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Dana 60 / Wilwood? #3263069
10/09/24 04:12 PM
10/09/24 04:12 PM
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Byesville, Ohio
Tomsecks Offline OP
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Haven't posted here in AGES - so please take it easy on me.

Looking to get a Strange S60 built for my Swinger; it won't be stock measurements. Am in the process of starting to mock something up with the wheels I have to ensure my measurements are right to give Strange (or likely Dr. Diff). I've reached out via email to Wilwood, Strange and Cass and never gotten a good answer to this question; each seems to not know or maybe not take me serious since it's email or IDK what.

Want to use a Wilwood rear kit that'll match what I have for the front. When you start looking at Wilwood's kits - first thing they as is "axle offset":

Wilwood Axle Offset

And give you the option of 2.36", 2.50" and 2.76" - I assume this is tied to the bearing type used? Or? What is common or recommendations on which to use?

Much appreciated in advance!

Re: Dana 60 / Wilwood? [Re: Tomsecks] #3263097
10/09/24 06:27 PM
10/09/24 06:27 PM
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topside Offline
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I recently used a Jeg's rear disc kit to replace the goofy Versailles setup on a Ford 9" (also Versailles), that had been swapped into a Valiant.
They defined that offset as housing flange to axle flange, to have the caliper centered on the rotor.
Wilwood's illustration at top left seems a bit confusing, as it looks like bearing inner face to axle flange, but only in that illustration.
Elsewhere on their page, they seem to be using the same definition as Jeg's did.
As it turned out, I could have adjusted that caliper position with washers & fastener lengths, but I didn't have to.

Re: Dana 60 / Wilwood? [Re: topside] #3263148
10/09/24 11:07 PM
10/09/24 11:07 PM
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Dandridge TN
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Just installed a Speedway disc brake kit on a ford 9 inch. The kit came with spacers to center the caliper on the rotor to compensate for different offsets.

Re: Dana 60 / Wilwood? [Re: Dabee] #3263176
10/10/24 07:15 AM
10/10/24 07:15 AM
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Ontario, Canada
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Stanton Offline
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Personally ... I would tell whoever builds the rear end what the "flange to flange" measurement you want is as well as which Wilwood brake option you will use - let them figure it out. Don't forget the pinion is offset to one side. Unless its an oddball combo they probably know the measurements off the top of their head !!

Re: Dana 60 / Wilwood? [Re: Stanton] #3263187
10/10/24 08:32 AM
10/10/24 08:32 AM
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Morrow, OH
markz528 Online content
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Granted its been quite a while, but when I switched from 8 3/4 to a Dana and called Wilwood to discuss if I need to make any changes because of offset, flat out what they told me and sold me was wrong and it went downhill from there...........

I personally will NEVER again buy Wilwood.


67 Coronet 500 9.610 @ 139.20 mph
67 Coronet 500 (street car) 14.82 @ 94 mph
69 GTX (clone) - build in progress......
Re: Dana 60 / Wilwood? [Re: markz528] #3263303
10/10/24 08:12 PM
10/10/24 08:12 PM
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Fulton County, PA
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CMcAllister Offline
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Depends on the housing ends and the axle manufacturer. Typically, axle stick out is determined by what style housing end you use. Big Ford, Mopar, Olds, etc. They are not all the same. If you are using Strange stuff with Mopar ends, they should be able to tell you. Strange standard Mopar brake kits are made for 2.663" stickout. Strange Mopar ends made for 3.150" bearing is 2.500" Most Ford stuff is 2.500" . GM and race stuff is 2.832". Strange axles should be made to those dimensions, but the person specing the rear can specify that.

Don't need to know this to get a rear built. Mock the wheel/tire you are using under the car where it needs to be. Take the time to get it right. Measure inside of wheel to inside of wheel at the axle face. Subtract the thickness of the brake hats used.

Give that flange to flange dimension to the people building the rear. If they build it with standard stickout for the ends used, you should be able to buy a brake kit based on the ends used, and have it fit. .

Last edited by CMcAllister; 10/10/24 08:14 PM.

