i don't post in the race section because, frankly, i don't know much about it. i enjoy going to the races, and after this past year i am thinking i want to build my roadrunner into a street/stip car running in the high 12s. i lurk over here and see what amazing (to me) times people are wringing out of streetable/inexpensive combos. here is what i am working with:

1969 roadrunner, freshly rebuilt stock (i think) 440 with 906 heads, MSD ignition, edelbrock intake, holly 4bbl, AOD833 overdrive four speed transmission with new centerforce clutch, 8 3/4 rear end with 4:10 gears, older superstock springs, front and rear swaybars, subframe connectors, and a driveshaft loop.

the car currently has no interior, and i am waiting to install the interior until i get the car painted and bodywork done. this seems like a good time to make any modifications to the suspension/drivetrain, so what do you recommend?

do i need to swap out the AOD gears and CONVERT the 4 speed to the regular ratios?

what modifications (cal tracks, adjustable pinion snubber, etc.) should i make for optimum traction?

if the engine is making, say, 325 hp, what other easy/cheap modifications should i make to get the car to go faster?

what suspension tuning can i/should i do?

engine pic:



car pic:



i have some other pictures if there are any specific things i should post...i'll upload them. thanks.

The overdrive 4th definitely isnt optimum for racing, but it might work ok depending on rear gear and end MPH. Caltracs are a good investment, but rear tires are probably even more important. It doesnt take anything special suspension wise to run 12's... I think your gonna need a bit more power though..

A mild modern camshaft like a Comp XE284, RPM intake, and a 750-850 Double Pumper would probably get you where you want to be.

First thing i'd do is weld in a set of subframe connectors. After doing that with my dart, i noticed the car seems much more sturdy. Really stiffened up the body.

Like topfueldart said, a good set of tires is a necessity also. Alot of guys, myself included, have had good luck with Drag radials on street/strip cars.

Getting your car to the 12's will be easy. A few things, get some adjustable rear shocks and maybe some new adjustable fronts but you can live with old fronts. Got a small block front torsion bar in the front. you will need to get the front end aligned but hey you will get better wt transfer. Loose the OD 4th gear.

As for the motor, if you are willing to tear in to it. Keep it simple. TM6 or TM7 intake the one for the 440 can not recall now or an M1 intake. It looks like you have a dual plane on there. That needs to go. Also if you are feeling really froggy, go for the MP .509 cam with the 292 duration. That is a good cam at a reasonable price. But like stated above a modern one would not be bad either. Yes the 750 or 850 DP will be a nice step up.

shouldn't be that hard... get some sticky tires, what cam? Is that a Performer intake? Exhaust cut-outs will get you 2-4 thenths... What are you willing to do to the engine? Not sure a "stock" 440 rebuild is going to get you into the 12's. Frame connectors help...90/10 front shocks, skinnier front tires might help a tad.

I would look at the fuel lines, fuel pump and pick up, if they are not 3/8 now convert them both to that size or larger and get a really good fuel pump Biuld the fuel system bigger than you need for 12.s, you will probally want to go faster in the future Traction is a very big deal in getting the car to accelerate rapidly, buy a good set of tires and wheels(both ) for use at the track if you can afford that, if not count on the good tires wearing out fast on the street As far as the four speed and the rear gear ratio I would leave it the way it is now and plan on leaving it in third gear at the track, don't shift it into O.D. unless you absolutetly have to Put the tallest and widest rear wheels and tires on the car you can for the track The bad thing about stick shift cars is starting line traction, the good thing about them is there is no loss of power due to converter slippage What size is that carb ? If you don't know what size it what is the "list" number stamped on the front drivers side of the choke horn? BTW, a waring from a old racer, speed is addicting, can you stand the ride Welcome to the jungle

good advice! i was thinking of buying some drag radials, as the car came with a set of slicks on 15x8 steel wheels. i think buying some adjustable shocks seems like a good idea the ones i have are old KYBs. the problem with the OD tranny is the granny first gear - i usually drive around in second on the street.

the carb is a holley double pumper 850 cfm, if i remember correctly, and the intake is an edelbrock dual plane, not a performer RPM but the older one. i think a cam would be a pretty easy modification, as i have changed one before.

the fuel system is all new...but i went with a regular fuel pump 3/8" lines and a new fuel tank. my subframe connectors are welded in. the small block torsion bar idea is one i haven't heard of...what does that do?

i was wondering if i should get rid of the power steering? i really like it for parking but...

thanks for the responses...

Quote:

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If it's a CH4B intake leave it and get a 4 hole 1/2" spacer. As for cam...Try a VooDoo. The smaller 513 lift should work.

