual" cost on budget china deals that always seems to get people most frustrated!
Bob thx for all your information...
My 440 Source rods did not need to be re-sized .
Anyone else ?
I like this testing idea , but to be fair we need other users of these parts to post they're experiences ---good or bad .
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Re: 440 source kit update part 2
[Re: 493_DART]
#575987
01/08/10 04:31 AM
01/08/10 04:31 AM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 27,347
Today? Who Knows?
1_WILD_RT
Management Trainee
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Management Trainee
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 27,347
Today? Who Knows?
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Quote:
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I don't agree it's a non issue. Again, these are billed as ready to run. Resizing the big ends is not ready to run.
I think this is the main concern as well as "actual" cost on budget china deals that always seems to get people most frustrated!
Bob thx for all your information...
My 440 Source rods did not need to be re-sized .
Anyone else ?
My small ends needed resizing, my big ends were checked & needed no work...
The rods were equal length enough that when two rods were bolted to a crank throw you can pass a piston pin through the small end of both rods... This is something we would do while I was in the military to verify large diesel rods were straight.. If they vary by a couple thousandth the pin will either bind or not pass through.. So they are very close..
After all the negative comments about 440 Source cranks I paid to have mine hung in the crank grinder & measured.. Indexing, journal sizing, out of round, taper... Everything was checked the corrections were polishing of the crank snout & the seal surface... I spent about $450.00 having extra things checked but at this point I know what I have... And the machine shop I used said they would reccomend 440 Source to Mopar guys in the future.. When I was dropping the parts off they were warning me to expect problems..
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