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Fuel injection for 440 #536237
11/25/09 07:29 AM
11/25/09 07:29 AM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 119
Chambersburg ,PA 17201
M
mopar4u Offline OP
member
mopar4u  Offline OP
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 119
Chambersburg ,PA 17201
I'm thinking of converting the 440 in my '73 Challenger to fuel injection. Looking for your opinions on what's out there, whats the best, systems to avoid, etc...
This is for street only. Thanks

Re: Fuel injection for 440 [Re: mopar4u] #536238
11/25/09 08:43 AM
11/25/09 08:43 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,988
Warren, MI
J
Jerry Offline
master
Jerry  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,988
Warren, MI
we do conversions using the megasquirt kit. its really cost effective and there is a lot of support online. but you personally have to really understand whats going on. if you want plug and play and have someone set it up and do it all for you this is not the kit for you. we can do kits for about $1200 but that requires alot of parts scrounging on your part.


Superior Design Concepts
2574 Elliott Dr
Troy MI 48083
jerry@sdconcepts.com
www.sdconcepts.com
Facebook page: Superior Design Concepts
www.bcrproducts.com
Re: Fuel injection for 440 [Re: Jerry] #536239
11/25/09 08:49 AM
11/25/09 08:49 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,497
N.E. Ohio
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KillerBee Offline
master
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K

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,497
N.E. Ohio

Re: Fuel injection for 440 [Re: mopar4u] #536240
11/25/09 10:23 AM
11/25/09 10:23 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck Offline
Not enough dumb comments...yet
Mr.Yuck  Offline
Not enough dumb comments...yet

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Quote:

I'm thinking of converting the 440 in my '73 Challenger to fuel injection. Looking for your opinions on what's out there, whats the best, systems to avoid, etc...
This is for street only. Thanks




I hope you have a lot of money and aren't expecting much. A well tuned carb will run just as good and give you just as much driveability. Most of the "kits" I've seen are VERY expensive.


[IMG]http://i66.tinypic.com/pui5j.jpg[/IMG]
Coming soon!!!!
Re: Fuel injection for 440 [Re: Mr.Yuck] #536241
11/25/09 10:49 AM
11/25/09 10:49 AM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,285
okla.
sam64 Offline
pro stock
sam64  Offline
pro stock

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,285
okla.
save your money,use it on something you will enjoy.

Re: Fuel injection for 440 [Re: sam64] #536242
11/25/09 10:53 AM
11/25/09 10:53 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck Offline
Not enough dumb comments...yet
Mr.Yuck  Offline
Not enough dumb comments...yet

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Quote:

save your money,use it on something you will enjoy.




like one of these....

5625912-4406a.jpg (1360 downloads)
Re: Fuel injection for 440 [Re: Mr.Yuck] #536243
11/25/09 10:59 AM
11/25/09 10:59 AM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 916
MB,CAN
PC-CHARGER Offline
super stock
PC-CHARGER  Offline
super stock

Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 916
MB,CAN
I guess expensive is relative but if there was very little improvement, I don't think you would see all the car manufacturers using electronic fuel injection. If you are expecting an improvement in maximum horespower output, you very well may be disappointed but most people that are going the EFI route are not usually doing it for maximum output but instead for overall driveability. Although a very experienced carb person could likely tune a carb to work extremely well, as soon as the weather changes a bit, that precise tune is off. An EFI system monitors and adjusts to the conditions, something a static carb arrangement can not do. Cold engine and cold weather starting are vastly improved and fuel mileage will usually be better becasue of the precise fuel management.

As far as expense goes, Rich at FASTMan EFI has the EZ-EFI setup priced at $1700 for a complete setup minus the fuel pump. That's maybe 30-60% more than a comparable carb/manifold setup but some people are willing to pay that extra for the added convenience of EFI.

Re: Fuel injection for 440 [Re: mopar4u] #536244
11/25/09 11:08 AM
11/25/09 11:08 AM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 8,911
Ontario, Canada
S
Stanton Offline
Don't question me!
Stanton  Offline
Don't question me!
S

Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 8,911
Ontario, Canada
Some look cool and once set up they are probably less trouble than a carb (over time) and they probably improve fuel economy. Other than that, EFI offers no advantage. If its HP you're looking for then you need to step up somewhere else - probably for a lot LESS money than an EFI will run you.

Run into trouble with an efi and you're pretty much screwed! Run into trouble with a carb and you can swap just about anything on to get you home.