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that is the intake...these cam options. what are the real world characteristics of these cams?

i am getting the impression that with a little money spent on suspension upgrades and a cam i could be in the range i want to be in...

Nutso I am not as smart as most these guys around here but I will say this. The 509 lift 292 cam is a GREAT street strip cam for the 440. It is what is in my car and everyone I talk to loacaly loves it. LOTS of bang for your buck just by droping that cam a m1 intake with you exsisting carb. My friend that has been running his car at the track for 3 years every weekend is running a 440 509 cam set of 1000 dollor heads from 440 scource , 850 DP and m1 intake. It has been super reliable and he dives it to the track and home.

Just from watching and listenign this seems to be a real good and popolar set up that gets good street strip characteristics.

I mean heck with that set up I ran 12's in my Duster this year and had not been to the track in years and years. And the guy that goes every week drove my car down the lane and pulled a 11:59.

First off, until you want to get into the 11s, stick with the dual plane, or if you have room, performer rpm.Those manifolds will make more power up to 5,000 rpm over a single plane. Since you will be in the bottom half of each gear over half the time, and probably not revving it past 5800 to 6,000, you just don't need it yet.
I would pull the heads, check to see what you have for quench, actual compression, and any port work. The quench issue is probably not something you can do anything about, having 906 heads. But you can have a sharp three angle valve job done and have the bowls blended just up from the valves.
Fuel system, you can probably get by with a good, high volume race type mechanical pump for now, stock lines. Just be sure and put a pressure gauge on the car, and be sure you have at least five psi in the traps.
Cool air is your friend. See if you can rig up a cold air intake without having to chop up anything on the car. All you need is a way to get a four inch dryer type duct up to a good, sealed aircleaner if you don't have a cold air package now. Optimize jetting and spark at the track, and you should be there.
The rear end life is subject to how hard you launch. I would get some sticky drag radials, put up with a slightly slower 60 ft than slicks, and let the rear punkin live a while. You are not going to need a lot of suspension tricks to run 12s. The SS springs along with some drag rear shocks from ma mopar (if they still sell em!) are cheap, and will get the job done . Otherwise, Rancho adjustable s would be the next cheapest way to control the rear axle. I would leave the front as is for now, exhuast your efforts on the back end first.

509 is ok if you have the compression. If you want cheap you can run 12.80's or better with a Summit 488 cam. and it's $109 w/ lifters. CH4B is a good intake. Or you could bypass it all and buy a 150 shot and be done...lol

Id lose the overdrive tranny...nevermind the ratios, from what i know unless you have the iron case ones they cant take very much power, and if you plan on powershifting at the track, i doubt it will last..

good info...how different is the .509 cam from the Comp XE284? would i need a different intake to allow it to breathe properly?

the tranny is an iron case, i have read that only 4th gear is really weak, and needs to be avoided while driving aggressively.

i think a cold air intake would be pretty easy to do, with some shadetree modifications.

should i aim higher than the 12s? i thought that was pretty fast, but i am getting the impression from the tone of the posts it is pretty slow, relatively speaking.

a little background: the engine came with the car and it is a mystery. it looks totally stock, but my friend, who owns and works at his auto repair business (Automotive Service Center in Tacoma, WA) thinks it is a stroker. he is an old school mopar guy, he got me into mopars with his 70 bee, and i respect his opinion. he thinks we should change the cam as well.

i was loooking at the vexer ratio calculator and i can go:
0-36 mph in first (shifting at 5,500 rpm)
36-67 mph in second (same shift point)
67-103 mph in third gear (same shift point)

if i shift at 6,000 rpm:
0-40 mph
40-73 mph
73-111 mph

the ratios are: first - 3.09:1, second- 1.67:1, third - 1:1, fourth - 0.73:1

this is with a 28" tire and 4:10s. are those ratios useable?

usually the differences between a 12 second car and a 13 second car is cam, converter, and gears. Not much else.

Converter isn't a factor since you have a 4 gear.(and I agree with dumping the od unit if you plan on racing it)

509 is good cam for power, but is old school. Keep in mind, you may have to remove your heads, and have the guides cut down, when you get into some of these higher lift cams. A home port may help at the same time. I think your intake will do it.

A decent cam, 391 gears or better, and a set of slicks with a pinion snubber and it should go.

