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Re: New Paint job on a budget thread. [Re: FPD031] #37754
12/10/07 06:52 PM
12/10/07 06:52 PM

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I used a PC with Poorboy's 2.5 swirl remover, followed by Poorboy's polish, and Poorboy's natty's red wax. My results speak for themselves.

I just finished rolling my last coat on a week and a half ago, and I am almost done with the detail work. I was lucky, no orange peel, bubbles or anything!



Here's a before:


After:


And where i'm currently at:

Last edited by skylark72; 12/10/07 07:03 PM.
Re: New Paint job on a budget thread. #37755
12/11/07 08:41 AM
12/11/07 08:41 AM
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Grand Haven, MI
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skylark- is that brightside or rustoleum? looks


1976 Spinnaker White Plymouth Duster, /6 A833OD
1986 Silver/Twilight Blue Chrysler 5th Ave HotRod **SOLD!***
2011 Toxic Orange Dodge Charger R/T
2017 Grand Cherokee Overland
2014 Jeep Cherokee Latitude (holy crap, my daughter is driving)
Re: New Paint job on a budget thread. [Re: patrick] #37756
12/11/07 01:53 PM
12/11/07 01:53 PM

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Quote:

skylark- is that brightside or rustoleum? looks




Thank you I used rustoleum. I'll have to get some better pictures in the sun, seeings that these were taken under my tent, but i'm extremely happy with the product. The paint is actually a combination of gloss navy blue and gloss black. It would be interesting to know if these two colors roll on differently, because i literally rolled it on and all bubles were gone within a few seconds and it selfleveled perfectly.

Wow! New to board [Re: 69DartGT] #37757
12/12/07 04:03 PM
12/12/07 04:03 PM

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I bought the magazine that pointed to this forum thread and I couldn't help but join! Warning I don't have a Mopar! Feel free to tell me to leave. I have read a significant part of the three parts but some of the stuff is too advanced for a painting rooking like me!

Now for the long boring background part. I do have a question so I will pose it up front: Working with primer, can you wet sand the primer? The primer fills the sand paper very fast (the primer has dried for about 20 hours overnight outside in Calif high humid night), but I am afraid that the water will cause rust to start under the primer. Much that I have read from other sources say that you should go through all the steps (etching, primter, sealer, paint, clear). This discussion says that the Rustoleum goes over bare metal, does that mean that I will get good long term adhesion and rust protections if do the primer and then wet sand the primer? I am using the grep primer on most with the red rust primer (looks like the old red led that we used in the Navy) on the heavy surface rust where the paint is completely gone.-- back to background:

I have a 1972 Chevy pickup that I have owned for 16 years, a 1970 Jeepster (which in a round about way makes me a distant cousin) plus other non-interesting vehicles.

After reading the article it was like a calling. My truck has needed paint since I got it. About 10 years ago I got two estimates to paint it but they were very high. The second guy told me that since there was surface rust there was no hope. That led me to believe that spending all that money would be a waste.

Now this article. Not only could I paint it myself but it wouldn't cost me my retirement. So I have started. I am retired so I have the time. I recently got a real cheap shell that I am painting at the same time. The Rustoleum Hunter Green is almost the same color as my truck. I have some body work to do (a tree limb fell on the top, I backed into a guy and mother nature got to the bottom of the front fender on one side) but since most of the 35 years have been in southern California, it is wonderful shape.

I can post pictures at anytime if there is interest. I have some before pictures and I am starting a log of my learning. Thank you all for keeping all of these three parts, with out them I may not have had the courage to start.....
john.

Re: Wow! New to board #37758
12/12/07 06:15 PM
12/12/07 06:15 PM

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Quote:

Working with primer, can you wet sand the primer?




Welcome! I'm not sure of the politically correct answer, but i wet sanded my primer before i began to paint. Rustoleum is made to prevent rust, and can adhere (to my experience) anything. I too had surface rust issues, but that was taken care of when i sanded the whole car down (with 60 grit sandpaper) before i started this whole project. There's been a couple people who say dont bother, because Rustoluem can go over rust, but it makes the surface a lot smoother and more uniform. Yes, lets see these pictures!

c20 pics #37759
12/12/07 07:41 PM
12/12/07 07:41 PM

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Truck as I got it years ago! It needed paint then!

