New Paint job on a budget thread Part III - Moparts Forums

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Re: New Paint job on a budget thread. #36434 05/23/07 02:33 PM 05/23/07 02:33 PM
A Anonymous Unregistered
Anonymous Unregistered A	well i still havent final wetsanded and polished my hood yet and to tell you the truth it almost looks good as is... almost. i'll worry about the finish when i get the rest of the car covered. http://img102.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p1010283wc7.jpg offtopic: by any chance would anyone know how to get lock lugs off with out a key.. i need to take my tires off to do some bodywork (first time iv tried taking them off since getting this car a year ago) and tada it has lock lugs so im kind of stuck

Re: New Paint job on a budget thread. #36435 05/23/07 03:21 PM 05/23/07 03:21 PM
A Anonymous Unregistered
Anonymous Unregistered A	I too experimented with spraying, and I think your downfall is going to be the small compressor. I sprayed some and it turned out good, but my small compressor 2.5 hp,30 gallons couldnt keep up and so after a few passes I would start to get weak spray and "spittle" from the gun since the pressure was dropping. I would definatly practice on a hood or something and see if you really like how it turns out. DONT use acetone as recommended. I tried and it flashed hazy since acetone evaporates in like 2 seconds, use mineral spirits. Curious to see what size compressor MyBUICK used.

Re: New Paint job on a budget thread. #36436 05/23/07 04:30 PM 05/23/07 04:30 PM
A Anonymous Unregistered
Anonymous Unregistered A	Quote: well i still havent final wetsanded and polished my hood yet and to tell you the truth it almost looks good as is... almost. i'll worry about the finish when i get the rest of the car covered. http://img102.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p1010283wc7.jpg offtopic: by any chance would anyone know how to get lock lugs off with out a key.. i need to take my tires off to do some bodywork (first time iv tried taking them off since getting this car a year ago) and tada it has lock lugs so im kind of stuck Find a socket that just fits on the outside of the luglock and beat it on. then remove. otherwise most tire stores and tool trucks sell sockets that have teeth inside so you can beat them on and remove the locks.

Re: New Paint job on a budget thread. #36437 05/23/07 06:51 PM 05/23/07 06:51 PM
A Anonymous Unregistered
Anonymous Unregistered A	Hey guys I just joined up because of this thread. I rolled the tailgate of my el camino tonight. I used 5% thinned brightside and 2 high density foam rollers, one to apply, one to work out bubbles. I followed the steps of cleaning the surface and wiping with a tack cloth. After applying it I have major orange peel. I have no idea why it isnt laying flat. Any opnions? I thinned it with interlux brushing liquid. I prepped the paint with 220 grit. Last edited by Blackwizard22; 05/23/07 06:53 PM.

Re: New Paint job on a budget thread. #36438 05/23/07 07:00 PM 05/23/07 07:00 PM
Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 125 Stockbridge, GA 7 7D9LRE member
7D9LRE member 7 Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 125 Stockbridge, GA	Exit, Thanks for putting it all together! I just found good project and thought I'd give it a try.

Re: New Paint job on a budget thread. #36439 05/23/07 08:00 PM 05/23/07 08:00 PM
A Anonymous Unregistered
Anonymous Unregistered A	Quote: Hey guys I just joined up because of this thread. I rolled the tailgate of my el camino tonight. I used 5% thinned brightside and 2 high density foam rollers, one to apply, one to work out bubbles. I followed the steps of cleaning the surface and wiping with a tack cloth. After applying it I have major orange peel. I have no idea why it isnt laying flat. Any opnions? I thinned it with interlux brushing liquid. I prepped the paint with 220 grit. u must be putting it on too heavy, i rolled brightside straight and the peel wasnt too bad. u werent doing it in the sun were u?

Re: New Paint job on a budget thread. #36440 05/23/07 08:09 PM 05/23/07 08:09 PM
A Anonymous Unregistered
Anonymous Unregistered A	Quote: Quote: Hey guys I just joined up because of this thread. I rolled the tailgate of my el camino tonight. I used 5% thinned brightside and 2 high density foam rollers, one to apply, one to work out bubbles. I followed the steps of cleaning the surface and wiping with a tack cloth. After applying it I have major orange peel. I have no idea why it isnt laying flat. Any opnions? I thinned it with interlux brushing liquid. I prepped the paint with 220 grit. u must be putting it on too heavy, i rolled brightside straight and the peel wasnt too bad. u werent doing it in the sun were u? No I didnt do it in the sun. It didnt look too thick when I rolled it? Im gonna sand it tomorrow and try again.

