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Broken Hemi pushrod cups #502748 10/21/09 11:47 AM 10/21/09 11:47 AM
Joined: Dec 2005 Posts: 123 Indiana M mt162 OP member
mt162 OP member M Joined: Dec 2005 Posts: 123 Indiana	I broke pushrod cups on cylinders 1 & 2 intakes. I'm running 375 lbs open pressure on a solid cam so I didn't expect this would happen to me. There are no signs of interference so should better pushrods fix this or do I need to dig deeper? Also, my lash opened up .015 after 2 hours of run time. Is this normal? This is my first hemi and my first solid cam so I'm not sure what to expect. I changed the break-in oil after 1 hr run time and the filter was clean at that time.

Re: Broken Hemi pushrod cups [Re: mt162] #502749 10/21/09 12:15 PM 10/21/09 12:15 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 7,498 Minnesota Hemi_Joel master
Hemi_Joel master Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 7,498 Minnesota	Was there any sign of heat or oil starvation? You need to make sure they are getting enuff oil. If it is oiling good, it could be valve to piston issues, valve float, tight guides, or pushrod to rockerarm clearance. Your lash should be more stable. Last edited by Hemi_Joel; 10/21/09 12:23 PM. [img]http://i.imgur.com/boeexFms.jpg[/img] 31 Plymouth Coupe, 392 Hemi, T56 magnum RS23J71 RS27J77 RP23J71 RO23J71 WM21J8A I don't regret the things I've done. I only regret the things I didn't do. "Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools because they have to say something. ~ Plato"

Re: Broken Hemi pushrod cups [Re: Hemi_Joel] #502750 10/21/09 12:57 PM 10/21/09 12:57 PM
Joined: Mar 2006 Posts: 9,910 Eighty Four, PA B G Racing master
B G Racing master Joined: Mar 2006 Posts: 9,910 Eighty Four, PA	Quote: Was there any sign of heat or oil starvation? You need to make sure they are getting enuff oil. If it is oiling good, it could be valve to piston issues, valve float, tight guides, or pushrod to rockerarm clearance. Your lash should be more stable. All of the above as well as geometry and side loading,valve spring coil bind, and block or head to pushrod interference as well as cam base circle and lifter cup height. Last edited by B G Racing; 10/21/09 01:08 PM. [IMG]http://i430.photobucket.com/albums/qq21/ajcasini/max_zpsdppwd9km.jpg[/IMG]

Re: Broken Hemi pushrod cups [Re: mt162] #502751 10/21/09 02:07 PM 10/21/09 02:07 PM
Joined: Oct 2007 Posts: 4,213 New York polyspheric master
polyspheric master Joined: Oct 2007 Posts: 4,213 New York	More details? 1. lash caps? 2. what lift? 3. are you sure the stands are stock height? Boffin Emeritus

Re: Broken Hemi pushrod cups [Re: Hemi_Joel] #502752 10/21/09 02:40 PM 10/21/09 02:40 PM
Joined: May 2004 Posts: 12,418 Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY Dragula I Live Here
Dragula I Live Here Joined: May 2004 Posts: 12,418 Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY	I have a bazillion of them. All oil starvation related at the tips. Going to fix that on the next go around...I have pics, but it sounds like you already know what they look like, but mine are all burnt looking at the cups. And the lash issue is normal on aluminum heads the first time they pull in heat. Retorque the head bolts and all the valve train bolts and reset the valve lash. Pretty normal. Last edited by Dragula; 10/21/09 02:41 PM. '70 Cuda,...605 EFI Hemi Street Car (6.20 best pass, 1.33 60ft) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYw6RA-k5Bk (6.25 at 108.75mph from inside car) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zQEb9uxFng (6.25 at 108mph from outside car) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCvfzsC4NgM (9.9) '66 Barracuda AWB Stretched nose Blown 440 Car in build stage '71 Duster Drag Car 400 Low Deck 512 best 6.002 at 115.44mph https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Znuo3jMUXTk

Post deleted by Defbob [Re: Dragula] #502753 10/21/09 02:51 PM 10/21/09 02:51 PM
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Re: Broken Hemi pushrod cups #502754 10/21/09 03:21 PM 10/21/09 03:21 PM
Joined: Dec 2005 Posts: 293 Kansas City Metro M mbogina enthusiast
mbogina enthusiast M Joined: Dec 2005 Posts: 293 Kansas City Metro	Breaking pushrod cups with that light of spring pressure (and no burnt cups)is probably related to binding/side loading the cup due to either horrible valvetrain geometry (doubtful)or interference with the pushrod guide hole vs the lifter/pushrod/head gasket/adjuster assembly (probable). Be a Rebel- Break the Laws of Physics!

