Re: Overcharging issue driving me crazy
[Re: TJP]
#3231860
05/09/24 08:24 AM
05/09/24 08:24 AM
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 2,013 Apollo, PA.
B1MAXX
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 2,013
Apollo, PA.
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the oldest trick in the book is to check battery voltage without it running, then start it and check again, If there is less when its running something is wrong. For it to out put 15 v at speed is fine to me, but 12v at idle is what concerns me. Maybe check the diodes.
Last edited by B1MAXX; 05/09/24 08:25 AM.
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Re: Overcharging issue driving me crazy
[Re: B1MAXX]
#3232070
05/10/24 02:49 PM
05/10/24 02:49 PM
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 3,683 The Historic Hudson Valley
MONC
OP
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OP
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Posts: 3,683
The Historic Hudson Valley
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So have a lot of other stuff going on, but did get a chance to get a grounding strap from motor to body installed in factory location. Double checked with meter and got good ground. Also double checked VR ground and it is good as well. I also removed leads from ammeter, cleaned them up and then installed an aftermarket ammeter using those leads ( was thinking maybe it was the gauge itself).
Good news is that seemed to solve the problem, got 14.4V at battery idling, and all other voltages were consistent, and gauge didn't peg to charge when revved.
But I couldn't leave well enough alone. I'd prefer to use the car's ammeter , so I re connected cleaned leads to gauge, restarted car and voltage dropped to similar reading of 12.5V at battery idling. So I thought 'ok it was the gauge' . So I reconnected aftermarket gauge with those leads, and my voltage stayed the same at 12.5V and change at idle.
Rechecked connections, even took off bulkhead connectors (again), cleaned and reassembled again, no change. So back to square one.
Mopar Or No Car
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Re: Overcharging issue driving me crazy
[Re: MONC]
#3232107
05/10/24 08:23 PM
05/10/24 08:23 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,668 Freeport IL USA
poorboy
I Live Here
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I Live Here
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Posts: 10,668
Freeport IL USA
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So have a lot of other stuff going on, but did get a chance to get a grounding strap from motor to body installed in factory location. Double checked with meter and got good ground. Also double checked VR ground and it is good as well. I also removed leads from ammeter, cleaned them up and then installed an aftermarket ammeter using those leads ( was thinking maybe it was the gauge itself).
Good news is that seemed to solve the problem, got 14.4V at battery idling, and all other voltages were consistent, and gauge didn't peg to charge when revved.
But I couldn't leave well enough alone. I'd prefer to use the car's ammeter , so I re connected cleaned leads to gauge, restarted car and voltage dropped to similar reading of 12.5V at battery idling. So I thought 'ok it was the gauge' . So I reconnected aftermarket gauge with those leads, and my voltage stayed the same at 12.5V and change at idle.
Rechecked connections, even took off bulkhead connectors (again), cleaned and reassembled again, no change. So back to square one.
So, when you moved the wiring under the dash to reconnect the factory Amp gauge, and things changed, it would lead me to believe you either shifted a poor or loose connection that may have been ok before you moved it. It may be time to start giggling each wire under the dash. I would start at the dash and move towards the bulk head connector, one wire at a time, starting with the wires in the amp gauge circuit, or wires from the ignition switch that may have been moved. Its going to be a pita to find which wire connection is at fault. It won't be fun, but I'm betting that is where your problem is. I had a 69 Chrysler that had a loose connector at the bulk head. I cleaned them all, and they all felt good pushing them back together, but that terminal that was causing the intermittent problem grew worse rather quickly. That one connection at the bulk head was clean, but just a little loose. Hit a bump on the road wrong, and the connection went from good to barely good enough, and finally to not at all. But as soon as the wire was wiggled, all was good again. t took me more then a month to find that one!
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Re: Overcharging issue driving me crazy
[Re: poorboy]
#3232119
05/10/24 09:51 PM
05/10/24 09:51 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,565 Omaha Ne
TJP
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,565
Omaha Ne
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So have a lot of other stuff going on, but did get a chance to get a grounding strap from motor to body installed in factory location. Double checked with meter and got good ground. Also double checked VR ground and it is good as well. I also removed leads from ammeter, cleaned them up and then installed an aftermarket ammeter using those leads ( was thinking maybe it was the gauge itself).