Re: New Paint job on a budget thread. #36441 05/23/07 10:23 PM 05/23/07 10:23 PM
A Anonymous Unregistered
Anonymous Unregistered A	i have a 6hp 30 gallon craftsman compressor and it kepped up verry well with no spitting and set to 40 psi with a water seperator and i use the 50.00 hvlp gun from eastwood 2 of them 1 for color and 1 for clear. the 2.5 i think would stay on all the time because i wont fill the tank fast enough while painting it takes me 5 min for 1 coat to lay down and the compressor kicks on once i had one fan blowing out of a window and the grage door open a foot then when i was done spraying i would open the door and let all the overspray linger out.

Re: New Paint job on a budget thread. #36442 05/23/07 10:27 PM 05/23/07 10:27 PM
A Anonymous Unregistered
Anonymous Unregistered A	take them off with a hammer and a chisel thats how the crooks steal the rims. if you have a air chisel it will work faster.

Re: New Paint job on a budget thread. [Re: Marq] #36443 05/24/07 06:07 AM 05/24/07 06:07 AM
A Anonymous Unregistered
Anonymous Unregistered A	Hey Marq, Aussie Driver or Exit, or others using Brightside....I am using Aussie Drivers ratio of Brightside, penetrol and mineral spirits. the first two coats went down fantastic, almost like glass. I did my first wet sand with 600 and then third coat...that is where things changed a little. I stated to get very small bubbles that would magicaly appear after I thought things were perfect...they came in small patches....so I did my second wetsand with 600 thinking that would clear things up. on my fourth coat I have some major orange peel and the same small patches of micro-bubbles...this all occured ONLY where I had wetsanded the previous "mistakes". so I have two questions: do you think those areas were contaminated somehow? will the final 1000/1500 wetsand and the polish remove this? or do I need to sand again with 600 and lay another coat down and then do the finalsand/polish/wax?

Re: New Paint job on a budget thread. #36444 05/24/07 07:52 AM 05/24/07 07:52 AM
Joined: May 2006 Posts: 575 Canada Marq mopar addict
Marq mopar addict Joined: May 2006 Posts: 575 Canada	Quote: .. I thought things were perfect...they came in small patches....so I did my second wetsand with 600 thinking that would clear things up. on my fourth coat I have some major orange peel and the same small patches of micro-bubbles...this all occured ONLY where I had wetsanded the previous "mistakes". so I have two questions: do you think those areas were contaminated somehow? will the final 1000/1500 wetsand and the polish remove this? or do I need to sand again with 600 and lay another coat down and then do the finalsand/polish/wax? Ok... here is what I am thinking... Imagine that you went to a tanning shop and got a lovely tan on your skin. But on your way home you tripped and your arm scrapped against a wall. What would happen is that you now have two different surfaces. One is 'well cured' ( the unscraped area with the tan ) and the other surface is the area where you scraped your skin, removed the tanned layer and exposed the skin below the top layer of skin cells. And we all know that the lower scraped surface of skin is going to have to scab ( create a new hardened outer layer ) and then heal ( reach the same level of health or cure ) as the outer layer, before you will be able to properly tan the area that was damaged. Ok... so picture this scenario over to the paint job. The paint we add to our car bodies goes on in coats. Each coat goes through three phases when you apply a layer : The first phase is when you apply a coat. In this phase the paint is one wet layer. 0000000000000000000 <....wet paint added 0000000000000000000 <.../ XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX <- body surface In the above picture the two rows of 'o' are actually all one layer of wet paint. I show it as two rows only for the convenience of showing the transition in the following pictures. ---------------------------------------------- The second phase is as that coat is drying. In this phase a skin forms on the outer layer and a wet layer exist between the subsurface and the outer 'drying or hardened' skin. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <....dried outer skin layer 0000000000000000000 <...trapped wet layer drying XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX <- body surface In the picture above that trapped wet layer is trying to evaporate its gases from the carrier through the hardening outer skin layer. ------------------------------------------- The third phase is when that coat has fully cured or hardened. In this phase the wet layer that was trapped between the outer skin layer and the subsurface has fully cured to the point where there is no difference between the trapped layer and the outer layer for dryness/hardness. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <....dried outer skin layer xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <....dried inner skin layer XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX <- body surface In this picture I am trying to show that the 'x' layer is now all one layer of fully cured paint. ------------------------------------------ Ok... my initial thought is that the 600 grit sanding may have opened up the flesh and exposed some of the still uncured paint that was still trying to evaporate the carrier ( mineral spirit ). This is a problem that we experience as humans. We tend to look at 'dry' paint as 'all' being 'dry' or 'cured' without realizing that a chemical reaction may still be occuring beneath the surface of what we see as 'dry' paint. It is not as obvious to the human eye or touch as say a layer of ice floating above a layer of water. Yet in a way this is how you have to envision things when you are painting or working on the layers of paint. You wouldn't skate on 1 inch thick ice... you would wait until the water below the ice surface has hardened and also turned to ice. If you add paint over uncured paint, where the carrier is still trying to evaporate the mineral spirit ( so it can harden ) what happens is you will get micro-bubbles. Which is basically the evaporatiing 'carrier' getting trapped under the new hardened outer skin of the fresh paint. It's like your sanded paint is swimming in the bath and farted. The gas rises to the surface and little fart bubbles break the surface of the water's tension. The answer would probably be to allow more time for the coatings to dry. Patience is a virtue and helps ensure that the previous coating is not still evaporating when you add the next coat of paint. The temperature you are working in will help determine just how long you need to wait between coats. But the key is to key in on how long it takes each coat to fully harden and not just appear to be hardened. You want each previous layer of paint to have reached the point where the trapped layer between the outer skin and the subsurface are cured to the point of being one layer and not a dry outer layer and a still curing layer beneath it. Do your sanding and walk away from the project for a few extra days. Hopefully your subsequent coats will not have any adverse reactions. Marq . Last edited by Marq; 05/24/07 08:11 AM.