Re: Broken Hemi pushrod cups #502755 10/21/09 03:31 PM 10/21/09 03:31 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 7,498 Minnesota Hemi_Joel master
Hemi_Joel master Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 7,498 Minnesota	I burned up alot of rockers and pushrods years ago due to not enuff oil getting where it belongs. What I do now to solve oil starvation at the pushrod cups and roller rocker tips is grind the groove in the #4 cam journal oversize. I make it about .090 wide by .060 deep. That sends alot more oil to the top. And I run 10w30 oil, it gets to the roller tips much quicker on cold starts than thick oil does. I started the motor with no valve covers on to test this stuff and watch what the oil does. Not much gets to the tips and cups untill the oil warms up. Note the little squirt of oil trying desperatly to make it out to the rocker tip. 5558592-P4050017.JPG (149 downloads) [img]http://i.imgur.com/boeexFms.jpg[/img] 31 Plymouth Coupe, 392 Hemi, T56 magnum RS23J71 RS27J77 RP23J71 RO23J71 WM21J8A I don't regret the things I've done. I only regret the things I didn't do. "Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools because they have to say something. ~ Plato"

Re: Broken Hemi pushrod cups [Re: Hemi_Joel] #502756 10/21/09 03:39 PM 10/21/09 03:39 PM
Joined: Mar 2006 Posts: 9,910 Eighty Four, PA B G Racing master
B G Racing master Joined: Mar 2006 Posts: 9,910 Eighty Four, PA	Joel,we drilled a hole in the body of the Landy intake rockers to throw oil on the spring,retainer and rocker tip.I agree that a good supply is also needed.WE had trouble with head studs closing off the oil supply through the head till we started using an undercut stud or reaming out the bolt hole in the head that supplied the oil to the rockers. [IMG]http://i430.photobucket.com/albums/qq21/ajcasini/max_zpsdppwd9km.jpg[/IMG]

Re: Broken Hemi pushrod cups [Re: B G Racing] #502757 10/21/09 04:41 PM 10/21/09 04:41 PM
Joined: Dec 2005 Posts: 123 Indiana M mt162 OP member
mt162 OP member M Joined: Dec 2005 Posts: 123 Indiana	No signs of oil starvation. The cups haven't even worn through the blue coating to shiny metal where the ball rides. The same goes for the edges of the cups. No indication of contact to the rocker arms. I also clearanced the valvetrain on the build so I know there was no contact and the pushrods show no signs of rubbing and none are bent. I checked the piston to valve clearance and I tore the heads down and checked the guides before I installed them. Compression was good except the 2 cylinders with broken pushrod cups. I have the MP blue stands and the valve tip contact looked good. My cam is about .620 lift and I checked for coil bind when the heads were assembled. I'm not using lash caps and I have about 1 thread showing on the adjusters. I did use crane pushrods and adjusters. Could that be my problem? How long is too long on the pushrods? That might be it. I left the lash caps off because I didn't have enough adjustment with them on.

Re: Broken Hemi pushrod cups [Re: mt162] #502758 10/21/09 05:04 PM 10/21/09 05:04 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 7,498 Minnesota Hemi_Joel master
Hemi_Joel master Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 7,498 Minnesota	Every situation is a little different, but in my experience leaving one thread on the adjuster is a chance for the edge of the pushrod cup to hit the rocker. I always leave 2 threads.

Re: Broken Hemi pushrod cups [Re: mt162] #502759 10/21/09 05:06 PM 10/21/09 05:06 PM
Joined: Dec 2005 Posts: 293 Kansas City Metro M mbogina enthusiast
mbogina enthusiast M Joined: Dec 2005 Posts: 293 Kansas City Metro	If the pushrods are too long the pushrod tip could contact the rocker next to the adjuster and break the tip. You stated that you have a thread showing on the adjuster and that the rocker didn't show signs of interference, so the pushrod length is probaly ok. 375 lbs. open spring pressure at .620 lift does sound pretty light to me, but I am used to having more than that for seat pressure. The pushrods that are not damaged, do they show a proper "ball shaped" wear pattern? I have had some adjusters in the past where the ball end seemed to be a little too large in diameter, leaving only a "seat" in the pushrod cup. If that is the case, the pushrod tip could fail accordingly. Be a Rebel- Break the Laws of Physics!

Re: Broken Hemi pushrod cups [Re: mbogina] #502760 10/21/09 09:53 PM 10/21/09 09:53 PM
Joined: May 2007 Posts: 1,087 Northeast, Arkansas D Dodgeman67 super stock
Dodgeman67 super stock D Joined: May 2007 Posts: 1,087 Northeast, Arkansas	Not to hijack the thread but on the oil starvation problems, will the oil through pushrods cure that?