Re: c20 pics #37760
12/12/07 07:46 PM
12/12/07 07:46 PM

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Truck as it appears today, started!

Re: c20 pics #37761
12/12/07 07:50 PM
12/12/07 07:50 PM

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Finally (for now), the 80 shell that I got a couple of weeks ago after a a first coat on roof.

Re: c20 pics #37762
12/12/07 07:54 PM
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Oh yea, the "red leaded door" with the heavy rust primer!. I hope to get it white primer tomorrow and maybe get first coat on Friday.

Re: c20 pics #37763
12/13/07 01:16 AM
12/13/07 01:16 AM
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Ok... here are my thoughts on your project... if I were doing it...

I would sand that puppy to get all the rust off.

Like the other writer said... I would be using an agressive grit for the initial ripping down of the original paint and the rusty surface areas. You might use the 60 grit for the initial ripping... but I would then do a 120 or 180 after just to minimize the 'scratches' that the coarser grit will cause. After all, primer or paint can only fill in 'so much' of the grooves that the coarser grit can cause.

I would think that the truck might be a good candidate for two coats of primer... This will give you more then enough primed thickness to work out the wetsanding etc and not find yourself taking the surface down too thin.

I don't think you should look at using aerosol bombs to spray primer on to the body. You would be better off using a roll on primer. This will give you a far thicker layer of primer and better coverage.

My personal preference, having used about five different types of primers... is the primer designed for Brightside paint. I was blown away by how much better it covered the body when I rolled it on. I think it has a higher percentage of pigment material per drop..

On the other side of the debate, I would be negligent to not mention that there are some practitioners here who have gone straight to the paint stage and bypassed the primer stage. After all, Rustoleum/Tremclad and Brightside are quite capable of going directly on to metal.

But I like the use of the primer in order to get the entire body up to one uniform starting color. As well it gives you an initial idea of any nicks, bumps, defects etc that you might want to do a little further bodywork on before proceeding to the painting stage.

One other fast HINT here is that if you are going to go the primer roll on route... cut your primer with 50% of the paint color you are going to use for the body painting. Let us say you are going to paint that truck red. The canned primer you are going to use is gray. So make a 50 / 50 mix of gray primer and the red paint.

What this will do is lay down a 'starting coat' that is closer to where you ultimately want to end up. The same story would apply to whether you were going white, black, green, blue, etc. Think of this primer hint as being like in a 500 yard dash for your project and you are cheating by starting 50 yards further down the track when the race begins. Its a cool cheat.

I would then primer the entire vehicle so that the whole body is one uniform color. This will make the addition of the paint layers much more uniform. This is especially important when dealing with a body of many colors at the start.

Yes... you can wet sand your primer once it has fully cured ( dried ). BUT what I would make sure of is that one I have completely wet sanded the entire body I would then let it fully dry. I would not want one ion of h20 left clinging to the primer.

And I don't think I would add any soap to the wet sanding of the primer. I would not want to chance any detergent being left behind attached to the primer.

Once you have done the above steps and waited a few days for it to fully dry... I would then go over it with a very very light dry sanding of the primer. This is just to give one final smoothing out of the primer.

Ok... so let us assume we have made it to this stage, I would next go to wiping the entire primered body with a slightly dampened CLEAN cloth ( dampened with mineral spirit ). This is to get any remaining foreign matter off the primered surface.

And AGAIN... let it fully dry so that any of the mineral spirits that were used to wipe down the primer have fully and absolutely evaporated. You don't want any of those mineral spirit molecules left clinging to the primer.

At this point you should be 'good to go' ahead with starting to do the roll on paint job. And one of the benefits of having 'rolled on' your primer is that you will have developed your technique for rolling - and you will have become familiar with all the surfaces and nooks and crannies of the body that they will be later painting.

Don't know if this helps any. But this is basically the recipe I would have done if I was starting with the truck I saw in your pictures.

Best of luck and welcome to the club

And out of curiousity... what color are you going to go with.. ?

Marq

Last edited by Marq; 12/13/07 01:30 AM.
Re: c20 pics [Re: Marq] #37764
12/13/07 03:03 AM
12/13/07 03:03 AM

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Marq,
Thanks for the great info. Can you be more specific on the Brightside primer? I looked on the net and found some marine stuff by Interlux. Is that what you had in mind? The red rust primer from Rustoleum is quite heavy. I posted a picture of the passenger door that I did with that.