Good news is that seemed to solve the problem, got 14.4V at battery idling, and all other voltages were consistent, and gauge didn't peg to charge when revved.
But I couldn't leave well enough alone. I'd prefer to use the car's ammeter , so I re connected cleaned leads to gauge, restarted car and voltage dropped to similar reading of 12.5V at battery idling. So I thought 'ok it was the gauge' . So I reconnected aftermarket gauge with those leads, and my voltage stayed the same at 12.5V and change at idle.
Rechecked connections, even took off bulkhead connectors (again), cleaned and reassembled again, no change. So back to square one.
So, when you moved the wiring under the dash to reconnect the factory Amp gauge, and things changed, it would lead me to believe you either shifted a poor or loose connection that may have been ok before you moved it. It may be time to start giggling each wire under the dash. I would start at the dash and move towards the bulk head connector, one wire at a time, starting with the wires in the amp gauge circuit, or wires from the ignition switch that may have been moved. Its going to be a pita to find which wire connection is at fault. It won't be fun, but I'm betting that is where your problem is. I had a 69 Chrysler that had a loose connector at the bulk head. I cleaned them all, and they all felt good pushing them back together, but that terminal that was causing the intermittent problem grew worse rather quickly. That one connection at the bulk head was clean, but just a little loose. Hit a bump on the road wrong, and the connection went from good to barely good enough, and finally to not at all. But as soon as the wire was wiggled, all was good again. t took me more then a month to find that one! I'll agree,
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Re: Overcharging issue driving me crazy
[Re: poorboy]
#3232142
05/11/24 09:05 AM
05/11/24 09:05 AM
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 3,683 The Historic Hudson Valley
MONC
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 3,683
The Historic Hudson Valley
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So have a lot of other stuff going on, but did get a chance to get a grounding strap from motor to body installed in factory location. Double checked with meter and got good ground. Also double checked VR ground and it is good as well. I also removed leads from ammeter, cleaned them up and then installed an aftermarket ammeter using those leads ( was thinking maybe it was the gauge itself).
Good news is that seemed to solve the problem, got 14.4V at battery idling, and all other voltages were consistent, and gauge didn't peg to charge when revved.
But I couldn't leave well enough alone. I'd prefer to use the car's ammeter , so I re connected cleaned leads to gauge, restarted car and voltage dropped to similar reading of 12.5V at battery idling. So I thought 'ok it was the gauge' . So I reconnected aftermarket gauge with those leads, and my voltage stayed the same at 12.5V and change at idle.
Rechecked connections, even took off bulkhead connectors (again), cleaned and reassembled again, no change. So back to square one.
So, when you moved the wiring under the dash to reconnect the factory Amp gauge, and things changed, it would lead me to believe you either shifted a poor or loose connection that may have been ok before you moved it. It may be time to start giggling each wire under the dash. I would start at the dash and move towards the bulk head connector, one wire at a time, starting with the wires in the amp gauge circuit, or wires from the ignition switch that may have been moved. Its going to be a pita to find which wire connection is at fault. It won't be fun, but I'm betting that is where your problem is. I had a 69 Chrysler that had a loose connector at the bulk head. I cleaned them all, and they all felt good pushing them back together, but that terminal that was causing the intermittent problem grew worse rather quickly. That one connection at the bulk head was clean, but just a little loose. Hit a bump on the road wrong, and the connection went from good to barely good enough, and finally to not at all. But as soon as the wire was wiggled, all was good again. t took me more then a month to find that one! Yeah agree, and did some cursory 'jiggling' already. And as stated had the bulkhead apart a few times cleaning and tightening connections. Nothing so far. Will try again today.