Re: New Paint job on a budget thread. #36445 05/24/07 09:29 AM 05/24/07 09:29 AM
Joined: Mar 2007 Posts: 5,660 Flint, MI Gusteve I Love the Unicorn Song!!
Gusteve I Love the Unicorn Song!! Joined: Mar 2007 Posts: 5,660 Flint, MI	Quote: Rolled her out into the sun, the satin black looks better out of the garage Gene - Thanks for posting that pic. I was wondering just the other day what your car looked like out in the sun. I'm still trying to decide between satin and gloss. Hopefully I'll have the rest of my paint prep done this weekend and maybe even start rolling on Monday. I know that Satin will be A LOT easier than gloss. But I keep thinking that since I have the car all apart, I might as well try and do gloss. I probably won't have it dis-assembled to this level again for years, and hopefully never. (1 vote for Gloss) At the same time, Gloss Black is probably the hardest color to get right, not to mention that my potentially less than perfect body prep is going to show up a lot more if I try gloss. (1 vote for Satin). Could I ask you to post a couple more pics? The last one was slightly blurry, or maybe just low-res (no offense intended). If I could see a few more, it would help greatly with my final decision. Thanks!

Re: New Paint job on a budget thread. #36446 05/24/07 09:36 AM 05/24/07 09:36 AM
Joined: Mar 2007 Posts: 5,660 Flint, MI Gusteve I Love the Unicorn Song!!
Gusteve I Love the Unicorn Song!! Joined: Mar 2007 Posts: 5,660 Flint, MI	Quote: Yes, the white can with the patio furnature on it. After 3 weeks, it is really hard now, I banged it with a ratchet yesterday and didnt scratch at all. Isn't the can with the Patio Furniture on it the Rustoleum "Painter's Touch" line? I thought that was Lacquer, where the stuff from the roll-on can is enamel.

Re: New Paint job on a budget thread. [Re: Gusteve] #36447 05/24/07 12:55 PM 05/24/07 12:55 PM
A Anonymous Unregistered
Anonymous Unregistered A	Steve- If the level of dissasembly is what is holding you up consider this: Some of the cars we have built for the "rat rod" crowd (and I did on my other drag car) is to edge all of the panels, door openings etc in the color you may end up wanting (gloss). then do the body satin (or with a flattener if spraying normal single or two stage paints)and live with that for as long as you want. it will also help show imperfections, and give a better base under black if you go gloss, as chips will not show as badly. Then if you go gloss down the road the jambs and such are already edged and you can just back mask it.

Re: New Paint job on a budget thread. [Re: Gusteve] #36448 05/24/07 04:57 PM 05/24/07 04:57 PM
A Anonymous Unregistered
Anonymous Unregistered A	No, just went and looked at the cans to make sure. it says "protective enamel" in big letters. Not painters touch line.

