Re: Thinking about adding a rear sway bar...your thoughts
[Re: GTXKen]
#564683
12/28/09 05:54 PM
12/28/09 05:54 PM
|
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 18,160 Mass
DAYCLONA
I Live Here
|
I Live Here
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 18,160
Mass
|
The Hellwig bar is a much beefier unit, but like all the rear bars on the market, be prepared for a little fab, the Helwig mounts to the axle,below it, and yes it'll work with a DANA 60,.....the firm feel bar isn't bad either,...the ADDCO is junk, looks pretty but fit is horrible, not even worth trying to make it work
|
|
|
Re: Thinking about adding a rear sway bar...your thoughts
[Re: GTXKen]
#564684
12/28/09 05:55 PM
12/28/09 05:55 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 9,066 Eugene, Oregon
minivan
master
|
master
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 9,066
Eugene, Oregon
|
I have the firm feel rear sway bar on my 67 coronet.. Made alot of difference before and after...
I had the adco? bar that mounted to the axle tubes and had the funky mount to the frame.. Sold it and bought the firm feel unit..
After looking at the firm feel unit why would anyone want to use any other???
Last edited by minivan; 12/28/09 05:56 PM.
|
|
|
Re: Thinking about adding a rear sway bar...your thoughts
[Re: minivan]
#564688
12/29/09 11:22 AM
12/29/09 11:22 AM
|
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,968 North Riverside IL & Lowell IN
GTXKen
OP
super gas
|
OP
super gas
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,968
North Riverside IL & Lowell IN
|
Quote:
I have the firm feel rear sway bar on my 67 coronet.. Made alot of difference before and after...
I had the adco? bar that mounted to the axle tubes and had the funky mount to the frame.. Sold it and bought the firm feel unit..
After looking at the firm feel unit why would anyone want to use any other???
Hey Minivan, any issues with the install? What exactly was the difference before and after? I'm sure you could feel it but where did you feel it, how does it change the ride/handeling?
Thanks Ken
|
|
|
Re: Thinking about adding a rear sway bar...your thoughts
[Re: GTXKen]
#564689
12/29/09 11:26 AM
12/29/09 11:26 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 292 Atlanta
DartGTX
enthusiast
|
enthusiast
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 292
Atlanta
|
Hello Ken, I installed the Hellwig bar on my car in 2000. It was the BEST upgrade I did regarding handling. With the factory front bar, poly suspension, KYB shocks and 255x50x16's on all four corners, my '70 GTX lifts the inside rear wheel on an autocross course. I STRONGLY recommend the Hellwig bar. Good luck,
|
|
|
Re: Thinking about adding a rear sway bar...your thoughts
[Re: DartGTX]
#564690
12/29/09 11:32 AM
12/29/09 11:32 AM
|
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,968 North Riverside IL & Lowell IN
GTXKen
OP
super gas
|
OP
super gas
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,968
North Riverside IL & Lowell IN
|
Quote:
Hello Ken,
I installed the Hellwig bar on my car in 2000. It was the BEST upgrade I did regarding handling. With the factory front bar, poly suspension, KYB shocks and 255x50x16's on all four corners, my '70 GTX lifts the inside rear wheel on an autocross course. I STRONGLY recommend the Hellwig bar.
Good luck,
I'll have to check out the Hellwig bar, I know nothing about them and this is a pretty strong endorsement. Nice car by the way!
I have installed frame connectors and torque boxes all poly bushings front and rear, .96 bars and HD leafs with an extra leaf installed and I'm running IAS shocks.
|
|
|
Re: Thinking about adding a rear sway bar...your thoughts
[Re: Dcuda69]
#564692
12/29/09 01:03 PM
12/29/09 01:03 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,480 So Cal
autoxcuda
Too Many Posts
|
Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,480
So Cal
|
From a previous post I made...
****The 70-72 B-body, E-body, and 73-76 A-body front sway bars are very similar and share the same issues with aftermarket sway bars.
These later cars have a sway bar that passes through the K-frame that is unique. The inner bushings are bolted to a U-channeled bar on each side of the K-member The Addco front sway bars have a poor K-frame attachment hardware. They replace the U-channeled bars with flat stock. They also have a lower control arm bracket that goes off the shock bolt with a skimpy simple piece of angle iron. A very weak setup.
