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Re: B1 Guys what is the max HP
[Re: Diego_Ted]
#444043
08/20/09 09:29 AM
08/20/09 09:29 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,043
MN
JERICOGTX
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,043
MN
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I wouldn't go over 800 with a stock block, even with good aluminum main caps. Anything more and it would be a wise investment in a aftermarket block.
Jeff
69 GTX
68 Road Runner
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Re: B1 Guys what is the max HP
[Re: Diego_Ted]
#444044
08/20/09 09:33 AM
08/20/09 09:33 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,015
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart
I Live Here
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I Live Here
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Posts: 10,015
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
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You are asking a stock block to handle 950 + hp to go mid eights at 3000 lbs. Consider the cost of a good block, as compared to redoing another stock block, adding that expense to a lost weekend when it breaks, etc. On top of that, you could go aluminum block and really gain some weight savings up front.
A well built aftermarket block with 528 or more cubes, B1 heads will get you mid eights before the power adder.
Last edited by gregsdart; 08/20/09 09:34 AM.
8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
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Re: B1 Guys what is the max HP
[Re: S/ST 3040]
#444045
08/20/09 09:39 AM
08/20/09 09:39 AM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 8,165
Left Coast
BobR
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 8,165
Left Coast
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Quote:
From my days with an alcohol burning 410" S/S NTPA team........much over
700 HP will split those blocks wide open, tall fill and aluminum caps.
I agree. Doesn't really matter what heads the blocks just aren't reliable for much more than this. You aren't going to achieve your goals(for long) with a stock 400 block.
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Re: B1 Guys what is the max HP
[Re: gregsdart]
#444046
08/20/09 09:41 AM
08/20/09 09:41 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,015
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,015
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
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Ten years ago I had the chance to buy a 540 inch, low deck aluminum kb motor with B1mc heads that made over 1000 hp , and would push a local 2550 lb 9.90 car to 170 mph on the throttle stop! I am sorry I didn't figure out how to come up with the $$, and that same package appeals to me today. If you already have B1 heads, why not treat them to a block that will let them roar?
8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
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Re: B1 Guys what is the max HP
[Re: Diego_Ted]
#444047
08/20/09 09:42 AM
08/20/09 09:42 AM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 6,293
Rock Springs
Bob_Coomer
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 6,293
Rock Springs
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It will live awhile, maybe. The girdle, and aluminum caps do nothing for spit bores. If you decide to do it with a stock block, find one that has thick cylinder walls.
No matter what you do to it, it will just find the next weak link in the block.
By the time you add, aluminum caps, girdles, half fill, bore, decked, honed, lined bored.
How much more would a World Block be at this point?
[color:"red"]65 Hemi Belvedere coming soon [/color]
[color:"#00FF00"]557" Indy engine 1.07 60ft 144mph in the 8th 2100 lbs package [/color]
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Re: B1 Guys what is the max HP
[Re: Diego_Ted]
#444048
08/20/09 10:08 AM
08/20/09 10:08 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,380
Marion, South Carolina [><]
an8sec70cuda
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,380
Marion, South Carolina [><]
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Ask Al Alguire about stock low deck blocks making tons of power with B1 heads. I remember him saying he'll never build another stock block motor again, even though his was a "good" 230 casting. As well as NHRA Mark a few years ago when his last stock block motor grenaded. I'm not picking on these guys, just saying they just made some ridiculous power with stock blocks and proved they won't take it for long. CHIP
CHIP
'70 hemicuda, 575" Hemi, 727, Dana 60
'69 road runner, 440-6, 18 spline 4 speed, Dana 60
'71 Demon, 340, low gear 904, 8.75
'73 Chrysler New Yorker, 440, 727, 8.75
'90 Chevy 454SS Silverado, 476" BBC, TH400, 14 bolt
'06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax
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Re: B1 Guys what is the max HP
[Re: an8sec70cuda]
#444050
08/20/09 10:13 AM
08/20/09 10:13 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,379
Las Vegas
Al_Alguire
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,379
Las Vegas
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What Chip said..
The asy answer is you can make WAY more power than the block will hold. You can pick up a World iron block for $2500ish dollars, price a GOOD 400 block, the aftermarket caps, filler and a girdle plus machine work and then tell me you are coming out ahead.
With a decent set(read some bowl work)of B1's you will make over 800hp. Adding nitrous to that is asking for more issues, not that you cannot get a 400 block to live but IMO it is not worth the effort with all the alternatives out there. Why underbuild a motor with those heads only in an effort to try and make it live? Kind of defeats the purpose of having the heads IMO. Yes I have doen it but that was when there were few alternatives. I killed two blocks and beleive me it is a HUGE cost.....
"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."
"It's never wrong to do the right thing"
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Re: B1 Guys what is the max HP
[Re: AndyF]
#444052
08/20/09 10:46 AM
08/20/09 10:46 AM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 2,503
Illinois
CRE2004
super gas
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super gas
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 2,503
Illinois
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Quote:
Koffel has been building B1 400 block combos for a long time. He originally designed the B1 head to fit the 400 block because it was the only Mopar block that had a chance to handle the power. So if you follow their recommendations you should have a fighting chance at getting it to live.
