Dana 60 / Wilwood?
#3263069
10/09/24 04:12 PM
10/09/24 04:12 PM
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,139 Byesville, Ohio
Tomsecks
OP
super stock
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OP
super stock
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,139
Byesville, Ohio
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Haven't posted here in AGES - so please take it easy on me. Looking to get a Strange S60 built for my Swinger; it won't be stock measurements. Am in the process of starting to mock something up with the wheels I have to ensure my measurements are right to give Strange (or likely Dr. Diff). I've reached out via email to Wilwood, Strange and Cass and never gotten a good answer to this question; each seems to not know or maybe not take me serious since it's email or IDK what. Want to use a Wilwood rear kit that'll match what I have for the front. When you start looking at Wilwood's kits - first thing they as is "axle offset": Wilwood Axle OffsetAnd give you the option of 2.36", 2.50" and 2.76" - I assume this is tied to the bearing type used? Or? What is common or recommendations on which to use? Much appreciated in advance!
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Re: Dana 60 / Wilwood?
[Re: Stanton]
#3263187
10/10/24 08:32 AM
10/10/24 08:32 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,369 Morrow, OH
markz528
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,369
Morrow, OH
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Granted its been quite a while, but when I switched from 8 3/4 to a Dana and called Wilwood to discuss if I need to make any changes because of offset, flat out what they told me and sold me was wrong and it went downhill from there...........
I personally will NEVER again buy Wilwood.
67 Coronet 500 9.610 @ 139.20 mph 67 Coronet 500 (street car) 14.82 @ 94 mph 69 GTX (clone) - build in progress......
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Re: Dana 60 / Wilwood?
[Re: markz528]
#3263303
10/10/24 08:12 PM
10/10/24 08:12 PM
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,717 Fulton County, PA
CMcAllister
Mr. Helpful
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Mr. Helpful
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,717
Fulton County, PA
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Depends on the housing ends and the axle manufacturer. Typically, axle stick out is determined by what style housing end you use. Big Ford, Mopar, Olds, etc. They are not all the same. If you are using Strange stuff with Mopar ends, they should be able to tell you. Strange standard Mopar brake kits are made for 2.663" stickout. Strange Mopar ends made for 3.150" bearing is 2.500" Most Ford stuff is 2.500" . GM and race stuff is 2.832". Strange axles should be made to those dimensions, but the person specing the rear can specify that.
Don't need to know this to get a rear built. Mock the wheel/tire you are using under the car where it needs to be. Take the time to get it right. Measure inside of wheel to inside of wheel at the axle face. Subtract the thickness of the brake hats used.
Give that flange to flange dimension to the people building the rear. If they build it with standard stickout for the ends used, you should be able to buy a brake kit based on the ends used, and have it fit. .
Last edited by CMcAllister; 10/10/24 08:14 PM.
If the results don't match the theory, change the theory.
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Re: Dana 60 / Wilwood?
[Re: CMcAllister]
#3263367
10/11/24 07:36 AM
10/11/24 07:36 AM
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,139 Byesville, Ohio
Tomsecks
OP
super stock
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OP
super stock
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,139
Byesville, Ohio
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Thank you guys for your answers and time in doing so. CMcAllister you somewhat answered my question but also highlighted my question. How can I "Subtract the thickness of the brake hats used" if I don't know what brakes I can use? Strange didn't answer me on what the offset is when I asked, and yes I was specific about saying which Mopar end I wanted. Without that information I can't filter the Willwood kits (first thing it asks is the offset), without filtering the brake kits I can't get down to a specific rotor/hat, so I don't have that measurement which I need to get "down" to the axle flange-to-flange width? Sort of a chicken and egg situation; that's why I was hoping somebody would say something like you did about the 2.50" offset. So I basically have to get that answer out of Strange. I'm guessing maybe they have SO many people inquiring that are "bench racing" that they aren't as detailed until you are truly ready to order . These rears are just such a chunk of $$$ I, like anybody else, want it to be dead on. As suggested, I'll just have to mock it up - I'll probably make up a dummy rear out of some like 3"-4" PVC pipe, mount my wheel/tires and cycle it through the suspension travel and then take those measurements and maybe then they'll discuss housing ends and brake kits.