The Firm Feel, Hotchkis and Hellwig front sway bars have nice thick adapter brackets to mount the sway bar to the frame. Hotchkis has a super beefy cast aluminum poly bushing housing. Hotchkis and Hellwig sway bars are hollow which save at least 5 pounds over a solid 1 1/8" sway bar from what I have weighed. I think you can order the Firm Feel front sway bars in hollow design.
On the lower control arm end, Frim Feel and Hellwig have nice sturdy hardware that bolts to the lower control arm and you drill a properly placed and supported hole to mount the study end link bracket. Hotchkis actually repros the factory lower control arm bracket in a little thicker metal. It would pass for stock for 90% of the people looking at it. You have to stare and focus on it, to notice. But, you do have to weld it on. If you have factory sway bar lower control arms, all brands will bolt in.
****The rear sway bar is different also....
The new Hellwig and Hotchkis rear bars have dog bone style end links. The traditional donut washer style bushings are very sensitive to where you place the frame bracket. If the bracket is of just a little the sway bar will have preload in it while the car is at rest.
The dog bone style end links have freedom of fore and aft movement and will not bind in those directions. Also that design allows for adjustable rear sway bar stiffness. The three holes in the Helwig and Hotchkis rear sway bars offer three stiffness settings.
The only bummer on those two rear bar designs is that they are axle mounted and bolt under the axle housing. That has addition unsprung weight and sometimes makes it a pain to use jackstands under you axle tubes. But weight is reduced on those rear bars because they are hollow design.
The Firm Feel rear sway bar is frame mounted like the original E-body rear sway bars were. The install is a little more involved but the finished result is very clean. They don't have the unsprung weight, but they don't offer an adjustment feature.
The Addco rear bar is axle mounts and has old style end donut end links. It's tricky to get the frame mount drilled in the right location so as not to bind up the end links. This is tough to do because the frame is at a 45 degree angle to the ground at that place.
I think that covers the major difference in the major sway bar offerings on the market now.
Last edited by autoxcuda; 12/29/09 01:16 PM.
|
|
|
Re: Thinking about adding a rear sway bar...your thoughts
[Re: GTXKen]
#564693
12/29/09 01:06 PM
12/29/09 01:06 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,123 Grand Haven, MI
patrick
I Live Here
|
I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,123
Grand Haven, MI
|
Quote:
Thanks for all the feedback, looks like its the Firm Feel bar I should go with. Next question is should I swap the front bar to a Firm Feel as well or will I be ok with the stock 40 year old unit?
how does the car handle now? if it's fairly neutral to slight understeer, increasing rear roll stiffness will make it biased towards oversteer, which can be kinda dangerous on the street. I'd talk to Dick and firm feel and take his suggestion, but I'd say you'd probably want a 1.125" front bar minimum if you're putting a rear bar on. if it has a factory front bar that's small (i.e. stock M bodies have a 7/8" front bar), see if you can find a bigger bar that utilizes the stock mounts, as it should hopefully be less expensive.
if your rear tires are significantly wider than the fronts (say, 225's in front and 275-295's in back) that'll bias towards understeer, and the rear bar alone might just bring it back to neutral without going so far as to make it oversteer happy....
1976 Spinnaker White Plymouth Duster, /6 A833OD 1986 Silver/Twilight Blue Chrysler 5th Ave HotRod **SOLD!*** 2011 Toxic Orange Dodge Charger R/T 2017 Grand Cherokee Overland 2014 Jeep Cherokee Latitude (holy crap, my daughter is driving)
|
|
|
Re: Thinking about adding a rear sway bar...your thoughts
[Re: GTXKen]
#564694
12/29/09 03:35 PM
12/29/09 03:35 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 9,066 Eugene, Oregon
minivan
master
|
master
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 9,066
Eugene, Oregon
|
Quote:
Quote:
I have the firm feel rear sway bar on my 67 coronet.. Made alot of difference before and after...
I had the adco? bar that mounted to the axle tubes and had the funky mount to the frame.. Sold it and bought the firm feel unit..
After looking at the firm feel unit why would anyone want to use any other???
Hey Minivan, any issues with the install? What exactly was the difference before and after? I'm sure you could feel it but where did you feel it, how does it change the ride/handeling?
