Yeh, I have a problem with that sometimes. I will change two things at once to fix a problem and if the problem is gone I don't know which change fixed it.

I went to Oreily's to order the Mr. Gasket spring kit (racing only) and I can't beleive how much cheaper everybody else is with the their advance springs than the mopar performance kit of 2 are. There are 3 pairs in the Mr. Gasket and they are only $6.00. Mopar's kit of 2 are 10.00 - 16.00.
If you buy from Year One they are 16.00. I haven't
bought anything from year one in about 5 years. They are way over priced. Can anyone give me some ideas on trying to remove 10-15 degrees of heat out of my engine without going to an aluminum radiator. I have a 3 row 26 inch I bought from year one 5 years ago. I think that was the last thing I bought from them! I do have a shroud but I don't have a vicious fan. How about an Edelbrock water pump? Or an aluminum housing from 440 source. Anyone buy anything from 440 Source before? If so how is the quality of their parts?

Back the timing off a couple of degrees at a time. Advanced timing will cause higher engine temps.

I don't think you will get the temp down until you get the timing straight

What fan are you using now?

What stat? Is it a high flow?

I have that cam in a 440 with a single plane intake and at 700 rpm idle it holds 14 inches of Hg. Your numbers seem low, meaning more initial timing is in order. The timing is jacked up too. The vacuum advance is limited to only 9 or 10 degrees advance, from manifold vacuum (not ported). My base timing is 20 initial and 33 total all in by 2100. This means that at idle, it has 30 degrees of advance. Also check out automotiveu.com.

The fan I have now is the stock 7 blade 18 inch and I am running the Mr. Gasket 160 degree thermastat. I have been running a 160 for probably 9 years now. Prior to the rebuild it never got past 190. I have read where some say it's best to run the 180 and some say 160 doesn't hurt anything. I will fix the timing later this week and see how it does at after that. I know I should try to get about 18-20 degrees at idle and 33-35 full advance. That is so far the plan. Joe M, what kind of dist. and advance springs are you running to get those numbers?

The distributor is an old mopar one. The big slotted spring was removed. Kept the other spring. Shortened the mech adv slots.
A 180 stat is really more suited for a street car. Better FE and emissions. The 160 at this point is doing nothing.
You may find that more timing is needed at idle and less at cruising speed.
Try hooking up a manifold vacuum gauge and advancing the base timing at idle for highest vacuum. I got to belive that with the xe268 and a dual plane intk, that 15 inHg is achieveable. And somewhere around 19 to 24 degrees for base timing. Then adjust the distributor so total mechanical is 34 to 35. To achieve the high amount of base timing, try using the vacuum advance connected from manifold vacuum.
Once the idle timing is good (the motor will cool down), adjust the idle mixture screws for best vacuum. if backing out the screws does not over richen the mixture (you will know if over rich because the vacuum will drop), then open up the idle jet by about 2 thou (drill out). Not sure what carb your using. So, I have no advice for modifying the carb.
Next thing to do, with veh in park, slowly increase the engine speed form idle (in about 100 rpm increments) to about 2500 rpm. If there is no sputtering, then you are good to go. If the engine skips or won't rev up smoothly, then it has too much timing and may be lean, especially if the exhasut manifolds get red hot. The vacuum advace may be adding 18 degrees, but with your quicker mech advance, 18 may be too much. the vacuum advance may need to be reduced to supply 10. Reduce the timing and try the rpm sweep again. You can move the distributor on the car before taking it out to modify anything. A good timing light (dial back) is also needed. If you think the timing is right, but still gets hot at cruise, then more fuel may be needed. Hope you had a chance to read some of the articles from automotiveu.com

We had a member recently that posted he had a hot running 440 that cooled down by running higher octane gas, after throwing the book at it with every tip we could come up with on here.

I checked out that web site and man there is alot of information there! I am running the 650AVS carb. I beleive this carb. setup is a little lean due to the fact that I used to have a carter 625 with main jets that were .005 bigger. Man with all this information on tuning dist., and carb. it feels like I am in a maze and can't find the exit! I just don't have the experience for this. I used to be just a stock running engine guy before and never really worried about all this tuning! If anyone out there that can help me and lives in the Cincinnati area and can come help me with this tuning stuff please let me know!

With these strange tuning quirks and low cranking comp, I think this points to the cam being off.

