Been working on first set of these I've done....

Out of box, W/2.15 Ferrea Comp Plus

LIFT---IN
.100"--68.7
.200"--147.1
.300"--212.9
.400"--268.6
.450"--286.6
.500"--294.4
.550"--303.6
.600"--312.4
.650"--324.3
.700"--321.6

ICH claims 330 @ .700" in their literature.

I did a VJ, and a 10 minute seat/ST blend:

LIFT---IN
.100"--69.6
.200"--146.8
.300"--210.2
.400"--265.7
.450"--292.0
.500"--310.3
.550"--320.9
.600"--331.9
.650"--331.9
.700"--331.9

I was'nt happy with the shape/size of the ICH short turn so.... another 45 minutes of work....(also opened Pushrod area .100")

LIFT---IN
.100"--69.6
.200"--143.6
.300"--210.2
.400"--268.9
.450"--294.2
.500"--312.6
.550"--331.2
.600"--343.6
.650"--351.4
.700"--360.8

Misc notes:
Actual Min CSA of the out of box port..... 2.85" 245 CC
Actual Min CSA of my 360 cfm port......... 2.95" 255CC
Intake manifold fitment is a definite concern, as the out of box port window is 2.4" tall. So after port matching the 360-3R ICH manifold you have ~.060" of gasket sealing area above the port.

The exhaust port and chamber are basically the same as the 230 CC CNC -2 head.

and thats your first set?

it looks like you found something to outdue the w5's in 59 degree.what about the exhaust side? oh i just reread your post and saw the exhaust post.looks like that head will need some help on the exhaust with more cam on that side.with that cross section a 4 inch stroker motor with the right parts of course ought to be able to see 7400 rpm before choke.

These heads are being done for a new motor my uncle is building. It will be a siamese bore tall deck 59* r3 block. It will be 439ci. 14-1comp, roller cam on alcohol. It will be going in my new drag car. A 69 dart 3000lb, ladder bars and coil overs 29.5x11.5 tire. Converter will be bought after dynoing, 727trans and a dana 60. What do you think it will run at 200ft above sea level.

you the man Ryan nice #'s

How much do these heads cost?

i find that interesting. here's the flow numbers you provided with a set you did for a customer of mine. they weren't cnc'd ports but these were supposed to be a max port job. i thought it would be worth a look to compare to your new findings.

.100"--82.8/N/A
.200"--157.3/110.4
.300"--217.4/158.0
.400"--262.9/203.6
.450"--286.0/214.6
.500"--304.0/221.9
.550"--318.1/227.1
.600"--322.4/230.5
.650"--332.9/237.4
.700"--334.0/241.2

SDSS is now an INDY CYL HEAD distributor

Nice

good info Ryan, I am guessing you kind of like the 360-1s now

INTAKE PORT

230 CC CNC -2 OVAL VS 245 CC CNC -1 RECTANGLE

230 CC CNC -2 INTAKE PORT, keep in mind, if you've never seen these heads in person, for getting a feel for how big the 245 head is, a normal W2 head fully ported is in the 195 CC range. So the 230 CC Oval ICH is a BIG Oval, and the 245 rectangle dwarfs it. The actual minimum CSA of the 230 CC CNC -2 is 2.52" Someone wanted to know taht a few months ago, and I just got around to measuring it today.

245 CNC next to an unported -1 rectangle, the roof of the 245 is raised .275", and the port is widened .050"

The 245 has a very wide ST, and I moved the head bolt bulge over, and widened it even more to slow the air down.

-3 Manifold. You can't really raise the roof of the port as far as it needs to be to do a perfect match, hence the need for a raised runner intake manifold. So I just took it up and left .080" for gasket sealing. Going to have to make custom gaskets as the ICH -1 gaskets run out of material at the roof.

My prediction 9.35@145. Ryan why not use a W8 Intake with this all you have to do is mill it down to fit. Then port and bolt match and then hog out the intake to move the big air.

Alright, I've heard alot of people claim that these heads are too big for sub 416" motors but its all relative to the RPM that your turning. How much RPM would you say would be required with these heads on say a 394" motor. I can understand the too small cid vs. too big of a head on a street motor but what about the guys that dont care about street driving. These heads look pretty killer.