Thanks Ken
Biggest issue with the 66-67 cars are the Sway bar brackets bolt up right where the fuel/brake lines come around the frame area on the wheel well.. I just loosened mine up and ran em around the brackets.. Looked alot harder than it was..
I had purchased a different rear sway bar many years ago through a Year one promotion..
To feed some "doohickey square things with a threaded hole" down the inside of the frame, and then attach the ends of the sway bar to it??? Well lets just say I thought that sway bar belonged in disneyland.. Not to say how ugly it was clamped to the rear axle housing... The firm feel looks like it came that way from the factory.
Personally, with the stock front sway bar and KYB shocks all the way around, it handles pretty darn sweet.. NO major sway, and it stopped my rear wheel/tire combination from rubbing on my wheel wells...
I guess the "clamp" on rear sway bars might offer more adjustability, but If I wanted to drive autocross I probably would buy a different car for that purpose...
|
|
|
Re: Thinking about adding a rear sway bar...your thoughts
[Re: GTXKen]
#564695
12/29/09 05:20 PM
12/29/09 05:20 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,071 Irving, TX
feets
Senior Management
|
Senior Management
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,071
Irving, TX
|
I don't know about you, but I've never driven a muscle-era Mopar that wasn't a push [Edited by Moparts - Family Friendly Site - Keep it clean] with stock suspension. Every one of them has wanted to go straight when you lean on 'em in a corner. B/RB powered cars are even worse.
Once you throw some heavier springs, GOOD shocks (not KYB crap), and a little frame stiffening things will probably change.
I've got the big bar from the front of a 69 RR on the hot rod. I added the big rear bar from Just Suspension (Addco style) and it evened out the handling a bit. Some good springs and shocks are still needed.
As for the RR lifting the inside rear tire in an autocross, it sounds like you've got some stiffening to do up front. That's a LOT of lift in the rear. The body is squishing something down pretty hard. That something has to be the outer front corner. I hope that chassis has been stiffened.
We are brothers and sisters doing time on the planet for better or worse. I'll take the better, if you don't mind. - Stu Harmon
|
|
|
Re: Thinking about adding a rear sway bar...your thoughts
[Re: 65Coronet7165]
#564699
12/30/09 08:50 AM
12/30/09 08:50 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,123 Grand Haven, MI
patrick
I Live Here
|
I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,123
Grand Haven, MI
|
Quote:
Well, I vote for the rear sway bar too!! I have a C body boat....'67 Chrysler 300. I've totally rebuilt and upgraded the suspension over a period of almost 3 years. Each change brought marked handling improvements and the ride has not deteriorated (in fact it has probably improved). To summarize, the car has a completly rebuilt suspension and steering system with: New rear springs from ESPO 1.16" torsion bars from Just Suspension 1 1/8" front sway from Firm Feel Tubular upper control arms (Just Suspension w/custom alignment) Firm Feel stage 2 p/s box New steering coupler, column support bearings Boxed lower control arms KYB shocks
The last changes I hemmed and hawwed about for quite a while but then decided to bite the bullet and go for "broke".
I had subframe connectors installed 7/8" rear sway from Firm Feel Bilstein shocks sourced from FF
I will tell you this, the rear sway and Bilstein shocks made a tremendous difference. With the rear sway there is less body lean (to be expected) more precise steering (less steering input or corrections to keep intended path) Better braking. Most of this is just from the rear sway I'm sure.
The Bilstein shocks alow the car to handle properly but still provide a remarkably smooth ride. With the KYB's the car would bottom on speed bumps and sudden road changes (crossing intersections at moderate speed). GO for IT!! You will NOT regret it!!!
the KYB's are crap. they're just harsh. I hate them....I am trying to decide what shocks I want to go with for my M body, as choices are very limited unless you want to do major rework to the mounting locations or spend bucko bucks on custom built shocks....I'm thinking of trying the monroe sensa-tracs....I also see rockauto now has Sachs shocks for my app, so I might try those. my moto guzzi has Sachs fork and shocks and rode/handles very well.
1976 Spinnaker White Plymouth Duster, /6 A833OD 1986 Silver/Twilight Blue Chrysler 5th Ave HotRod **SOLD!*** 2011 Toxic Orange Dodge Charger R/T 2017 Grand Cherokee Overland 2014 Jeep Cherokee Latitude (holy crap, my daughter is driving)
|
|
|
|
|