Not sure why nobody has made a low deck aftermarket block yet in cast iron. Seems like a natural product to have. Lots of guys don't want to switch to the taller RB block after they are all set up with the low deck combo.
What is the attraction of a low deck when building
a high horsepower combo? It's not that much shorter and the weight savings is nill. From my experience the low deck factory junk has shorter cylinders but most are all thinner than the 440's i've sonic'd. Unless it's going in an A-body with fenderwells still in it, what's the point? I'd like to hear what you guys think on this one.
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Re: B1 Guys what is the max HP
[Re: CRE2004]
#444053
08/20/09 11:56 AM
08/20/09 11:56 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,015
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,015
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
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The lowdeck allows a lighter rotating assembly. First off, it WILL be lighter, maybe not a ton when in an all aluminum block, but the rotating weight reduction alone is worth it, not to mention you have a touch more room for stuff in the engine bay. Pushrods get shorter, con rods get shorter,bearings get less stress, rod/stroke ratio improves for huge heads, sounds like enough to me with those items alone. We do need an aluminum low deck option.
Last edited by gregsdart; 08/20/09 11:57 AM.
8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
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Re: B1 Guys what is the max HP
[Re: CRE2004]
#444054
08/20/09 01:13 PM
08/20/09 01:13 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 8,165
Left Coast
BobR
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 8,165
Left Coast
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Quote:
Quote:
Koffel has been building B1 400 block combos for a long time. He originally designed the B1 head to fit the 400 block because it was the only Mopar block that had a chance to handle the power. So if you follow their recommendations you should have a fighting chance at getting it to live.
Not sure why nobody has made a low deck aftermarket block yet in cast iron. Seems like a natural product to have. Lots of guys don't want to switch to the taller RB block after they are all set up with the low deck combo.
What is the attraction of a low deck when building
a high horsepower combo? It's not that much shorter and the weight savings is nill. From my experience the low deck factory junk has shorter cylinders but most are all thinner than the 440's i've sonic'd. Unless it's going in an A-body with fenderwells still in it, what's the point? I'd like to hear what you guys think on this one.
I agree with you but I would never use a factory block in a race car.
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Re: B1 Guys what is the max HP
[Re: moparniac]
#444056
08/20/09 01:40 PM
08/20/09 01:40 PM
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 6,295
U.S.
moparniac
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 6,295
U.S.
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Found some cleaned up bowl numbers...... man this would be awesome like this..... until I got a race block  Lift Int. Ex. .200 139 102 .300 205 145 .400 267 183 .500 322 218 .600 358 242 .700 381 258 .800 387 268
Mopar Performance
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Re: B1 Guys what is the max HP
[Re: moparniac]
#444057
08/20/09 01:56 PM
08/20/09 01:56 PM
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Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 2,840
Flint, Michigan
B1Fish540
master
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master
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 2,840
Flint, Michigan
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Quote:
Found some cleaned up bowl numbers...... man this would be awesome like this..... until I got a race block
Lift Int. Ex.
.200 139 102
.300 205 145
.400 267 183
.500 322 218
.600 358 242
.700 381 258
.800 387 268
IMO, that could always be an option. Then when you had the bucks you could step up your program with a good block, crank, rods and then port the heads. I dont think my heads flow much more than that..maybe 390ish, but 800+ hp is enough for my Ohio crank and forged Oliver rods, But the block was something i did'nt want to chince on and forked out the cash for a Mega-block. Plus theres always the nice feature of going BIG if you ever want to..a 572 is easy to do. 
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Re: B1 Guys what is the max HP
[Re: moparniac]
#444058
08/20/09 02:28 PM
08/20/09 02:28 PM
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 573
PA
68CudaB1
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 573
PA
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Quote:
Im curious as to what a OOTB B1 head numbers are? 
We ran an OOTB B1 original head w/ T&D rockers and OOTB B1 intake for a couple years on a 3300# 68 Cuda. Engine was a low deck 500", 14:1, OOTB Ultra 1050 Dominator......
Car ran 9.20's all day long for a couple years, very consistant and very reliable.
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Re: B1 Guys what is the max HP
[Re: moparniac]
#444060
08/20/09 03:03 PM
08/20/09 03:03 PM
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 573
PA
68CudaB1
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 573
PA
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Im curious as to what a OOTB B1 head numbers are?
We ran an OOTB B1 original head w/ T&D rockers and OOTB B1 intake for a couple years on a 3300# 68 Cuda. Engine was a low deck 500", 14:1, OOTB Ultra 1050 Dominator......
Car ran 9.20's all day long for a couple years, very consistant and very reliable.
what valve size did you use with a 4.380 bore ???
2.300
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If the B1's are making that much HP I agree it would be a waste to use theses heads and not use there full capability's sory Ted. not trying to Hijack. 