Mopar Or No Car
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Re: Overcharging issue driving me crazy
[Re: EW1BH27]
#3232222
05/11/24 06:36 PM
05/11/24 06:36 PM
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 3,683 The Historic Hudson Valley
MONC
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OP
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The Historic Hudson Valley
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Thanks for the link. Interesting. Will have to look into that.
In the meantime, I spent the day removing more accessories that are not used when I got the car, repairing connections and disconnecting radio and components. After I was all done, I managed to make the situation worse. Now I am at about 12.3V at the battery when running.
Interestingly though when I rev the engine , the aftermarket ammeter gauge goes up to 30 then backs down to a mark on the gauge. Not sure that is progress based on battery reading though.
Even after looking at wiring diagram, it is unclear to me how the voltage flows when ignition is in 'run' position? Is it from battery to bulkhead, through gauge, then to alternator , VR, ballast resistor?
Mopar Or No Car
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Re: Overcharging issue driving me crazy
[Re: Andrewh]
#3232273
05/12/24 09:20 AM
05/12/24 09:20 AM
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 3,683 The Historic Hudson Valley
MONC
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battery to bulkhead bulkhead to amp meter amp meter to ignition switch power out through run or start. back through the bulkhead that line has a splice in it. power goes to the VR, Ballast and Alt all from the same source. so for a 2 field alt one field reads battery voltage, the other is coming from the VR. Thank you! Would this then mean the issue has to be the wiring/connections between battery and the ammeter ( ie. bulkhead )?
Last edited by MONC; 05/12/24 09:50 AM.
Mopar Or No Car
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Re: Overcharging issue driving me crazy
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#3232274
05/12/24 09:21 AM
05/12/24 09:21 AM
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 3,683 The Historic Hudson Valley
MONC
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Sounds like a bad amp meter circuit or gauge to me, try using a volt meter with that circuit bypass with a good jumpers or wire clips jump around it on the bulkhead connector I am currently using an aftermarket ammeter gauge with the wires from the original harness. Not sure how to complete the circuit bypass. Do you have a step by step?
Mopar Or No Car
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Re: Overcharging issue driving me crazy
[Re: MONC]
#3232420
05/12/24 10:12 PM
05/12/24 10:12 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,565 Omaha Ne
TJP
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,565
Omaha Ne
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So have a lot of other stuff going on, but did get a chance to get a grounding strap from motor to body installed in factory location. Double checked with meter and got good ground. Also double checked VR ground and it is good as well. I also removed leads from ammeter, cleaned them up and then installed an aftermarket ammeter using those leads ( was thinking maybe it was the gauge itself).
Good news is that seemed to solve the problem, got 14.4V at battery idling, and all other voltages were consistent, and gauge didn't peg to charge when revved.
But I couldn't leave well enough alone. I'd prefer to use the car's ammeter , so I re connected cleaned leads to gauge, restarted car and voltage dropped to similar reading of 12.5V at battery idling. So I thought 'ok it was the gauge' . So I reconnected aftermarket gauge with those leads, and my voltage stayed the same at 12.5V and change at idle.
Rechecked connections, even took off bulkhead connectors (again), cleaned and reassembled again, no change. So back to square one. Have you checked the female terminal's to assure they have not opened up and are causing a poor connection for current? They sometimes need to be squeezed a bit to make adequate contact with the male terminals . This is especially true after multiple matings ( keep it clean guys )
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Re: Overcharging issue driving me crazy
[Re: TJP]
#3232488
05/13/24 10:14 AM
05/13/24 10:14 AM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041 Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
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Circle Track
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041
Lincoln Nebraska
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I had this same problem in my 73 dart, in my case the A/C system had a dead short & was slow draining the battery then when I would start up & take off it would full field/peg it any any speed above idle. still havent dug into the A/C system to resolve it (access in the dash is cranped) but unplugging the 2 wire to the evaporator? took care of it for the time being. RR EDIT pulling a batt cable & voltmeter on amps inline between post & cable confirmed a 24/7 draw
Last edited by RapidRobert; 05/13/24 10:17 AM.