Re: Broken Hemi pushrod cups [Re: mbogina] #502761 10/22/09 11:25 AM 10/22/09 11:25 AM
Joined: Dec 2005 Posts: 123 Indiana M mt162 OP member
mt162 OP member M Joined: Dec 2005 Posts: 123 Indiana	Quote: If the pushrods are too long the pushrod tip could contact the rocker next to the adjuster and break the tip. You stated that you have a thread showing on the adjuster and that the rocker didn't show signs of interference, so the pushrod length is probaly ok. 375 lbs. open spring pressure at .620 lift does sound pretty light to me, but I am used to having more than that for seat pressure. The pushrods that are not damaged, do they show a proper "ball shaped" wear pattern? I have had some adjusters in the past where the ball end seemed to be a little too large in diameter, leaving only a "seat" in the pushrod cup. If that is the case, the pushrod tip could fail accordingly. The cups do look like the balls were riding on the sides and not touching on the bottoms. That's the only thing I've found so far. Guess I'll order new ones, torque the heads and try it again. Thanks to everyone for the inputs.

Re: Broken Hemi pushrod cups [Re: mt162] #502762 10/22/09 04:53 PM 10/22/09 04:53 PM
Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 1,416 Lake Charles,Louisiana B BILLYJAY pro stock
BILLYJAY pro stock B Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 1,416 Lake Charles,Louisiana	What brand of pushrods are you using ??? Just got done fighting with Indy's and breaking the cups @ Idle...still havent finished putting it all back together to see if the new pushrods and New Harland Sharps help..Also i changed out my oiling restrictors from #64 Holley jet to a #79..the 2 pushrods on #7 cylinder showed some signs of heat and one of the 2 cups was split... so i am going to oil the Heck out of the top and not worry about the small lose of oil pressure..if it will help me to keep from breaking anymore parts on my new motor... 5560702-014.JPG (99 downloads)

Re: Broken Hemi pushrod cups [Re: BILLYJAY] #502763 10/22/09 09:23 PM 10/22/09 09:23 PM
Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 1,466 malvern, ohio 3 3ddart pro stock
3ddart pro stock 3 Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 1,466 malvern, ohio	read this post and got curious, so i played with my hemi today (i have it on a breakin stand i made). pulled the covers after running it and the pushrod cups had oil, but it didn't look like alot. anyway, why i'm posting is because i am using the old stamped alum. duel-plug valve covers and by leaving the block-off plates and the spark plug tubes off it was very easy to see the oiling going on! the intakes are getting plenty but not so much on the exhausts, but some. this is with landy intakes and stock ex. not sure why the difference in the amount! i even backed off the adjusters on a couple of rockers to make sure i had the shafts in corretly and oil burst out of the ex. shaft when i slid the ex rocker to the side. anyway those valve covers work good to show you your oiling. by the way suck what oil out of the cups that you can before you reinstall everything and expect lots of white smoke when you restart the engine!!! dave

Post deleted by Defbob [Re: 3ddart] #502764 10/22/09 09:43 PM 10/22/09 09:43 PM
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Anonymous Unregistered A

Re: Broken Hemi pushrod cups #502765 10/22/09 09:49 PM 10/22/09 09:49 PM
Joined: May 2007 Posts: 1,087 Northeast, Arkansas D Dodgeman67 super stock
Dodgeman67 super stock D Joined: May 2007 Posts: 1,087 Northeast, Arkansas	Dang, something else I need.

Re: Broken Hemi pushrod cups #502766 10/22/09 09:49 PM 10/22/09 09:49 PM
Joined: Jul 2005 Posts: 1,162 s e mich ro23car super stock
ro23car super stock Joined: Jul 2005 Posts: 1,162 s e mich	Quote: this will cure any dry cup problems is that thingamabobbie home made?

Re: Broken Hemi pushrod cups [Re: Dodgeman67] #502767 10/22/09 09:53 PM 10/22/09 09:53 PM
Joined: Dec 2007 Posts: 12,592 Great Neck,LI,new york hemi-itis I Live Here
hemi-itis I Live Here Joined: Dec 2007 Posts: 12,592 Great Neck,LI,new york	Quote: Not to hijack the thread but on the oil starvation problems, will the oil through pushrods cure that? I sent oil up the exhaust pushrods as per Lou Vignogna's recommendation and never had a problem again. 5561288-Al&Lou1.jpg (116 downloads) HEMI-ITIS has no cure. My condition is fully BLOWN!!

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