That is killer, man. Great work.

Lee

Those look like the heads to have...and they are available, right Ryan? I ask because it seems like all the really good small blk heads are hard to find...like the W5, 7,8 etc.

hey ryan, what does that 230 -2 flow? with that csa a 340 should be able to reach 8000 rpm.

---

to give you an idea,on a 345 cid engine with the right combo it should be able to reach 9300 rpm.wow!

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YEAH! Thats what Im talkin aboot!!

Yea you will also loose your excitement real fast when you find out the price of over 5000.00 dollars

I have friends spending that much on Stock cylinder heads for NHRA Super Stock applications. Im talking stock iron heads. Any they still dont work ANYTHING like these heads. Performance costs $$$$$

Money is not the prob

If you have plenty of money why would you build a 59* motor in the first place unless you are class racing.

If you got the cash build a 48* motor and for 5000.00 bucks you can get a nice set of W8's and make some real HP.

I just think that is too much dough for 59* stuff

Ryan that short turn work sure did bring it to life

I agree...i would just get some w8's for the same price..if it was a 48*...

Steve

Even though my heads were used,but i think the rockers were new.either way ryanj hooked me up with a set of W8 heads,rockers and valve covers for $2500.

To answer some questions.....

As for 59* limiting RPM... I'd say somewhere around 8200-8400 would be about as high as I'd want to turn a 59* motor on a consistent basis.

How much RPM would a 394 need? I dunno, What bore/stroke? I assume a 3.79 crank? It would depend on the whole combo not just the CID. These heads certainly are not for evryone.... Actually I won't sell a set of -1 245's unless I believe the combo they are going on is correct for them. I don't want someone putting too big of a head on their motor and be unhappy, when the 230 or even the 210 Oval would have been a better choice. These heads are mostly for pure drag engines, not really a great street head unless it is a BIG CID engine. The 230 will be a much better choice for most 408-416 street/strip motors with limited compression.

Quicktree: the 245 is quite a bit bigger than what you have on there now, so a 366 would'nt be a 7000 RPM piece anymore with a set of these on, the cross section would move the TQ and HP band up quite a bit, and not everyone wants a 6200 stall converter....

OriginalB1: yes theya re sitting on shelf at ICH, so that is the #1 advantage of dealing with the INDY stuff. Everyone (including myself) knows they (ICH) have "issues" and I'm not saying they are greatest compny in world, but it is nice to actually have some killer parts that ARE available whenever you want them. No offense to MP, but the ICH stuff in terms of power (both intakes and heads) is light years ahead of what is available from MP for 59 degree heads, plus there is no back order to deal with and their QC is getting better as far as surface finish of the decks, and guide sizing. Plus you don't have to deal with the 3/8 guide pain that most MP heads make you deal with.

I don't have my #'s for the 230 CNC here, they are usually in the 320's, it's killer head for alot of engine combos.

As far as these heads being $5K to bolt on.... well that's true, but so is a really good set of W5's to be honest. By the time you buy a set of cstings for $1000-$1200, have them ported, guides changed to 11/32, honed, surfaced, VJ, drainbacks done, INDY intake, milled to fit, port matched, and all good retainer/lock/spring/valve/seal/rocker combo...... It's right around $5K. I mean to be honest, most of the guys running 10.20-9.50's with a 59* SB in a 3000+ lb car do not have cheap induction systems. Some guys get lucky and buy a used set of W2's or something for $1500 and go out and run 9.90's etc but you can't compare a used set of iron heads to a brand new set of aluminum CNC heads. It's apples and oranges in terms of almost everything.

As for putting 59* heads on a 48* block.... it's not that big of a deal, and unless you are using a J head, intake sealing is not a problem. Liek I mentioned on Vic's set I'm going to angle mill them (for several performance reasons) but also the added benefit will be helping the pushrod angle out since they are going on a 48* block with Jesels.