My first pass in the 12's was a 12.48 running a cam similar to a 509( the 440 was 9.6:1 at that time with a set of home ported 452's and stock rockers), with 430's in the 8 3/4, a 3K converter, and a set of 30 by 9 radial goodyear slicks.. i was running a rpm intake, and a 750 mighty demon. FWIW, I still run the same carb and intake into the 11's

As for faster than 12's...just start there. You will find that you want to go faster, and you will get there sooner or later.

i have been looking at these cams online...the mp 509 is much less expensive, but the comp seems like it has a wider operating range.

thanks for the info...i will be making some upgrades soon!

I run a stock stroke 440 with 906 heads in my 63. But I use the MP .557 cam which is a solid so I adjust the valves once a year as thats all it needs. I would strongly advise pulling a head and finding out what your comp is before I decide on a cam. It dont take much to put a 440 B-body deep in the 12's or even 11's if you build a good combo. I run a .030 over 440 (446) with 906 heads that I ported and set up and the .557 cam. My eng comes out at 10.0 comp and I run the Holley Street Dominator which is a good intake for your combo also. I also like the Performer RPM for your combo but it sits taller then the Holley intake and you need to be sure the RPM will clear your hood. If you do consider a solid cam the MP .557 that I run works nice. The MP .528 is also a nice cam but wont make as much power as the .557 in the right combo. Good luck with it. Ron

As the least smart/informed here, I can tell you that my 440 stops pulling at 4800 RPM. Dyno knows.

I wouldn't do anything to the combination until until you have a baseline.

To get a baseline you need traction. You have superstock springs. The old KYB shocks are fine for the front at this level of desired performance, especially since the car is likely more driver than drag car. You need longer rear shocks. Mopar Performance rear drag shocks or even the cheapest $10 pickup truck shock from the 70's or 80's will do the job. Last, you need some properly sized drag radials on those 8 inch rims.

I would run what you have at the track and work on the tune of the combination.

If the carb is sharp, timing is right, and the MSD works, your driving skills will be all that matters.

Dropping the exhaust at the collectors or cutouts will help.

Your car at 325 hp should put you in the mid 13 second range.

You get your baseline by going out and beating on your car at the track, and keeping good records of what you did, and how you did it.

When you think that you understand your car and combination and have the relevant information gathered, you are then ready to make one change at a time, working on the baseline.

Asking "what should I buy?", "what would you do?", to everyone is not the way to do this.

The first thing you will learn is this:

Do I like racing? Do I like wrenching? Is this something I want to pursue? How deep do I want to get into the sport of racing?

You might be pleasantly surprised how your car responds to flogging it at the track and the satisfaction of tuning the performance out of your combination by yourself or with the guidance of an experienced individual.

When you have gotten to that point, you will know how much you need to spend to gain whatever ET you are after. Most of us are on a budget, why spend when you don't have to? Why alter the car beyond what you have to? Unless that is your goal, to have a 'poser' car and be a bench racer. I'm not being a smart azz, just offering what I think is sound advice. Been there and done that. Good luck with your endeavour.

I think Racealittle has the best advice. Get the car running first, go out and try it. THEN decide what needs to be changed.

Our 70 RR with a 383 that was REALLY tired (it looked like a crop duster going down the track, 1 quart of oil per tank of gas) ran in the 16's with a 4 speed and a 3.73 sure grip on 225 70 14's

Sent the engine off to DRAM and it started running 14's on the same street tires. Then slicks, and especially practice for the driver, the most important part, it ran in the 13's and eventually got it to a best of 12.56 although usually it was high 12's. Then I tapped a valve a month or so ago and that was it for that 383. Now it is getting a 452, same heads.

Our suspension is pretty much stock. It has the original rear springs, I have clamped them, it seems to help a little. An adjustable pinion snubber might help, but you already have super stock springs so are better off. I assume the front hangers are the extended ones. We have 1" torsion bars on the front, the exact opposite of what is "supposed" to be on there. With our roads I was not comfortable with soft torsion bars, plus the reduced life was something I was not interested in.

With the 8" wide rims you can fit a 28 x 9x15 slick on there no problem. IF you do not plan on using the slicks for anything but the track why waste the money on tires that are DOT legal.

It sounds like shifting at 6000 will get you where you need to be using the first 3 gears.

The dual plane will be fine, that is what we are running, a Performer RPM. If you have clearance issues loosen up the bolts holding the hinge to the inner fender and pull the rear up. You will have to fiddle with the alignment a bit. It will also let heat out that way. Cheap, no permanent mods done. Don't run without an air cleaner.

Dropping the exhaust and adding 18-20" collector extensions when at the track will help, it certainly seemed to help with the 383. It will definitely sound better.

You have a nice looking car! Have fun with it, this isn't world peace or anything.