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: Overcharging issue driving me crazy
[Re: TJP]
#3232505
05/13/24 10:55 AM
05/13/24 10:55 AM
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 3,683 The Historic Hudson Valley
MONC
OP
master
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OP
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 3,683
The Historic Hudson Valley
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So have a lot of other stuff going on, but did get a chance to get a grounding strap from motor to body installed in factory location. Double checked with meter and got good ground. Also double checked VR ground and it is good as well. I also removed leads from ammeter, cleaned them up and then installed an aftermarket ammeter using those leads ( was thinking maybe it was the gauge itself).
Good news is that seemed to solve the problem, got 14.4V at battery idling, and all other voltages were consistent, and gauge didn't peg to charge when revved.
But I couldn't leave well enough alone. I'd prefer to use the car's ammeter , so I re connected cleaned leads to gauge, restarted car and voltage dropped to similar reading of 12.5V at battery idling. So I thought 'ok it was the gauge' . So I reconnected aftermarket gauge with those leads, and my voltage stayed the same at 12.5V and change at idle.
Rechecked connections, even took off bulkhead connectors (again), cleaned and reassembled again, no change. So back to square one. Have you checked the female terminal's to assure they have not opened up and are causing a poor connection for current? They sometimes need to be squeezed a bit to make adequate contact with the male terminals . This is especially true after multiple matings ( keep it clean guys ) Yes, I checked the female connectors and tried to squeeze them a bit to get a better connection. So hard to tell if that is happening though as you're blind to how well the connections are when it's one giant ' plug' with many connections through the firewall.
Mopar Or No Car
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Re: Overcharging issue driving me crazy
[Re: RapidRobert]
#3232506
05/13/24 10:56 AM
05/13/24 10:56 AM
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 3,683 The Historic Hudson Valley
MONC
OP
master
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OP
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 3,683
The Historic Hudson Valley
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I had this same problem in my 73 dart, in my case the A/C system had a dead short & was slow draining the battery then when I would start up & take off it would full field/peg it any any speed above idle. still havent dug into the A/C system to resolve it (access in the dash is cranped) but unplugging the 2 wire to the evaporator? took care of it for the time being. RR EDIT pulling a batt cable & voltmeter on amps inline between post & cable confirmed a 24/7 draw Makes sense. I was going to continue checking accessories and see if I can narrow anything down, thanks.
Mopar Or No Car
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Re: Overcharging issue driving me crazy
[Re: Andrewh]
#3232510
05/13/24 11:01 AM
05/13/24 11:01 AM
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 3,683 The Historic Hudson Valley
MONC
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just put the two leads together on one of the posts of the amp meter. that cuts it out of the circuit completely. as a temp check. then I would just splice the two lines together, or replace the meter. if as you said just swapped it in place of the old one and did not change the wiring. otherwise you could be dead shorting to ground which would be bad. lol. I am using the existing wires from the factory ammeter to connect to the aftermarket ammeter. Not sure how else to connect it. So I can connect both of those ammeter leads together without causing an issue ? I think I read the ammeter is wired in series, so that would make sense. But not sure how that would help diagnose the situation if power is still going through there. I've taken the original ammeter out of the equation at the moment with the aftermarket one.
Mopar Or No Car
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Re: Overcharging issue driving me crazy
[Re: MONC]
#3232608
05/13/24 06:14 PM
05/13/24 06:14 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 8,720
Andrewh
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just put the two leads together on one of the posts of the amp meter. that cuts it out of the circuit completely. as a temp check. then I would just splice the two lines together, or replace the meter. if as you said just swapped it in place of the old one and did not change the wiring. otherwise you could be dead shorting to ground which would be bad. lol. I am using the existing wires from the factory ammeter to connect to the aftermarket ammeter. Not sure how else to connect it. So I can connect both of those ammeter leads together without causing an issue ? I think I read the ammeter is wired in series, so that would make sense. But not sure how that would help diagnose the situation if power is still going through there. I've taken the original ammeter out of the equation at the moment with the aftermarket one. if that is your problem it takes it out of the circuit. if it isn't, then you will still have a problem. and can start chasing other parts down.
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