I want it to be as close to its original color so I am going with Rustoleum Hunter Green. That is the color that I have on the shell top. I completely stripped the hood and have one coat of rustoleum primer on it. I wet sanded it this afternoon and it is looking ok. I covered the bare spots with rattle can primer to protect it for the night. After reading your post, I think I will put another coat of primer on it tomorrow.

Thanks again.
john.

Re: c20 pics #37765
12/13/07 09:38 AM
12/13/07 09:38 AM
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Quote:

Marq,
Thanks for the great info. Can you be more specific on the Brightside primer? I looked on the net and found some marine stuff by Interlux. Is that what you had in mind? The red rust primer from Rustoleum is quite heavy. I posted a picture of the passenger door that I did with that.






Yes... the Brightside primer is made by Interlux... and you can buy it in light gray or a darker blue gray. I have no problem with the Rustoleum primer though...

Quote:


I want it to be as close to its original color so I am going with Rustoleum Hunter Green. That is the color that I have on the shell top. I completely stripped the hood and have one coat of rustoleum primer on it.






One nice thing about the Hunter Green is that you can add black to it to get it even darker if you wish. You would have to refer back to our previous discussions here on creating a color sample palette to do a little sample color mixing to figure out what ratio of Hunter Green to black you might need to add to get the 'perfect' matching color...


Quote:


I wet sanded it this afternoon and it is looking ok. I covered the bare spots with rattle can primer to protect it for the night. After reading your post, I think I will put another coat of primer on it tomorrow.






The one thing that leaves me a bit leery about the spray on aerosol primers is that I often wonder just how well they penetrate the subsurface and build up an even layer on the surface. Have you ever seen those aerosol can of 'artificial snow' that you spray on windows to give your house that 'Christmas' look of frost in the windows. Some folks also use that artificial canned snow directly on their Christmas tree. Well... I look on aerosol primer as being just like that crap. Half of the 'product' ends up in the air. Lots of the stuff loses its adhesion while being propelled through the air. And even when it lands on the target, it sometimes doesn't gain enough adhesion and just 'sticks' on the surface of the target ( and easily blown off by simply blowing at it or rubbing it with your hand or when the dog walks by and brushes against it.

The canned primer that you roll on goes on 100% with no loss into the air or on to the driveway. And as the added bonus you can cut it with the paint you are planning to use to help you get a head start on laying down the real color.

Since you are heading towards a hunter green... and you are using the Rustoleum 'brownish red' primer.... I would think that a nice black rustoleum paint mixed with the red oxide primer would provide a good color base to build the subsequent Hunter Green paint layers.

.

Re: c20 pics [Re: Marq] #37766
12/13/07 04:54 PM
12/13/07 04:54 PM

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marq,

Cool ideas!
I just used the rattle can to temporary cover the bare spots where I sanded the primer yesterday. I will sand it off today before I roll on another coat of primer. Being close to the ocean, as soon as the night dew hits bare metal, you get surface rust.

I put a second coat of hunter green on the shell this morning and it is already looking very good. I am going to go back to the very early posts and see what the pioneers got after a second coat. I am not having much trouble with bubbles and very little orange peel so I must have the mix close to right.

I do have a question about roller pressure. I saw where you should go over it with just the weight of the roller after laying the paint but how hard to you press the roller when applying the paint. It makes a big difference on how thick the paint is.

And while I am typing, the center of the shell is getting roller over-lap which makes it darker, will that go away as I get more paint on?

Lessons learned, I paint outside because there is a lot less dust there (at least on a nice calm day like today). But yesterday's coat that I put on in the garage had a fair amount of dust and crap in the paint even tho I washed down the garage as best as I could--too much junk to fire hose it .

Regardless of how the truck turns out, the shell is going to far outshine my loftiest expectaions!
john

Re: c20 pics #37767
12/14/07 07:51 AM
12/14/07 07:51 AM
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Quote:



I do have a question about roller pressure. I saw where you should go over it with just the weight of the roller after laying the paint but how hard to you press the roller when applying the paint. It makes a big difference on how thick the paint is.






The question of 'how much pressure to apply' during the initial rolling or the followup bubbble popping roll is kind of hard to quantify or describe in text. It is a technique that you will develop on your own BASED on how things have gone during the course of your painting.