If the results don't match the theory, change the theory.
Re: Dana 60 / Wilwood? [Re: CMcAllister] #3263367
10/11/24 07:36 AM
10/11/24 07:36 AM
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Byesville, Ohio
Tomsecks Offline OP
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Thank you guys for your answers and time in doing so.

CMcAllister you somewhat answered my question but also highlighted my question. How can I "Subtract the thickness of the brake hats used" if I don't know what brakes I can use? Strange didn't answer me on what the offset is when I asked, and yes I was specific about saying which Mopar end I wanted. Without that information I can't filter the Willwood kits (first thing it asks is the offset), without filtering the brake kits I can't get down to a specific rotor/hat, so I don't have that measurement which I need to get "down" to the axle flange-to-flange width? Sort of a chicken and egg situation; that's why I was hoping somebody would say something like you did about the 2.50" offset. So I basically have to get that answer out of Strange.

I'm guessing maybe they have SO many people inquiring that are "bench racing" that they aren't as detailed until you are truly ready to order shruggy. These rears are just such a chunk of $$$ I, like anybody else, want it to be dead on.

As suggested, I'll just have to mock it up - I'll probably make up a dummy rear out of some like 3"-4" PVC pipe, mount my wheel/tires and cycle it through the suspension travel and then take those measurements and maybe then they'll discuss housing ends and brake kits.

Re: Dana 60 / Wilwood? [Re: Tomsecks] #3263376
10/11/24 08:24 AM
10/11/24 08:24 AM
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Fulton County, PA
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CMcAllister Offline
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Most brake kits come with a flat one piece caliper bracket. The difference from one axle length to the other is the brake hat/rotor.

If you look at the Strange catalog, their rotors are listed with axle stick out specified. 2.500 is a common number but you need to know to get the right hat/rotor.


If the results don't match the theory, change the theory.
Re: Dana 60 / Wilwood? [Re: Tomsecks] #3263386
10/11/24 08:53 AM
10/11/24 08:53 AM
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CMcAllister Offline
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Originally Posted by Tomsecks
Thank you guys for your answers and time in doing so.

CMcAllister you somewhat answered my question but also highlighted my question. How can I "Subtract the thickness of the brake hats used" if I don't know what brakes I can use? Strange didn't answer me on what the offset is when I asked, and yes I was specific about saying which Mopar end I wanted. Without that information I can't filter the Willwood kits (first thing it asks is the offset), without filtering the brake kits I can't get down to a specific rotor/hat, so I don't have that measurement which I need to get "down" to the axle flange-to-flange width? Sort of a chicken and egg situation; that's why I was hoping somebody would say something like you did about the 2.50" offset. So I basically have to get that answer out of Strange.

I'm guessing maybe they have SO many people inquiring that are "bench racing" that they aren't as detailed until you are truly ready to order shruggy. These rears are just such a chunk of $$$ I, like anybody else, want it to be dead on.

As suggested, I'll just have to mock it up - I'll probably make up a dummy rear out of some like 3"-4" PVC pipe, mount my wheel/tires and cycle it through the suspension travel and then take those measurements and maybe then they'll discuss housing ends and brake kits.



If you’re doing a complete new unit, the person specing the build will determine this stuff. I would use a 3.150 axle bearing housing end. Strange does brake kits for Big Ford 3.150 ends in 2.332 and 2.500 stick out. And the Strange Big Mopar end for 3.150 with 2.500 only.

They will build the rear with whatever you want. 2.500 stick out is common. That equals easy to get a brake kit.

Strange one piece rotors are .125 thick I think. Aluminum hats are usually .250 thick. 1/8” is not much unless you are really tight with the tires.


If the results don't match the theory, change the theory.
Re: Dana 60 / Wilwood? [Re: CMcAllister] #3263394
10/11/24 09:20 AM
10/11/24 09:20 AM
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fredericksburg,va
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cudaman1969 Offline
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Another thing to know, what size rotor are you using, on my setup the standard hat-rotor put the caliper to close to rim and made a groove in it so I’m buying a deeper hat to move the caliper away from rim. The bracket is spaced inward more from housing end. I’m away from shop right now but will get the measurements when I get back. The hat is the main factor to spacing and they have many sizes to choose from. Hats are 1/4” thick on axel flange to set your dimensions for axel length. Put tires and rims in place, measure inside both rims, subtract 1/2”, there’s the size for axels. Let them figure out the rest.