Re: Fuel injection for 440 [Re: mopar4u] #536245
11/25/09 11:49 AM
11/25/09 11:49 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,938
Sonora CA
Mopar_Rich Offline
top fuel
Mopar_Rich  Offline
top fuel

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,938
Sonora CA
Quote:

I'm thinking of converting the 440 in my '73 Challenger to fuel injection. Looking for your opinions on what's out there, whats the best, systems to avoid, etc...
This is for street only. Thanks




At least check out my web site...
www.fastmanefi.com

Re: Fuel injection for 440 [Re: Mopar_Rich] #536246
11/25/09 12:30 PM
11/25/09 12:30 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,664
IN
A
ahy Offline
master
ahy  Offline
master
A

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,664
IN
I'm running FAST EFI on a B stroker. I drive the car in 3 seasons and plan to drive it cross country. The EFI gives it drivability and adjustability. Changes in temperature, altitude and various pump gas blends inclusing "alcohol enriched" don't bother it. I have set the maps at cruise power for lots of advance and a slightly lean mixture. 14 MPG at 75 MPG in a 496 with a fairly hot cam isn't bad. Was it worth it? For me yes.

Re: Fuel injection for 440 [Re: Mr.Yuck] #536247
11/25/09 12:46 PM
11/25/09 12:46 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,533
Indiana
F
Fury Fan Offline
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Fury Fan  Offline
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Posts: 3,533
Indiana
Quote:


I hope you have a lot of money and aren't expecting much. A well tuned carb will run just as good and give you just as much driveability. Most of the "kits" I've seen are VERY expensive.




And these are cheap and have a reputation for being easy to tune???

5626084-5625912-4406a.jpg (771 downloads)

Parts I seek: driver doorpanel, 65 Sport Fury, prefer black, needs to be 7-8 on 10 scale, might buy set 16" x 6" Dodge truck wheel(s), from early 70s?, takes 9" dogdish - need for a research job so cheaper is better. 69-73 C-body caliper brackets and/or splashields Send a PM.
Re: Fuel injection for 440 [Re: Fury Fan] #536248
11/25/09 12:48 PM
11/25/09 12:48 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck Offline
Not enough dumb comments...yet
Mr.Yuck  Offline
Not enough dumb comments...yet

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Quote:

Quote:


I hope you have a lot of money and aren't expecting much. A well tuned carb will run just as good and give you just as much driveability. Most of the "kits" I've seen are VERY expensive.




And these are cheap and have a reputation for being easy to tune???





nope he said just spend his money on something he'd enjoy.... not so cheap and not too hard to tune. If I had the $$$ for a Fuel Injection system I'd just get a Supercharger. I went w/ the 6-pack because this engine is around 11:1 too much for boost.

Re: Fuel injection for 440 [Re: KillerBee] #536249
11/25/09 12:51 PM
11/25/09 12:51 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,533
Indiana
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Fury Fan Offline
master
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,533
Indiana
Quote:

https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/show...rue#Post5552954




Check these also:
https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/show...&PHPSESSID=
https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/show...&PHPSESSID=
https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/show...&PHPSESSID=

Last time I looked, EFI was getting more plentiful and cheaper, and carbs were getting more expensive.

Yep, just get a competent carb tuner (if you can find one), get a crapload of tuning parts, and head to the dyno for a few hours and get it tuned to perfection. They probably won't charge you anything.

Carb guys love to brag about how they got such-and-such mileage out of a particular car at highway speed, but I'd like to see what the MPGs are over 10 tankfuls, in various weather conditions and in mixed city-highway driving.

Many carb guys also say their carbs don't evaporate fuel during a heatsoak. They say this because they restart easily - therefore we must not have lost any fuel, right? Well, you're losing fuel even if you can't smell it, boys...

Ford's EEC-IV (and probably others) shut the fuel injectors off when coasting and engine speed is over 1500 RPM. I regularly see 50+ instantaneous MPG in my Lincoln when coasting, but a shift from OD to D to get the RPMs up shoots that up to 75+ easily. Try to tune that into your carb!

Undoubtedly, carbs still have their usefulness, they can be quite effective. But EFI can do things a carb can't, plain and simple, so if you're someone that has interest in trying EFI, start reading books and EFI-based webboards, then see what you're capable of! Don't let the 'carb guys' hold you back.


Parts I seek: driver doorpanel, 65 Sport Fury, prefer black, needs to be 7-8 on 10 scale, might buy set 16" x 6" Dodge truck wheel(s), from early 70s?, takes 9" dogdish - need for a research job so cheaper is better. 69-73 C-body caliper brackets and/or splashields Send a PM.
Re: Fuel injection for 440 [Re: Fury Fan] #536250
11/25/09 01:01 PM
11/25/09 01:01 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck Offline
Not enough dumb comments...yet
Mr.Yuck  Offline
Not enough dumb comments...yet

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
"Last time I looked, EFI was getting more plentiful and cheaper, and carbs were getting more expensive"

well when I can get an EFI system for $500 I'll buy one. Until then I'll stick w/ my carb(s). I don't drive my classic nearly enough to care about MPG's. I've never had issues getting a carb'd car to start no matter the weather and I don't need a computer system to run my car and I can fix it myself.