For myself, the trick is to not overload the roller with paint. It's not like painting a wall in your house with housepaint where you load up the roller and repeatedly go over it to spread the surplus paint on the wall. With the car, the trick is to load the roller and then unload a lot of it by repeatedly rolling it off IN THE TRAY before putting the roller on your car body.

With the car roll on paint job, you are adding only a thin layer each time. And so you apply enough pressure to transfer the paint from the roller on to the car body. What you are trying to avoid is glopping on so much paint that you start getting lines of paint on the body from where the paint tends to spread to the two ends of the roller ( where it lays on a thicker amount of paint ).

The lines that you describe happen when a little too much pressure is being applied ( as it is forcing the paint on the roller to the outer edges of the roller ).

You know you are applying too much pressure when you are getting too many bubbles. That is because the air pockets in the foam roller are being squeezed out with the paint when you are pushing down too much on the roller. Since you are not having much problem at this point with bubbles, we can assume your paint to mineral spirit ratio is probably good.

But because you are getting lines, you may be overloading the roller just a bit too much or still applying a little more pressure then you need.

IF you notice you are getting lines ( caused by the outer edged of the roller ), you have two things to keep in mind.

a ) when loading up the roller ( and then unloading the excess in the paint tray ) tilt the roller and apply a little extra pressure on each end of the roller to try to lessen the amount of paint that is gathered on the two ends of the roller.

b ) if lines happen, try to go over the area and 'work out those lines' by gently going over and over the spot to spread the concentration of paint out more. The trick here is to know when to NOT keep working over an area. Its cool to nail it in the first 20 or 30 seconds... the paint is still fresh and workable. But once the fresh layer started to cure it could lead to elephant skin if you try to work it too long.

Quote:



And while I am typing, the center of the shell is getting roller over-lap which makes it darker, will that go away as I get more paint on?







As the layers of paint 'add up', the overall paint job will finally reach a point where the maximum level of pigment on the body or panel is achieved. Once it reaches that point the car will have reached one uniform color overall. IF one area looks a little darker then the rest at the early stages or early coats, that is nothing to worry about.

I would worry if it was still noticable by the time you have six, seven or eight layers on.


Quote:



Lessons learned, I paint outside because there is a lot less dust there (at least on a nice calm day like today). But yesterday's coat that I put on in the garage had a fair amount of dust and crap in the paint even tho I washed down the garage as best as I could--too much junk to fire hose it .

Regardless of how the truck turns out, the shell is going to far outshine my loftiest expectaions!
john




I think the one thing people always have to do is to burn into their memory exactly how the project looked when it began. That is why it is a valuable reminder to oneself of exactly how things WERE.

For some reason people's brains are odd. Our brains are designed to 'fill in the blanks' and a memory of a rusto or primered vehicle or faded vehicle sometimes fade as we apply more fresh paint on to the project.

The happiest users of the roll on paint job are usually the folks who know exactly where their vehicle 'started from'. They are able to step back from their project at the end and appreciate the degree to just how much better the vehicle is 'today' compared to when it started.

So hopefully at the end of your project, you will end up with results that are equal to that of a lot of the other folks that have posted up their pictures in this message thread.

And the one thing that should give you confidence in your effort is that most of your fellow users started out at the very same point as you in this rollon technique.

Just be sure to put patience in your tool box. That will be the single biggest asset you can bring to the project. I took my time with my car... because I knew that in the end whatever I put on the car was going to be there a long time ( or else in a disaster scenario I was going to have to spend money to rip it all off and have it sprayed at a body shop ). Since shelling out big bucks to the bodyshop was not going to be possible, I took my time to get each layer as good as I could.

I guess you could say that the time you spend being picky with each layer will hopefully pay for itself with a finished product that will look good for the next couple of years.

One of the most valuable things you can do for yourself during the project is to start looking at other cars paint jos. Whether it be a brand new car sitting on a dealer's lot or some car parked next to you at the shopping mall. Soon you will have an eagle eye at spotting just how crappy even factory or body shop paint jobs really are. Fish eyes, uneven paint concentrations, areas with more shine then others.

