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Re: Milodon dual oiling question [Re: Z_Z] #3274606
12/07/24 12:06 PM
12/07/24 12:06 PM
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sr4440 Offline
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Just something to look at, but the only way the engine will stay running is if the drive tang from the distributor hits the bronze gear. I really think your issue is in the valve train/cam/ lifter area.


Without Data, you’re just another guy with an opinion.
Re: Milodon dual oiling question [Re: Al_Alguire] #3274615
12/07/24 12:44 PM
12/07/24 12:44 PM
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Will do Al,

I replaced the o ring for S&Gs that goes into the block since i took the pump back out. I will prime motor while spinning it here shortly, then ill pull valve covers and intake next

Thank you for your help

Re: Milodon dual oiling question [Re: sr4440] #3274618
12/07/24 12:47 PM
12/07/24 12:47 PM
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It was running, i just didnt keep it running for long at all with the low oil pressure

I will problby pull everything off and see here soon.

Thank you

Re: Milodon dual oiling question [Re: Z_Z] #3274677
12/07/24 04:01 PM
12/07/24 04:01 PM
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Stanton Online content
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So just for the hell of it ...

The heading is "dual oiling question". The "pump" is a stock style pump. Therefore to be a dual system it has to have the plate between block and pump for the second line.. That plate requires the longest intermediate shaft. Since priming with a drill provides pressure but the running engine doesn't, the shaft could "possibly" be the issue. Worth measuring !!

Re: Milodon dual oiling question [Re: Stanton] #3274699
12/07/24 05:20 PM
12/07/24 05:20 PM
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A727Tflite Offline
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Originally Posted by Stanton
So just for the hell of it ...

The heading is "dual oiling question". The "pump" is a stock style pump. Therefore to be a dual system it has to have the plate between block and pump for the second line.. That plate requires the longest intermediate shaft. Since priming with a drill provides pressure but the running engine doesn't, the shaft could "possibly" be the issue. Worth measuring !!


If you get oil pressure with the tool and low with the intermediate shaft running the pump - wild a$$ guess - make sure the shaft is not broken loose in the gear and spinning within the gear.

Last edited by A727Tflite; 12/07/24 06:42 PM.
Re: Milodon dual oiling question [Re: A727Tflite] #3274776
12/08/24 11:14 AM
12/08/24 11:14 AM
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I’d have someone turning the crank slowly while you use the drill, with intake off. After checking the drive gear. If engine is running at 800 rpm the oil pump is turning 400, same as most heavy duty reversible drills. Losing pressure while running means something is opening up a huge leak (lifters going up to high will do that) the reason for turning while drilling. All else is static (with clearances)

Re: Milodon dual oiling question [Re: cudaman1969] #3274799
12/08/24 12:24 PM
12/08/24 12:24 PM
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Originally Posted by cudaman1969
I’d have someone turning the crank slowly while you use the drill, with intake off. After checking the drive gear. If engine is running at 800 rpm the oil pump is turning 400, same as most heavy duty reversible drills. Losing pressure while running means something is opening up a huge leak (lifters going up to high will do that) the reason for turning while drilling. All else is static (with clearances)


Had a race engine with roller lifters uncovering the lifter bores. Had decent pressure when 1500 or higher, at idle would drop to 10-20 lbs.

Re: Milodon dual oiling question [Re: Stanton] #3274976
12/09/24 09:18 AM
12/09/24 09:18 AM
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Marion, South Carolina [><]
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Originally Posted by Stanton
So just for the hell of it ...

The heading is "dual oiling question". The "pump" is a stock style pump. Therefore to be a dual system it has to have the plate between block and pump for the second line.. That plate requires the longest intermediate shaft. Since priming with a drill provides pressure but the running engine doesn't, the shaft could "possibly" be the issue. Worth measuring !!

Unless he's using both ports on the pump cover for pickups. Then he wouldn't need the plate b/t the pump and the block.


CHIP
'70 hemicuda, 575" Hemi, 727, Dana 60
'69 road runner, 440-6, 4 speed, Dana 60
'71 Demon 340, no drivetrain, on blocks behind the barn
'73 Chrysler New Yorker, 440, 727, 8.75
'90 Chevy 454SS Silverado, 476" BBC, TH400, 14 bolt
'06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax
Re: Milodon dual oiling question [Re: an8sec70cuda] #3274997
12/09/24 10:50 AM
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I do have the plate.

I had it all back together yesterday primed and had it running with 50 lbs of pressure, then lost it.

So is the best move next, is to pull valley inspection cover off and look in there?

