Hello all,
I am new to the forum and I need your help.
My 1958 Plymouth Custom Suburban has problems
with a blocking right front brake. The car is
fitted with a Hydravac Power brake. After changing wheel cylinders and installing a repair set for the master cylinder it seems that the return springs have weakened. I had problems to locate a new set. I found in an earlier post, that springs of VW / Audi would fit, but it was not mentioned which year and type of car.
Any information about this ?

Also I got offered a new set of 1960 Desoto Adventurer brakes, including drums, brakes shoes,
and cylinders. Do these fit on my 1958 Plymouth ?
I guess that the brake parts of Chrysler, Desoto,
Dodge and Plymouth passenger cars from 1957 to 1960 are the same, but am not sure. Can anybody confirm this ? Any help highly appreciated.

Axel Wolters AKA wolla59

Welcome! Have you checked the brake hose on the wheel that is sticking? They tend to break down from the inside out with age and they will hold pressure in the system. You might try opening the bleeder screw on that wheel while it's stuck and if it frees up you will know it's not the return springs. Sorry I don't know if the 1960 Desoto brakes will fit. But these guys probably do:
http://www.forwardlook.net/
Good luck!

Brake problems are quite common on those cars. I'd invest in a disc conversion. They make on using GM junk, (AAJ?) but you can also use later model Mopar stuff.

Either will work till you go to replace anything, and wonder what was used. Bent-bar car's parts (GFury, Diplomat, etc) work well for this.

Audi VW return springs work on that?My 57 had huge springs for the returns.Ive never seen a VW with any that big.They used an odd hold down on that car also.Looks like a stainless plate with a spring type clip that pops in.The desoto migh have had the 12 inch shoes.All can be interchanged even if they shoes are bigger or smaller.Just have to change them all.Has all 4 whl cyls been rebuilt.Thats a weak point in that system.Sometimes the lower cyl wont bleed all the way out.That and the pistons in them need to be super clean.Rocky

the worst part is you can have all the new parts you want - if they are not aligned correctly - with the tool that sets up the brake shoes - you will always have one grab before the others too... just another possibility.

Hello,

thank you for your fast response. I forgot to mention, that the brake cylinders were renewed
with the rubber brake hoses last year. The problems began after this was made. First it only happened after a few miles drive, probably when
the brake temperature rose. But last weekend when I returned from a meeting, the next morning when I wanted to drive out of my garage, the brake blocked instantly and at that time it was cold!
Driving backwards is possible, the brake shoe does not stick to the drum. So the suspect is, that one of the shoe return springs which seems to be weakened, does not retract the shoe completely. The master cylinder also received a new repair kit, so the valve, piston and rubber caps are also new. Excenters also have been adjusted correctly. The whole thing is a great
mistery ! Maybe more forum users can help ?
Thanks a lot to everybody.
Axel

Ive found for the most part they usualy need new wheel cyls.My kids 62 was doing the same thing.Replace the cylinders and it been trouble free for the last 8 years.It even stops great at over 100 thru the 1/4.The cylinders on them are a royal pain to rebuild and get to work right.I have seen new return springs on Ebay.The odd hold downs are rare if they need replaced.Last NOS set I had sold for over 200 bucks.Rocky

Axel,
I think it's most likely one of the linings of the brakeshoes are seperating from the metal. Have you replaced these aswell?
Also make sure the brake-lining isn't 'square' at the beginning and ends. It's best to grind a small 'ramp' on the leading edges to prevent grabbing of the brakes.

I've had the exact same problem happen on my '62 NY wagon recently. Only with me the problem happend mainly when the brakes where cold at the beginning of the day.

I've now just converted the wagon to 12" discbrakes (homebuild system based on '73 Chrysler rotors) as I didn't want to spend money on the already worn drums and rest of the drumbrake-system.

