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Effect of advancing a cam #457213
09/02/09 03:10 AM
09/02/09 03:10 AM
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Danan Offline OP
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Danan  Offline OP
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Hello,
I'm building a 360 for my 79 trailduster. Actual 9:1 compression, stock 340 cam (.420"/.444", 114 centerline). I built an identical engine for my wife's 85 RC and have been happy with it. Night and day difference in power when compared to a stock 360. The only thing is that our RC never sees the high side of 3500 rpm, so I think I'm leaving some power on the table. My thought was to advance the cam in this new engine and see how it works. Currently, the cam is degreed in at 111.75 degrees (2.25 degrees advanced).

Does anyone have any real-world experience on what effect 2 degrees advanced will have? Should I go 4 degrees??

Incidentally, I tried to do a search on moparts, to no avail. I tried searching 'advancing cam' and several similar phrases, going back one year. As usual, I got everything BUT message threads on advancing a cam. Is it just me, or is the search function basically unusable??

Thanks for any insight!!

Re: Effect of advancing a cam [Re: Danan] #457214
09/02/09 08:55 AM
09/02/09 08:55 AM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,746
Ontario, Canada
Dodgem Offline
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Ontario, Canada
what are you @ .050 duration numbers?
I think 108 intake centerline would be a good place for what you want to do. it will make it snappier and quicker bottom end as well the idle quality should improve slightly too!

Re: Effect of advancing a cam [Re: Dodgem] #457215
09/02/09 09:38 AM
09/02/09 09:38 AM
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Posts: 36,041
Lincoln Nebraska
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RapidRobert Offline
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Lincoln Nebraska
Definitely adv it 4 deg. Your app is the perfect setup for that. Low rpm diff in my pretty much stock 440(had a wild cam though) was night & day but I did mill the 906 heads .060" at the same time. Do check PV clearance also, one will increase & one will decrease. So I'm not the only one that hasn't figured out the search function, I'm doing something wrong, it's a total waste of time (for me so far).


live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
Re: Effect of advancing a cam [Re: RapidRobert] #457216
09/02/09 11:29 AM
09/02/09 11:29 AM
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Danan Offline OP
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Danan  Offline OP
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Thanks! I'll throw a couple more degrees into the engine. I'm not sure what the duration at .050" is, although I suppose now is the time to measure it seeing as how the degree wheel is still on the engine. I'll definitely check PV clearance (always do). Thanks again for the input!!
Danan

Re: Effect of advancing a cam [Re: Danan] #457217
09/02/09 11:44 AM
09/02/09 11:44 AM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 8,162
USA
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360view Offline
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If you seldom go past 3500 rpm,
consider having a custom camshaft ground
with less valve lift, and which closes the intake less past bottom dead center.
Valve lift of 0.22 inches and closing 25 degrees past bdc would be in the ballpark. The 'ramp' of the cam lobe can also be steeper at these low lifts and rpms, which will open the valve faster.

This will give a torque boost at the lower rpm,
due to an "inertia velocity" of the airflow closer to optimum at the lower total flow just before the intake valve closes,
plus more swirl if the combustion chamber has some intake valve shrouding, like a 1979 should have stock.

There is also the potential for some MPG improvement in daily part-throttle driving.

If the RC is used for rock crawling and off-roading at low speeds,
the engine behavior 1200 to 2200 rpm should feel stronger,
but you do give up +3000 rpm WOT power.

Advancing the cam will give a much lower benefit, but in the same direction.

The variable valve timing addition on the newest 5.7 Hemi is for the same idea at lower rpms.

The Fiat 'Multi-Air' system that is coming to Chrysler engines adds variable lift to the valves for the same reasons.

Re: Effect of advancing a cam [Re: 360view] #457218
09/02/09 12:34 PM
09/02/09 12:34 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,123
Grand Haven, MI
patrick Offline
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Grand Haven, MI
your advice is partially right. less valve lift isn't the right way to go if you want to make power, period. if you want to maximize power for your lower RPM running, you want to open the valve as fast as possible and as much as possible for the shortest amount of time. get a cam with as much valve lift as possible with as much .050 & .2" duration and as short of seat duration, and as little overlap as possible. you're looking to maximize area under the lift curve, while minimizing seat duration, and closing the intake valve as soon as possible.

for a flat tappet, a lunati voodoo 60400 would be your best bet.

looking at the cam specs:
the stock 340 cam is 268/276 adv, 208/214@.050, .429/.444 lift, 44 degrees overlap, intake closes 66 degrees ABDC

the voodoo 60400 is 250/256 adv (~20 degrees less duration for each!), 208/213@.050 (same .050 duration!), .454/.454 lift, 29 degrees overlap, intake closes, if it's installed at the recommended 108 ICL, at 53 degrees ABDC, or 13 degrees sooner than your old cam.

so you have the around same effective duration (heads don't flow meaningful amounts of air until .050-.1" lift), with more lift (more area under the lift curve=better cylinder filling and more power potential), and a much earlier intake closing point, which again will help with cylinder pressure to make more torque.


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Re: Effect of advancing a cam [Re: patrick] #457219
09/02/09 09:39 PM
09/02/09 09:39 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,791
Hamilton, Ontario Canada
Magnum Offline
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Magnum  Offline
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Hamilton, Ontario Canada
You have the wrong cam for this application.


69 Super Bee, 93 Mustang LX, 04 Allure Super
Re: Effect of advancing a cam [Re: Magnum] #457220
09/02/09 11:58 PM
09/02/09 11:58 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,318
Manitoba, Canada
DaytonaTurbo Offline
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Posts: 21,318
Manitoba, Canada
Quote:

You have the wrong cam for this application.




I was thinking that too. 340 cam was not designed for pure bottom end power.







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