Re: New Paint job on a budget thread. [Re: Gusteve] #36449 05/24/07 05:02 PM 05/24/07 05:02 PM
A Anonymous Unregistered
Anonymous Unregistered A	That's exactly what I did too. I tried the gloss black, but (duh) it revealed all my amatuer body work. plus I got a bunch of bugs caught in it. I did like 6 coats gloss on the hood, and really worked on it but just couldn't get it to a level that I though would pass as a "real" paint job. Black is SO hard, I have MUCH respect for Aussi and others that have made it work. The gloss is a fine base for Satin, so you could just try the gloss, if it turns out good then keep it if not, then just scuff and throw down a few coats of satin and be done with it until you win the lottery and can get a 5k paint job. Here are some more pics: http://s150.photobucket.com/albums/s97/gfeighny/ Sorry, the resolution isn't great. If you email me (gfeighny AT gmail dot com) I'll send you the full resolution.

Re: New Paint job on a budget thread. [Re: Marq] #36450 05/24/07 06:44 PM 05/24/07 06:44 PM
A Anonymous Unregistered
Anonymous Unregistered A	Marq, thanks for the reply. I have been very patient with the whole project with the exception of the last coat. I have been waiting a couple of days between laying down a coat and then wetsanding....this last coat I wetsanded, washed clean, let dry about an hour and then wiped down with mineral spirits, and the layed the fourth coat on. After thinking about it here is what has been different: temperature was a little higher with higher humidity. I was using my mixture that had been stored in a sealed container for a few days and then added some more brightside to thicken it up a little for the final coat (per your reccommendations about 100 pages ago!) what do ya think? what about the final wetsand and polish? should I do that now or sand down and lay some more coats on?

Re: New Paint job on a budget thread. #36451 05/24/07 09:35 PM 05/24/07 09:35 PM
Joined: May 2006 Posts: 575 Canada Marq mopar addict
Marq mopar addict Joined: May 2006 Posts: 575 Canada	Quote: Marq, thanks for the reply. I have been very patient with the whole project with the exception of the last coat. I have been waiting a couple of days between laying down a coat and then wetsanding....this last coat I wetsanded, washed clean, let dry about an hour and then wiped down with mineral spirits, and the layed the fourth coat on. After thinking about it here is what has been different: temperature was a little higher with higher humidity. I was using my mixture that had been stored in a sealed container for a few days and then added some more brightside to thicken it up a little for the final coat (per your reccommendations about 100 pages ago!) what do ya think? what about the final wetsand and polish? should I do that now or sand down and lay some more coats on? Humidity would definitely be a factor. The higher the humidity the longer you have to wait for it to cure. BUT humidity would not normally impact just one particular patch. It would tend to affect the whole surface. If this situation happened to me... I would rework that entire panel rather than go jumping to the polish and waxing stage. IF you can nail it perfectly, you will save yourself work during the final stages. That is one of the beauties of the 'roller' method. In that if you botch a panel.. you can simply redo that panel and the reworked panel will simply blend in with the other panels and not stand out visually as a reworked panel. Dunno... that is how I would go about it. Your long term satisfaction will probably be ensured, rather than suffering with that 'long term' 'what if I had taken that extra bit of time and effort' to perfect it... . .

Re: New Paint job on a budget thread Part III [Re: 69DartGT] #36452 05/24/07 10:25 PM 05/24/07 10:25 PM
Joined: Feb 2003 Posts: 1,665 Florida G GMP440 top fuel
GMP440 top fuel G Joined: Feb 2003 Posts: 1,665 Florida	Has anyone done any tests on the Temclad and Rustoleum paints to see how they hold up to spilled fuel and other chemicals?

Re: New Paint job on a budget thread. [Re: Gusteve] #36453 05/24/07 11:33 PM 05/24/07 11:33 PM
Joined: Jul 2006 Posts: 44 USA _ _Scott_ member
_Scott_ member _ Joined: Jul 2006 Posts: 44 USA	Something to consider regarding whether to go gloss or satin. To the trained eye, there is no difference in how one hides imperfections over the other. To the untrained eye, there is not much difference either, other than the gloss or lack thereof. I recommend that if the car looks better with a gloss finish, do a gloss finish. If your inadequate body work skills show through, then hone those skills. Don't settle for a finish you don't really want just to try to hide imperfections, because as I said, to the trained eye they will show through anyway and to the untrained eye they would go unnoticed regardless of the gloss/satin finish. And just to toss my $0.02USD in, a satin or even flat finish works on an old* rat rod, but doesn't work on a Civic for example. Not to say that it can't, just that I haven't seen anyone really pull it off yet. * where old means ~40 or more years old.

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