Having trouble with spongy brakes. They are manual drum brakes, everything is new from shoes,hoses,wheel cylinder, mastercylinder. Have been bled numerous times but I still have to much pedal travel unless I pump the pedal. I did bleed the mastercylinder and then the entire system, so what am I missing? Is it the wrong mastercylinder?

thanks for any
scott

Have you tried readjusting the brakes and did you break them in gently?

Yes I have adjusted them, but I'm not sure how tight I should adjust them out. they have some drag now, i thought that was enough. No they really have not been abused.

thanks scott

Scott,

There are only a couple things it could be. Drum brakes need to be adjusted. Adjust them until there is a slight drag on the drum from the shoes. Also take the drums off andverify the shoes are against the atop anchor pin. Make sure the e-brake cable lever on the shoe is all the way back. Make sure you have absolutely no leaks. If all else fails bleed again. Make sure you dont have a sinking pedal while holding down on the brake pedal. That might be concern for a leak. Hope this helps you.

residual pressure valve not working, allowing the shoes to fully retract into the wheel cylinders?

internally leaking master cylinder?

I agree...pump them up till the pedal gets hard, and then hold pressure on it to feel if it slowly sinks to the floor.

that'll tell you if you have a leak or not

pedal is steady you can stand on it and it wont go down any further, just travels to far to begin with. I will check the e brake cable, and also re check the drag. I just wonder if I could have gotten the wrong master cylinder and I'm fighting a loosing battle until i change it?

thanks
scott

Did you check to make sure the arc on the shoes mached the arc on the drums?

No I did not could that cause this problem?

thanks for the input guys
scott

How did you bleed the Master and the brakes?

When I bled the mastercylinder i used the adapters tapped into the ports and the hoses run into the resovior. to bleed the brakes I have had someone pump them up and also tried to gravity bleed them.

thanks
scott

Quote:

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Have been bled numerous times but I still have to much pedal travel unless I pump the pedal.

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You still have air in the system. Make sure air is not getting back into the system before you close the bleeder screw.

Sounds good I will do this tomorrow, but one question can you spoon them out tight and then back them off with self adjusters-I thought they would lock in that posistion? They are also 4 wheel drums.

thanks for all the help
scott

yes you do need a very thin slightly bent screwdriver hold the adjuster back. It is a pita but it shifts the assy & takes all the play out & works better than just adjusting them & skipping that. W 4 wheel drums I would check the M/C(w both brass plugs) then hookup the front drums(rear M/C still capped)& adj/bleed out the front drums(wheels off ground & spin each one by hand(forward) & listen for the "tick" & adj & with your pedal then good uncap/hookup the rears & repeat.

RRobert knows his stuff.

My two cents:
- If the ONLY problem is pedal TRAVEL, and not braking ACTION, then something is not right at the drum mechanism or shoes.
- If the problem is that you have a lot of TRAVEL AND POOR BRAKING action, then I think you have MC/air/bleeding issues.

Also a couple basic things, and I don't mean to imply you didn't already know this:

1. Start bleeding the brakes at the rear passenger wheel, the rear driver's then do fronts last.

2. This was already said, but worth repeating: When you open the bleeder at the drum and have your assistant apply the brakes, make sure he doesn't release the brake pedal until after you've closed the bleeder screw. Then he can lift the brake pedal for the next 'bleed'.

3. If the mechanisms at the drum are working, the automatic brake shoe advancers actuate when you travel in reverse and brake. You can usually hear the click(s). So, instead of a lot of spooning, I've had proper results letting the shoes adjust themselves tight to drum automatically by driving in reverse and braking assertively. Sometimes the adjusters aren't working tho' so try RRobert's recommendation to get that right for troubleshooting purposes.

Best, -Art

A big thank you to everyone for your input, the pedal is now rock hard!! it only travels a couple inches. They feel much better. I think the issue was the method I used to bleed the master cylinder, it left some air in the system, the plug method is far superior.

thanks
scott