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Re: Dana 60 / Wilwood?
[Re: Tomsecks]
#3263376
10/11/24 08:24 AM
10/11/24 08:24 AM
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,717 Fulton County, PA
CMcAllister
Mr. Helpful
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Mr. Helpful
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,717
Fulton County, PA
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Most brake kits come with a flat one piece caliper bracket. The difference from one axle length to the other is the brake hat/rotor.
If you look at the Strange catalog, their rotors are listed with axle stick out specified. 2.500 is a common number but you need to know to get the right hat/rotor.
If the results don't match the theory, change the theory.
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Re: Dana 60 / Wilwood?
[Re: Tomsecks]
#3263386
10/11/24 08:53 AM
10/11/24 08:53 AM
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,717 Fulton County, PA
CMcAllister
Mr. Helpful
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Mr. Helpful
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,717
Fulton County, PA
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Thank you guys for your answers and time in doing so. CMcAllister you somewhat answered my question but also highlighted my question. How can I "Subtract the thickness of the brake hats used" if I don't know what brakes I can use? Strange didn't answer me on what the offset is when I asked, and yes I was specific about saying which Mopar end I wanted. Without that information I can't filter the Willwood kits (first thing it asks is the offset), without filtering the brake kits I can't get down to a specific rotor/hat, so I don't have that measurement which I need to get "down" to the axle flange-to-flange width? Sort of a chicken and egg situation; that's why I was hoping somebody would say something like you did about the 2.50" offset. So I basically have to get that answer out of Strange. I'm guessing maybe they have SO many people inquiring that are "bench racing" that they aren't as detailed until you are truly ready to order . These rears are just such a chunk of $$$ I, like anybody else, want it to be dead on. As suggested, I'll just have to mock it up - I'll probably make up a dummy rear out of some like 3"-4" PVC pipe, mount my wheel/tires and cycle it through the suspension travel and then take those measurements and maybe then they'll discuss housing ends and brake kits. If you’re doing a complete new unit, the person specing the build will determine this stuff. I would use a 3.150 axle bearing housing end. Strange does brake kits for Big Ford 3.150 ends in 2.332 and 2.500 stick out. And the Strange Big Mopar end for 3.150 with 2.500 only. They will build the rear with whatever you want. 2.500 stick out is common. That equals easy to get a brake kit. Strange one piece rotors are .125 thick I think. Aluminum hats are usually .250 thick. 1/8” is not much unless you are really tight with the tires.
If the results don't match the theory, change the theory.
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Re: Dana 60 / Wilwood?
[Re: Tomsecks]
#3263471
10/11/24 02:48 PM
10/11/24 02:48 PM
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,717 Fulton County, PA
CMcAllister
Mr. Helpful
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Mr. Helpful
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,717
Fulton County, PA
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Why would you use the 3.15" bearing housing end? Better bearing? More room for something? Or?
Really appreciate these tidbits from folks experiences or just general knowledge. More common. Heavier bearing. Allow for bigger axle. More kits with brackets to fit likely. If I can get bigger, better, stronger, easier for the same money, I always do. Like 5/8 studs.
If the results don't match the theory, change the theory.
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Re: Dana 60 / Wilwood?
[Re: CMcAllister]
#3263625
10/12/24 10:53 AM
10/12/24 10:53 AM
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 20,740 north of coder
moparx
"Butt Crack Bob"
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"Butt Crack Bob"
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 20,740
north of coder
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when converting to 5/8" axle studs, are there "sleeves" [for lack of a better word] that fit into the wheel holes that are drilled for the common [?] 11/16" shank style nuts ? also, if drilling wheel holes larger to fit the 5/8" studs, how much clearance should one allow in the hole size for the studs ? finally, i have seen "conversion" studs that are 5/8" on the wheel side of the axle, while being a 1/2-20 thread size for screwing into the axle that has the common 1/2-20 threads. i would think this would be asking for trouble, as the stud is still attached to the axle with the 1/2" thread size. all comments welcome.
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Re: Dana 60 / Wilwood?