[IMG]http://i66.tinypic.com/pui5j.jpg[/IMG]
Coming soon!!!!
Re: Fuel injection for 440 [Re: Mr.Yuck] #536251
11/25/09 03:46 PM
11/25/09 03:46 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,285
okla.
sam64 Offline
pro stock
sam64  Offline
pro stock

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,285
okla.
and if you think you are just going to throw efi on a modified engine and just drive it,you better know a good chassis dyno guy that knows how to tune efi.thousands of dollars and 2 different systems,i gave up and went back to carbs.

Re: Fuel injection for 440 [Re: Mr.Yuck] #536252
11/25/09 04:02 PM
11/25/09 04:02 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 8,707
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Andrewh Offline
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I agree, efi is not cheap. Even if you cobble a system together, tune it yourself etc, expect to be in it near 2k when you are done.
Even the buy it and run systems are going to be close to or over that based on what you have to add to your car to get that to run.

If money isn't an issue, and you are doing it for drivablilty or just cause you want to, then go for it.

The system I got started out cheaper than anyone else could and yet here I am looking at my reciepts for over 2k worth of stuff not even counting the engine, injectors, or tb, or even the stuff I needed to get the engine in the car.

Re: Fuel injection for 440 [Re: sam64] #536253
11/25/09 04:46 PM
11/25/09 04:46 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 39
CA
Steve383 Offline
member
Steve383  Offline
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Joined: Mar 2007
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CA
Quote:

and if you think you are just going to throw efi on a modified engine and just drive it,you better know a good chassis dyno guy that knows how to tune efi.thousands of dollars and 2 different systems,i gave up and went back to carbs.




After more than a year of working on mine (and paying a tuner twice to adjust it) I got tired of spending my driving time watching the computer and making adjustment and put a regular carb and dist back on.

The trips in my car are much more enjoyable now.

If you have a motor and computer that are built to match its a much different story but if your motor has a non stock cam its a pain in the ass and you really need somone that knows what their doing when it comes to tunning and programming.

If I had the money I would buy a crate motor with EFI or one out of a wrecking yard and put it in.


Re: Fuel injection for 440 [Re: mopar4u] #536254
11/25/09 06:18 PM
11/25/09 06:18 PM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 119
Chambersburg ,PA 17201
M
mopar4u Offline OP
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mopar4u  Offline OP
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M

Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 119
Chambersburg ,PA 17201
Quote:

I'm thinking of converting the 440 in my '73 Challenger to fuel injection. Looking for your opinions on what's out there, whats the best, systems to avoid, etc...
This is for street only. Thanks




Thanks for all the responses. That's exactly what I was looking for. I guess, in my case, I'm tired of tuning the carb and having hard starts (sometimes). Not doing it for HP but for better drivability. The idea of jumping in my Challenger and turning the key and have it fire-up instantly would be a blessing. I think I'm going to do it. Saw some nice systems at Edelbrock and Summit. Now if I can talk my wife into it....

Re: Fuel injection for 440 [Re: mopar4u] #536255
11/25/09 07:39 PM
11/25/09 07:39 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck Offline
Not enough dumb comments...yet
Mr.Yuck  Offline
Not enough dumb comments...yet

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Quote:

Quote:

I'm thinking of converting the 440 in my '73 Challenger to fuel injection. Looking for your opinions on what's out there, whats the best, systems to avoid, etc...
This is for street only. Thanks




Thanks for all the responses. That's exactly what I was looking for. I guess, in my case, I'm tired of tuning the carb and having hard starts (sometimes). Not doing it for HP but for better drivability. The idea of jumping in my Challenger and turning the key and have it fire-up instantly would be a blessing. I think I'm going to do it. Saw some nice systems at Edelbrock and Summit. Now if I can talk my wife into it....




what's so hard about starting it? do you have a choke? if you have an Carterbrock carb and you let it sit it can be hard to start.

Re: Fuel injection for 440 [Re: Mr.Yuck] #536256
11/25/09 09:13 PM
11/25/09 09:13 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 21,681
San Jose,CA
migsBIG Offline
YouTube is my go-to news source
migsBIG  Offline
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Posts: 21,681
San Jose,CA
Edelbrock has a new RB conversion coming out in feburary and will fit under the hood. Price was a complete kit around $2k, but could be up/down from that.

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