Hi;
A few other things you can check.
First, there a couple of flat spots on the backing plate for each shoe, with corresponding spots on the shoe to ride on. Rust or wear (ie. a step in the surface) can cause a hangup, and there is supposed to be a little grease there to lubricate the surface.
Second, these brakes are hypersensitive to moisture (ask me how I know). The brake cylinders are not an exact fit to the backing plate and can allow water in. The factory had a foam seal, long missing from most cars. You can use dum dum/ permagum/ butyl to seal the cylinders from the outside of the backing plate. The factory also mad a seal for the drums to the backing plat to reduce water getting in the brakes (old Master Tech tip).
If you got any fluid on the linings while replacing the hydraulic parts they are suspect, it it hard to clean off completely and it is just like having permanently wet linings.
Good luck,
Mark

To BigBlockMopar:

Hello Herman, thank you for your information
according your 62 Chrysler NY wagon. Where
are located in the Netherlands ? Maybe I know
your car, if it is a kind of pink or cream colour. Have seen this car in Marsseveen a few years ago. I live near the durch border, not
far from Venlo / Limburg.

To all others: Thank you so much for your
assistance. Can anybody confirm that the
1960 De Soto Adventurer brake drums and shoes
fit on my car? I got an offer for a set of these.

Have a great weekend!
Axel

Update Sunday August 30th.

I tried to fee the blocking brake by opening the valve at my hydravac power brake booster. The wheel
went really free. But as soon as I push the brake pedal, the brake blocks again. While pushing the brake pedal very soft, the wheel was blocked only a little bit. But after moving the car about 50 inches it blocks again without having pushed the brake pedal. Seems that the brake pad grabs automatically. As the master cylinder received a repair kit including the bottom valve, its surely not a problem of the master cylinder, even if the
pressure gets lost when I open the valve to let some brake fluid bleed out. I will install the new return springs and will flatten the brake shoes ends with a file. Hope that works. I will let you know, hopefuly soon.
Axel

Years ago,(1968) I had the exact same problem with the right front 11" brake on my 59 Plymouth Fury. Because of wear, I had replaced all the shoes, wheel cylinders and hoses, turned the drums, and overhauled the master cylinder. Wheel started locking...hot or cold. Had to back up to free the wheel. Move forward a bit, and the wheel would lock up. I replaced everything....everything BUT the master cylinder...just rebuilt, right? why replace it. No change, the right front kept locking up.
I was working at a small auto parts store that sold Grey Rock brake products...It just so happened that a Grey Rock brake engineer was visiting the store, so I pressed him for advice.
After I told him the symptoms and what all I had done to try to fix it, he said "master cylinder check valve is hanging up. When it does so, the wheel with the least hydraulic resistance will lock, even though the others work fine." Sure enough, there was a tiny bit of trash in the valve. Cleaned it with a paper clip and high pressure shop air and the problem disappeared. Might be your problem...worth a look.

Good info Skyhawk.

Axel, I live in The Hague on the westcoast of the Netherlands.
My '62 wagon is all black and hasn't been on the road for well over a year now because of the brake-issues.
But the discbrake conversion I'm doing right now looks very promising so next year I'll be cruising around again with the wagon.

I hope to see your wagon one day somewhere. I've got a '57 Plymouth 4dr Hardtop coming over from the States myself pretty soon.

Hello Skyhawk 61,

thank you for your idea. We first also had the suspect, that it could be the valve in the master cylinder, because after opening the brake hose to take the pressure away, the brake went free.
But the valve was replaced by a new part included in the repair set as well. So only the softened
return spring was left under suspect. If I would
change this to the left front wheel and it would happen again, I knew it for sure....

Still I need information whether the 1960 Desoto
parts would fit on the 1958 Plymouth.

Can anybody tell me how I can attach a picture of my brake along with my post?

Thank you to evrybody!
Axel

Axel,
Just open a free Photobucket account a post your pics from there... www.photobucket.com
Photobucket also automaticly resizes your pics for easay viewing on forums and such.

The basic design is the same, but there are different size drums/ shoes - 11" x 2", 11 x 2.1/2" or 12" x 2.1/2". Station wagons often but not always had bigger brakes. The only way to be sure if the DeSoto parts work is to measure. Otherwise, swap everything, backing plates out, to get compatible parts.