[Re: AndyF]
#3263639
10/12/24 11:59 AM
10/12/24 11:59 AM
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 20,740 north of coder
moparx
"Butt Crack Bob"
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"Butt Crack Bob"
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 20,740
north of coder
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Here is the rearend I put under my Duster. Got the whole assembly from Cass at Doctor Diff. It is a Strange 9 inch with Torino ends, Baer brakes, aluminum center section and 1350 u joint. one question, why are the hard line to flex line brackets attached to the rear tubes with hose clamps instead of being tacked to the housing ? not condemning the mounting per se, just wondering for the reason why.
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Re: Dana 60 / Wilwood?
[Re: topside]
#3263655
10/12/24 12:57 PM
10/12/24 12:57 PM
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,717 Fulton County, PA
CMcAllister
Mr. Helpful
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Mr. Helpful
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,717
Fulton County, PA
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Early Big Ford is more common and typically used. Some guys don't want Ford stuff on their Mopar though. I would use Early Big Ford (not Torino) on my personal stuff. It offers the most options for brake kits and brackets in the Strange catalog. one question, why are the hard line to flex line brackets attached to the rear tubes with hose clamps instead of being tacked to the housing ? Only reason I can think of is they had it painted/coated before they realized those should be there. People plumb the rear calipers different ways. Some use a single line to the center with hard lines to mounted bulkheads at the housing ends. Some drop flex lines down from the framerails on either side directly to the calipers, using a crossover line on the chassis. Especially on fabricated housings that are very busy or alumium.
If the results don't match the theory, change the theory.
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Re: Dana 60 / Wilwood?
[Re: moparx]
#3263658
10/12/24 01:17 PM
10/12/24 01:17 PM
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,717 Fulton County, PA
CMcAllister
Mr. Helpful
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Mr. Helpful
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,717
Fulton County, PA
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when converting to 5/8" axle studs, are there "sleeves" [for lack of a better word] that fit into the wheel holes that are drilled for the common [?] 11/16" shank style nuts ? also, if drilling wheel holes larger to fit the 5/8" studs, how much clearance should one allow in the hole size for the studs ? finally, i have seen "conversion" studs that are 5/8" on the wheel side of the axle, while being a 1/2-20 thread size for screwing into the axle that has the common 1/2-20 threads. i would think this would be asking for trouble, as the stud is still attached to the axle with the 1/2" thread size. all comments welcome. 5/8 studs (bolts actually) are available with sleeves that function to lock the bolt and bring the diameter to 11/16. These are a PIA, IMO. A proper kit is a machined stud sized for the wheel thickness with lock nuts, lug nuts and spacers as the shank will extend through the wheel. Wheels are 11/16" You may have to hone or clean up the holes some if the wheels have never been used with the big studs. NO drill bits and aggressive die grinding. It needs to be a bit of a snug fit initially. They will loosen up some with use.
If the results don't match the theory, change the theory.
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Re: Dana 60 / Wilwood?
[Re: CMcAllister]
#3263704
10/12/24 05:10 PM
10/12/24 05:10 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,369 Morrow, OH
markz528
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,369
Morrow, OH
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when converting to 5/8" axle studs, are there "sleeves" [for lack of a better word] that fit into the wheel holes that are drilled for the common [?] 11/16" shank style nuts ? also, if drilling wheel holes larger to fit the 5/8" studs, how much clearance should one allow in the hole size for the studs ? finally, i have seen "conversion" studs that are 5/8" on the wheel side of the axle, while being a 1/2-20 thread size for screwing into the axle that has the common 1/2-20 threads. i would think this would be asking for trouble, as the stud is still attached to the axle with the 1/2" thread size. all comments welcome. 5/8 studs (bolts actually) are available with sleeves that function to lock the bolt and bring the diameter to 11/16. These are a PIA, IMO. A proper kit is a machined stud sized for the wheel thickness with lock nuts, lug nuts and spacers as the shank will extend through the wheel. Wheels are 11/16" You may have to hone or clean up the holes some if the wheels have never been used with the big studs. NO drill bits and aggressive die grinding. It needs to be a bit of a snug fit initially. They will loosen up some with use. Yup. I have the 11/16" studs from Mark Williams.
67 Coronet 500 9.610 @ 139.20 mph 67 Coronet 500 (street car) 14.82 @ 94 mph 69 GTX (clone) - build in progress......
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