Re: Dana 60 / Wilwood? [Re: CMcAllister] #3263459
10/11/24 01:32 PM
10/11/24 01:32 PM
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Byesville, Ohio
Tomsecks Offline OP
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Why would you use the 3.15" bearing housing end? Better bearing? More room for something? Or?

Really appreciate these tidbits from folks experiences or just general knowledge.

Re: Dana 60 / Wilwood? [Re: Tomsecks] #3263471
10/11/24 02:48 PM
10/11/24 02:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Tomsecks
Why would you use the 3.15" bearing housing end? Better bearing? More room for something? Or?

Really appreciate these tidbits from folks experiences or just general knowledge.


More common. Heavier bearing. Allow for bigger axle. More kits with brackets to fit likely.

If I can get bigger, better, stronger, easier for the same money, I always do. Like 5/8 studs.


If the results don't match the theory, change the theory.
Re: Dana 60 / Wilwood? [Re: CMcAllister] #3263625
10/12/24 10:53 AM
10/12/24 10:53 AM
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north of coder
moparx Offline
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when converting to 5/8" axle studs, are there "sleeves" [for lack of a better word] that fit into the wheel holes that are drilled for the common [?] 11/16" shank style nuts ?
also, if drilling wheel holes larger to fit the 5/8" studs, how much clearance should one allow in the hole size for the studs ?
finally, i have seen "conversion" studs that are 5/8" on the wheel side of the axle, while being a 1/2-20 thread size for screwing into the axle that has the common 1/2-20 threads. i would think this would be asking for trouble, as the stud is still attached to the axle with the 1/2" thread size.
all comments welcome.
beer

Re: Dana 60 / Wilwood? [Re: Tomsecks] #3263627
10/12/24 11:09 AM
10/12/24 11:09 AM
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Best bet is to call Cass at Doctor Diff. He typically doesn't answer emails since he gets too many to answer. Do some research before you call him so he doesn't have to spend a ton of time explaining everything. He is a one man shop.

These days most people use the big Ford (Torino) axle ends and bearings. It is a sealed bearing and it gets you away from the Mopar bearing where you need an adjuster on one side. There are a lot of disc brake kits designed to fit the Torino bearing. Wilwood has a wide selection of kits, but they are the low end brake vendor so the quality of their parts is on the low end. If that is what you want then fine, but if you are building a daily driver you might want to step up to a higher quality product such as Baer. All depends what you are doing.

I put a Strange 60 under my Coronet. Bought the whole thing complete from Cass. 1350 yoke, Torino ends, Cass's rear disk setup with Baer rotors and Mustang Cobra calipers.

DSC_2949 (Large).JPG
Re: Dana 60 / Wilwood? [Re: AndyF] #3263630
10/12/24 11:11 AM
10/12/24 11:11 AM
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Here is the rearend I put under my Duster. Got the whole assembly from Cass at Doctor Diff. It is a Strange 9 inch with Torino ends, Baer brakes, aluminum center section and 1350 u joint.

DSC_4556 (Large).JPG
Re: Dana 60 / Wilwood? [Re: AndyF] #3263639
10/12/24 11:59 AM
10/12/24 11:59 AM
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north of coder
moparx Offline
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Originally Posted by AndyF
Here is the rearend I put under my Duster. Got the whole assembly from Cass at Doctor Diff. It is a Strange 9 inch with Torino ends, Baer brakes, aluminum center section and 1350 u joint.




one question, why are the hard line to flex line brackets attached to the rear tubes with hose clamps instead of being tacked to the housing ?
not condemning the mounting per se, just wondering for the reason why.
beer

Re: Dana 60 / Wilwood? [Re: moparx] #3263646
10/12/24 12:17 PM
10/12/24 12:17 PM
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"Big Ford" & "Torino" are same big bearings, but IIRC the housing flange bolt patterns differ.
"Big Ford" & "Old Ford" are different terms for the same thing.
Hose clamps are fine for those hard lines - been on my old car (avatar) for decades; they haven't moved at all.
That can make axle R&I quicker if you tie the brake system up & out of the way.