Our problem with our projects is that we literally are working one or two feet away from our work. We see every flipping hair, bit of dust or tiny bug that lands on our paint job ahhahhaha. We tend to see every tree in the forest and it becomes hard to step back at just appreciate the entire forest. But once you start staring with an eagle eye at everyone elses 'tree' ( the cars on the dealers lot or in the parking lot or on the road ) you soon begin to appreciate that your 'tree' is equal to or better than that other guy's tree. And at that point you can also begin to appreciate how good your forest or overall paint job looks.

Actually, one benefit of doing a roll your own paint job is that you do become really good at spotting the defects or imperfections on 'real paint jobs'. I often found myself pointing out in disgust to my wife just how shoddy the paint jobs were on vehicles sitting in new car showrooms ( where you would figure that that brand new factory paint job should be the ultimate level of perfection to be envied ).

.
.

Last edited by Marq; 12/14/07 08:09 AM.
Re: c20 pics [Re: Marq] #37768
12/14/07 12:35 PM
12/14/07 12:35 PM

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Quote:

Quote:

I often found myself pointing out in disgust to my wife just how shoddy the paint jobs were on vehicles sitting in new car showrooms ( where you would figure that that brand new factory paint job should be the ultimate level of perfection to be envied )




It's soo true. I was in the mall, and they had a few new cars on display and i couldnt believe the shoty work they were presenting! Even the paint on my older cars were better than these new $35,000 cars. It's crazy. However, you're exactly correct. It has made me really appreciate the work i've put into my car, and be proud that i've given it the best chance at a good paint job that i could. And to think, i almost took it to Macco..

Re: New Paint job on a budget thread. #37769
12/15/07 08:30 AM
12/15/07 08:30 AM

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Been rolling (pun) with my all satin black paint job for a year (note, holds up great) but ready for a change, I'm keeping the satin hood, and rear taillight panel, but doing the body in "Almond" rusto. Doing the fender first to make sure I like the color, here's after 2nd coat.

Re: New Paint job on a budget thread. #37770
12/15/07 02:39 PM
12/15/07 02:39 PM

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Quote:

Been rolling (pun) with my all satin black paint job for a year (note, holds up great) but ready for a change, I'm keeping the satin hood, and rear taillight panel, but doing the body in "Almond" rusto. Doing the fender first to make sure I like the color, here's after 2nd coat.




The concept of satain black with the almond sounds and looks great! This method is just fantastic. I mean, who else can just decide to jazz up their paint job whenever they feel like? Surely not those guys with $1000 paint jobs. Plus if we ever need to touch up a spot later, we can just hit up lowes for under $10. I feel bad for those other guys

Re: New Paint job on a budget thread. #37771
12/15/07 03:39 PM
12/15/07 03:39 PM

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Quote:

Quote:

Been rolling (pun) with my all satin black paint job for a year (note, holds up great) but ready for a change, I'm keeping the satin hood, and rear taillight panel, but doing the body in "Almond" rusto. Doing the fender first to make sure I like the color, here's after 2nd coat.




The concept of satain black with the almond sounds and looks great! This method is just fantastic. I mean, who else can just decide to jazz up their paint job whenever they feel like? Surely not those guys with $1000 paint jobs. Plus if we ever need to touch up a spot later, we can just hit up lowes for under $10. I feel bad for those other guys




Excellent point! Only "Rollers" can change their paint job every year without going broke!

Re: Ace Paint ? "Color Matching" #37772
12/16/07 09:25 PM
12/16/07 09:25 PM
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NEED MORE INFO on the HVLP air gun & Clear coat & can you use Thiner?
Thanks again!,JZ`Cuda




JZ, try the Honda-Tech.com board. They have a long thread on the $50 paint job (up to 193 pages as of this afternoon). I know a few of them sprayed on Rustoleum and a couple of other paints.

What Yall Think??? [Re: batjac] #37773
12/17/07 04:58 PM
12/17/07 04:58 PM

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Hey thanks for all the help from everybody. I finished my truck about 2 or 3 months ago and I'm very pleased with the paint job.. I can say I need more work on my bodywork skills but other than that it turned out great. I didn't even final sand and polish because I was pleased with it and didn't want to mess up a good thing. But thats everybody again...


Should I keep it on the fat 15x10's or take the 22's off my car and put them on my truck???




Last edited by hunteradams7; 12/17/07 05:18 PM.
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