Re: Milodon dual oiling question [Re: Z_Z] #3275008
12/09/24 11:35 AM
12/09/24 11:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Z_Z
I do have the plate.

I had it all back together yesterday primed and had it running with 50 lbs of pressure, then lost it.

So is the best move next, is to pull valley inspection cover off and look in there?


When did this issue start?

Assuming the engine ran fine at one point now it is acting up ?

Re: Milodon dual oiling question [Re: Z_Z] #3275009
12/09/24 11:37 AM
12/09/24 11:37 AM
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Do you have the correct length (longer than stock) oil pump driveshaft? It has to be longer due to the extra thickness of the plate b/t the pump and the block.


CHIP
'70 hemicuda, 575" Hemi, 727, Dana 60
'69 road runner, 440-6, 4 speed, Dana 60
'71 Demon 340, no drivetrain, on blocks behind the barn
'73 Chrysler New Yorker, 440, 727, 8.75
'90 Chevy 454SS Silverado, 476" BBC, TH400, 14 bolt
'06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax
Re: Milodon dual oiling question [Re: an8sec70cuda] #3275015
12/09/24 11:53 AM
12/09/24 11:53 AM
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Since it was working at one point and not is not makes me wonder if it is just aerating the oil.


"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."

"It's never wrong to do the right thing"
Re: Milodon dual oiling question [Re: an8sec70cuda] #3275041
12/09/24 01:19 PM
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Chip the intermediate shaft is almost flush with the block

I meant to take a picture of that and didn't. 

Re: Milodon dual oiling question [Re: Z_Z] #3275104
12/09/24 04:26 PM
12/09/24 04:26 PM
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Stanton Online content
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Quote
Chip the intermediate shaft is almost flush with the block


?? At the bottom ??

So its running and has 50 psi and the nothing ?!?!

Would seem to be:

a) pump has stopped turning or
b) has run out of oil

One point I want to make - don't know how important it will be but I'll mention it anyway 'cause nobody else has ...

My experience with the aluminum plate and cover is that the pump is very sensitive to being bolted on. I have never been able to bolt that assembly to the block with any more than about 10 ft.lbs of torque on the bolts. Any more and the pump binds drastically. I put the pump together on the bench and torque the two short cover bolts and check that the pump spins freely. When I install the pump I use red loctite on all the bolts. Try them at factory torque and check for binding - which it always does. Back them all off then retighten with 5 pounds less and check again. But 10 ft.lbs always seemed to be the magic number.

Re: Milodon dual oiling question [Re: A727Tflite] #3275119
12/09/24 05:24 PM
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Originally Posted by A727Tflite
Originally Posted by Z_Z
I do have the plate.

I had it all back together yesterday primed and had it running with 50 lbs of pressure, then lost it.

So is the best move next, is to pull valley inspection cover off and look in there?


When did this issue start?

Assuming the engine ran fine at one point now it is acting up ?


I’ll ask again. When did this all start. Out of the clear blue sky of did you repair or replace something.

Re: Milodon dual oiling question [Re: A727Tflite] #3275144
12/09/24 07:36 PM
12/09/24 07:36 PM
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Sounds like it's running out of oil. Either it's sucking air and loosing the suction. Or the pan is sucking up to the pickup.

Did you use the floor jack on the oil pan to jack it up??? 😂

Trade you a Camaro lol

Re: Milodon dual oiling question [Re: FastmOp] #3275206
12/10/24 06:46 AM
12/10/24 06:46 AM
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I haven't read through the replies but I'd bet your problem is the lifters are bleeding oil pressure at max cam lift. What is the cams lobe lift and what lifters are you using?

Re: Milodon dual oiling question [Re: HardcoreB] #3275260
12/10/24 12:10 PM
12/10/24 12:10 PM
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FWIW a .600 lift cam will expose the oil passage unless you use a shrouded lifter. Although no longer available Crane 66550 are a shrouded roller lifter with roller oiling.

Re: Milodon dual oiling question [Re: Stanton] #3275266
12/10/24 12:58 PM
12/10/24 12:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Stanton
FWIW a .600 lift cam will expose the oil passage unless you use a shrouded lifter. Although no longer available Crane 66550 are a shrouded roller lifter with roller oiling.


Wouldn't that depend on the base circle diameter?


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Re: Milodon dual oiling question [Re: sr4440] #3275337
12/10/24 06:43 PM
12/10/24 06:43 PM
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Well like fast says concerned about the oil pan, I think maybe i should start there, pull it off see if i see anything evident? Make sure that's good. Then go to the lifter gallery.

I'm not sure what lifters are in it, I didn't put this together I bought it with low runs on it.

Thanks everyone

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