On teh right combo, there is no reason this 245 head converted to 255, can't match or beat the preformance of alot of smaller (more common) W7/8/9 heads. Now granted they will never match a big W7/8/9 in terms of power, but those heads are hard to locate and buy cheaply. The big thing these new heads will do is open up a new generation of what I call "cookie cutter" engines. Anyone on this board can now sit in their home, open a catalog, and basically order all the parts they need to just bolt together a very basic no frills combo, that should push any A body into the 9's without much effort at all. The only "hard" part to aquire right now is a good race block. Other than that, throw a 950-1050 carb on an ICH intake, with either the 230 or 245 CNC head, a decent size roller cam, a callies crank, a set of CompStar or Eagle etc. H beams, an off the shelf Diamond Flat top, and put at least a 1 7/8 header on it.... very basic 416 motor, that will make 630-680 HP on ANY dyno and run in the 9's in an A body. You don't need custom headers, external water/oil lines, dry sumps, belt drives, custom oil pans, sheetmetal intakes, multiple carbs, nitrous, blower etc anymore to make the power to run mid 9's @ 3200 lbs like you used to. Are they cheap to build? No... a Big Block is certainly a much cheaper way to do it, but if you want to do it with a SB, all the parts are now in place in the aftermarket to make the power, and make it safely. It's just something that has not been available in the past. It's just unreal how far the aftermarket has come for SB Mopar parts in the past 5-10 years. Now if we could just get some new race blocks....

And the man has spoken

Well said

I've thought about going smll blk in the cuda some day(so i can run in the heads up class at milan)now I know what combo to get!

Ryan is def. The Man, actually a LEGEND IMPO.....HE needs to write a book for us SB guys/(GIRLS) HE could make thousands I am sure.....
I as a female have learned a lot from him...
Thanks Ryan

ok ryan g out of oregon, post some pics of the mew car, now that the cat is outa the bag

Ryan....
your gonna Pressure check these right?

cheapst..

i guess you are right R/J. web page

360-1-245 cnc heads intake and t&d 1.6 rocker on shady dell bench 338 @650 and same on my mate bench ,wee stripped heads cleaning up castings and seat to port slight lip they went to 348 @650 .lost 15 cfm with intake,will play with that soon.

I'll keep this ,thanks!

I think Ryan should wright a SB Mopar Performance book.... I would buy it and Im a BB guy,,,,,

Old topic, but very interestign one, so, i have a 420 sb x-block stroker, 4.125"molnar crank, with molnar chevy rods, ross pistons 11:1/63cc. And thinking to go with indy 360-1, but are these 245cnc 2.14"/1.65" heads too big for me. street/strip car and i can get that cr up to 11.5:1.(pump gas) I go with solid roller cam (it will be custom one). How about that 2.14 intake, is it too close to touch cylinder, i have a small bore 4.03".

I'm running Raised port versions of the 360-1 cnc 245 heads, they have 2.100"/1.625 valves and while close they clear 4.030 bore.

Ok, i know these 360-1 heads are made for 360cid (4.00")bore to->???, but like you say, desinged for 2.1" intake valve. That x-block what i use is brand new, newer used, purchased late 80, early 90's. Block is measured by machinist and he tell me that 4.03" is biggest bore what i can use. There is .070" left in non thrust face side.
I purchased custom piston from ross and and pistons are made for 2.1" intake and 1.625"exhaust, valve reliefs are 2.200"&1.75". I'm asking because there is 360-1 245cnc heads for sale on this forum.
So, opinions??anyone??can i go with these heads, and are they too big for me?

I have a set of 360-1s with a 2.100" intake and a 4.030" 360 block if you need a measurement.

Can you do that?.

This afternoon.

With the head on the block with NO gasket. .600" valve lift .086" valve to wall, .700" valve lift .082" valve to wall. I used my numbered drill bit set to measure, these numbers aren't exact I'm sure but it gives you a good idea.

Future reference

Ok, thanks man. Looks like it's very close if i go with 2.14"iv heads. ~.04",hmmmm, it's not much, but it's enough.:)
That low CR (11:0), is what i'm thinking next, is it too low, or how that shortblock work with those heads? When i purchase that x-block i was sure that i can go at least 4.08" pistons but no, not this time. But maybe i have to try how these massive heads works on "small" bottom engine???