What did it degree in at?

Yet another example of why even reading the question and answer forum makes my blood boil.


The main problem is a simple one. The fact that his timing was set a bit aggressive, and that he has a 160 degree thermostat and that the engine is undercarbed merely just aggravated it a little.

The engine has a MANIFOLD VACUUM LEAK. Plane and simple. You guys should have picked up on that in that the idle is inconsistent, and increases the more he drives and the engine is run longer while being so lean and the chambers get hotter and angrier, and also for the fact that he had the base timing pretty well up there, yet the vacuum was only 11 inches.
That lift and duration of camshaft in a split pattern with that compression should pull at least 15-16 inches of vacuum, and that would be with not too terribly much timing and the idle set lean (i.e. a bit of a worst case scenario for idle conditions).

Those who replied to the post before me must be the same group that called me stupid for mentioning a vacuum guage as the thing to have if someone were to get only one tool period for timing and tuning a carbuerated engine.

The original poster even expressed a concern about his phenolic spacer possibly not having a uniform sealing surface, and you guys didnt pay attention.

Ok, so original poster: I would like to offer you some actual help here. Get rid of that phenolic spacer, or buy a new one if you are unsure about it.
Remove and reseal the intake using ultra black RTV on every bit of sealing surface all around the bottom side of the valley pan gasket, and around every bit of port sealing surface on the top side of it. Also put RTV on the threads of all of your intake bolts, and torque the bolts properly at 35 ft lbs or there abouts. THEN you may retime your engine, and THEN you may redo the fuel mixture, and THEN check the manifold vacuum with a vacuum gauge and if it is still low and incosistent, ckeck anythign else that may be privy to said vacuum; whether it be the vacuum Tee on the intake, brake booster, nippled off ports on the intake or carb, PCV valve and hose, etc.

I hope the best for ya man. Get that top end resealed. I don't care if its a new motor. If you didn't build it, then why would you believe that the intake and valley pan weren't tossed on there more or less dry, etc?

Rant off, and guys, get your heads out of the clouds of complicated custom engine runability theory.

I am sure all of us are so glad you're around Greenblur. How would we ever survive without your condesending know it all posts. If you want to help then try doing it without all the comments.They aren't necessary and make you sound like the south end of a north bound horse.

Why do you bother reading it if it upsets you so? It seems like a simple thing to end.

Why do people look at car crashes?

I was the one that originally put the intake on and like I have done to all the intake valley pans gaskets I have put on this engine prior to the rebuild I put black sealant on heads and intake before bolting down and torquing. I also after a couple of weeks thought it was the intake so I pulled it off and put new valley pan with sealant and I still had the same symptoms after that. Yes I did more or less toss the phenolic spacer when I realized that was what was causing the fluctuation in rpm's. Like I said I at one time for a couple of days had an Edelbrock 750 on it and it was pulling 13 inches of vac. at idle. I have been tinkering with engines for years but this tuning of dist. and carb. I am ignorant to!
I still think my timing is way off along with my carb. running lean which is probably what is causing most of my problems. My set of dist. springs will be in tomorrow so I will be working on that. As far as the degreeing of the cam, the guy that built my engine has been doing it for years and he set the cam straight up per compcams recommedation due to all their cams having 4 degrees advanced machined into them already. I have no vacuum tees or power brakes just good old fashion 833 4 speed. The intake is mopar perf. dual plane and about 2 years old. There was at one time about a week or two after I got the engine back that I started working on the dist. springs and I know I had it dialed in at idle 15 degrees and 35 total in at around 2400-2500. Then I guess about 2-3 weeks later I rechecked it and the timing at idle was down to 10 degrees. That must have been about the time that spacer started leaking. I think the overheating of engine and the fact that I probably took off carb. and spacer at a time when it was real hot so maybe that is when it warped on me. Like I said it is out of flat approx. .002. I will spend the next couple days working on dist. advance and timing
then I will get back.

So your idle varies a little with temp A 383 engine at 205 is NOT OVERHEATING. I really believe this is a case of a cam that a bit radical compared to stock. Either live with it or change it back to stock. On a 69 383 road runner I run the timing at 42 total with at least 15 initial or more No vacuum with stock cam exhaust and 3.55s it will run 14.3 at 97 on street tires and a high 80 day. Enjoy the car and quit worrying aboiut nothing