Re: Dana 60 / Wilwood? [Re: topside] #3263655
10/12/24 12:57 PM
10/12/24 12:57 PM
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Early Big Ford is more common and typically used. Some guys don't want Ford stuff on their Mopar though. I would use Early Big Ford (not Torino) on my personal stuff. It offers the most options for brake kits and brackets in the Strange catalog.

[Linked Image]


Quote
one question, why are the hard line to flex line brackets attached to the rear tubes with hose clamps instead of being tacked to the housing ?


Only reason I can think of is they had it painted/coated before they realized those should be there.

People plumb the rear calipers different ways. Some use a single line to the center with hard lines to mounted bulkheads at the housing ends. Some drop flex lines down from the framerails on either side directly to the calipers, using a crossover line on the chassis. Especially on fabricated housings that are very busy or alumium.


If the results don't match the theory, change the theory.
Re: Dana 60 / Wilwood? [Re: moparx] #3263658
10/12/24 01:17 PM
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Originally Posted by moparx
when converting to 5/8" axle studs, are there "sleeves" [for lack of a better word] that fit into the wheel holes that are drilled for the common [?] 11/16" shank style nuts ?
also, if drilling wheel holes larger to fit the 5/8" studs, how much clearance should one allow in the hole size for the studs ?
finally, i have seen "conversion" studs that are 5/8" on the wheel side of the axle, while being a 1/2-20 thread size for screwing into the axle that has the common 1/2-20 threads. i would think this would be asking for trouble, as the stud is still attached to the axle with the 1/2" thread size.
all comments welcome.
beer


5/8 studs (bolts actually) are available with sleeves that function to lock the bolt and bring the diameter to 11/16. These are a PIA, IMO.

[Linked Image]


A proper kit is a machined stud sized for the wheel thickness with lock nuts, lug nuts and spacers as the shank will extend through the wheel.


[Linked Image]


Wheels are 11/16" You may have to hone or clean up the holes some if the wheels have never been used with the big studs. NO drill bits and aggressive die grinding. It needs to be a bit of a snug fit initially. They will loosen up some with use.


If the results don't match the theory, change the theory.
Re: Dana 60 / Wilwood? [Re: CMcAllister] #3263704
10/12/24 05:10 PM
10/12/24 05:10 PM
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Posts: 4,369
Morrow, OH
markz528 Online content
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Originally Posted by CMcAllister
Originally Posted by moparx
when converting to 5/8" axle studs, are there "sleeves" [for lack of a better word] that fit into the wheel holes that are drilled for the common [?] 11/16" shank style nuts ?
also, if drilling wheel holes larger to fit the 5/8" studs, how much clearance should one allow in the hole size for the studs ?
finally, i have seen "conversion" studs that are 5/8" on the wheel side of the axle, while being a 1/2-20 thread size for screwing into the axle that has the common 1/2-20 threads. i would think this would be asking for trouble, as the stud is still attached to the axle with the 1/2" thread size.
all comments welcome.
beer


5/8 studs (bolts actually) are available with sleeves that function to lock the bolt and bring the diameter to 11/16. These are a PIA, IMO.

[Linked Image]


A proper kit is a machined stud sized for the wheel thickness with lock nuts, lug nuts and spacers as the shank will extend through the wheel.


[Linked Image]


Wheels are 11/16" You may have to hone or clean up the holes some if the wheels have never been used with the big studs. NO drill bits and aggressive die grinding. It needs to be a bit of a snug fit initially. They will loosen up some with use.


Yup. I have the 11/16" studs from Mark Williams.


67 Coronet 500 9.610 @ 139.20 mph
67 Coronet 500 (street car) 14.82 @ 94 mph
69 GTX (clone) - build in progress......






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