Your welcome. What's the chamber cc?

63cc. Heads are for sale here in moparts, september, page5, i think it was B1 who have them.

Mine were untouched when I bought them, they were all 66-67ccs. After hand porting they are 70.

Ok, that 63cc is what seller told me. And they are RP heads.
If we look at just flownumbers (SDSS),and compare w5 stage 3<->360-1RP flownumbers, they are almost identical. Both heads is flow tested in same bench by Ryan J.
But how big is w5 intake runner after stage 3 port job??230-240cc??
That w5 is another head option, but hard to find unfortunately.

There is a W-5 top end for sale on page 2 Sept. race parts for sale, post #1907266. I don't know the seller and know nothing about the heads.

yes, i know, those are with 2.14/1.60 valves but not sure about combustion chamber size etc.

I have no history or knowledge on the 245 Indy head, but I can give you some info on my 360-2 230cc heads. I ran these heads on a basic 408 (4.030 bore X 4" crank)

Indy moved the exhaust valve location .030 away from the intake valve, I'm assuming to be able to get that big 2.10 and 1.625 valve in them. We ran into a problem with radial clearance on my exhaust valve relief because of this ( Diamond shelf 4" crank Pistons.) luckily I had enough deck and the valve wasn't into the valve relief (.690 roller)

Another thing to be aware of is that chamber size seems to change depending on heads. My heads were only decked .010 to clean up the surface, and the valve job was redone. I ended up with 73cc chambers... I know another guy who's heads have 68cc chambers and they hadn't been milled. Now mind you, these heads have the CNC, so that will slightly enlarge the chamber.

Just some things to be aware of before purchasing. I love my Indys and they make good power otherwise. I will be putting them on a 427 (4.060x4.125") motor in the future.

Oh,thanks 340_Dart, big differences between cc's. I have a custom pistons, but designed for 2.1"/1.625" valves and 63cc,->11.0:1 CR. It's hard decision...what a rookie mistake purchase pistons before heads, but i trust that chambers is what they have printed in catalog. 67-68cc after porting is not bad but everything above it, it's too much i think.
Every RPMs has been 63cc OOTB what i've been measured, thats very good "quality".

Dustin (Triple Threat) has his B1-BA-MC heads for sale on page 5.... pretty good deal for the hp he was putting down. He lost a rod, hurt his R3 block and is moving on to a different program.

They're either 63 or 65cc, can't remember right now.

That's a nice top end, but i think valve angle is 15°, 2.15" intake valve is way too big for 4.03" bore, massive intake runner, bigger than 245cc??. And then, you have to move alternator and make some brackets too. And i dont know valve positions either. But looks awesome . And price is good too.

So, what happened to the OP? Ryan used to post here a lot and had a bunch of fanboys who thought he was the small block go-to man.

not to sure but i think he had some issues with a few members here and doesnt post anymore.he built me the best engine ive ever owned in terms of reliablity and power gave me exactly what was expected.guess cant please everyone.....

I had good.... and some not so good experiences with Ryan. To be honest, it wasn't entirely his fault.... but the way he handled things, I wouldn't go back. It's water under the bridge.

If it was mine I would run the 360-1 with some port work or the cnc 230s with 2.100 valves.

They fit your pistons and give you some room to the cylinder wall to breathe. Also the castings are happier. A lot of the cnc245s either need to be welded up before you can use them or after a short run time.

After few posts and one PM by this forum users, i decide to purchase 360-2 230cnc heads. But does anyone else have a cnc program for -2 heads, i mean anyone else than indy or musclemotors. I mean that they will need some handporting/"cleaning" as well after cnc porting, and it would be great if same shop/dealer can do everything they need?? IMM for exsample??? Or is there big differences between cnc porting prices??

I have a set done by Brian at IMM. He did a great job, they work like gangbusters and the don't leak. Oh yeah, Brian's a GREAT GUY too.

Call Brett Miller, My 360-2 cnc were done by him. He stays pretty busy though.

Kinda sad reading an older post and so many are no longer with us or no longer in the business or posting.