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Re: Overcharging issue driving me crazy [Re: TJP] #3231860
05/09/24 08:24 AM
05/09/24 08:24 AM
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Apollo, PA.
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the oldest trick in the book is to check battery voltage without it running, then start it and check again, If there is less when its running something is wrong. For it to out put 15 v at speed is fine to me, but 12v at idle is what concerns me. Maybe check the diodes.

Last edited by B1MAXX; 05/09/24 08:25 AM.
Re: Overcharging issue driving me crazy [Re: B1MAXX] #3232070
05/10/24 02:49 PM
05/10/24 02:49 PM
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So have a lot of other stuff going on, but did get a chance to get a grounding strap from motor to body installed in factory location. Double checked with meter and got good ground. Also double checked VR ground and it is good as well. I also removed leads from ammeter, cleaned them up and then installed an aftermarket ammeter using those leads ( was thinking maybe it was the gauge itself).

Good news is that seemed to solve the problem, got 14.4V at battery idling, and all other voltages were consistent, and gauge didn't peg to charge when revved.

But I couldn't leave well enough alone. I'd prefer to use the car's ammeter , so I re connected cleaned leads to gauge, restarted car and voltage dropped to similar reading of 12.5V at battery idling.
So I thought 'ok it was the gauge' . So I reconnected aftermarket gauge with those leads, and my voltage stayed the same at 12.5V and change at idle.

Rechecked connections, even took off bulkhead connectors (again), cleaned and reassembled again, no change.
So back to square one.


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Re: Overcharging issue driving me crazy [Re: MONC] #3232078
05/10/24 04:00 PM
05/10/24 04:00 PM
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I guess we can't say what it is yet, but you're closing in on it. You know it's not the ammeter at least. I'd go through everything you did the first time double and tripling checking the connections they make and also the condition of the wire in those areas too. Keep with it.

Re: Overcharging issue driving me crazy [Re: MONC] #3232107
05/10/24 08:23 PM
05/10/24 08:23 PM
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Freeport IL USA
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Originally Posted by MONC
So have a lot of other stuff going on, but did get a chance to get a grounding strap from motor to body installed in factory location. Double checked with meter and got good ground. Also double checked VR ground and it is good as well. I also removed leads from ammeter, cleaned them up and then installed an aftermarket ammeter using those leads ( was thinking maybe it was the gauge itself).

Good news is that seemed to solve the problem, got 14.4V at battery idling, and all other voltages were consistent, and gauge didn't peg to charge when revved.

But I couldn't leave well enough alone. I'd prefer to use the car's ammeter , so I re connected cleaned leads to gauge, restarted car and voltage dropped to similar reading of 12.5V at battery idling.
So I thought 'ok it was the gauge' . So I reconnected aftermarket gauge with those leads, and my voltage stayed the same at 12.5V and change at idle.

Rechecked connections, even took off bulkhead connectors (again), cleaned and reassembled again, no change.
So back to square one.



So, when you moved the wiring under the dash to reconnect the factory Amp gauge, and things changed, it would lead me to believe you either shifted a poor or loose connection that may have been ok before you moved it. It may be time to start giggling each wire under the dash. I would start at the dash and move towards the bulk head connector, one wire at a time, starting with the wires in the amp gauge circuit, or wires from the ignition switch that may have been moved. Its going to be a pita to find which wire connection is at fault. It won't be fun, but I'm betting that is where your problem is.

I had a 69 Chrysler that had a loose connector at the bulk head. I cleaned them all, and they all felt good pushing them back together, but that terminal that was causing the intermittent problem grew worse rather quickly. That one connection at the bulk head was clean, but just a little loose. Hit a bump on the road wrong, and the connection went from good to barely good enough, and finally to not at all. But as soon as the wire was wiggled, all was good again. t took me more then a month to find that one!

Re: Overcharging issue driving me crazy [Re: poorboy] #3232119
05/10/24 09:51 PM
05/10/24 09:51 PM
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Originally Posted by poorboy
Originally Posted by MONC
So have a lot of other stuff going on, but did get a chance to get a grounding strap from motor to body installed in factory location. Double checked with meter and got good ground. Also double checked VR ground and it is good as well. I also removed leads from ammeter, cleaned them up and then installed an aftermarket ammeter using those leads ( was thinking maybe it was the gauge itself).

Good news is that seemed to solve the problem, got 14.4V at battery idling, and all other voltages were consistent, and gauge didn't peg to charge when revved.

But I couldn't leave well enough alone. I'd prefer to use the car's ammeter , so I re connected cleaned leads to gauge, restarted car and voltage dropped to similar reading of 12.5V at battery idling.
So I thought 'ok it was the gauge' . So I reconnected aftermarket gauge with those leads, and my voltage stayed the same at 12.5V and change at idle.

Rechecked connections, even took off bulkhead connectors (again), cleaned and reassembled again, no change.
So back to square one.



So, when you moved the wiring under the dash to reconnect the factory Amp gauge, and things changed, it would lead me to believe you either shifted a poor or loose connection that may have been ok before you moved it. It may be time to start giggling each wire under the dash. I would start at the dash and move towards the bulk head connector, one wire at a time, starting with the wires in the amp gauge circuit, or wires from the ignition switch that may have been moved. Its going to be a pita to find which wire connection is at fault. It won't be fun, but I'm betting that is where your problem is.

I had a 69 Chrysler that had a loose connector at the bulk head. I cleaned them all, and they all felt good pushing them back together, but that terminal that was causing the intermittent problem grew worse rather quickly. That one connection at the bulk head was clean, but just a little loose. Hit a bump on the road wrong, and the connection went from good to barely good enough, and finally to not at all. But as soon as the wire was wiggled, all was good again. t took me more then a month to find that one!


I'll agree, beer

Re: Overcharging issue driving me crazy [Re: poorboy] #3232142
05/11/24 09:05 AM
05/11/24 09:05 AM
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The Historic Hudson Valley
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Originally Posted by poorboy
Originally Posted by MONC
So have a lot of other stuff going on, but did get a chance to get a grounding strap from motor to body installed in factory location. Double checked with meter and got good ground. Also double checked VR ground and it is good as well. I also removed leads from ammeter, cleaned them up and then installed an aftermarket ammeter using those leads ( was thinking maybe it was the gauge itself).

Good news is that seemed to solve the problem, got 14.4V at battery idling, and all other voltages were consistent, and gauge didn't peg to charge when revved.

But I couldn't leave well enough alone. I'd prefer to use the car's ammeter , so I re connected cleaned leads to gauge, restarted car and voltage dropped to similar reading of 12.5V at battery idling.
So I thought 'ok it was the gauge' . So I reconnected aftermarket gauge with those leads, and my voltage stayed the same at 12.5V and change at idle.

Rechecked connections, even took off bulkhead connectors (again), cleaned and reassembled again, no change.
So back to square one.



So, when you moved the wiring under the dash to reconnect the factory Amp gauge, and things changed, it would lead me to believe you either shifted a poor or loose connection that may have been ok before you moved it. It may be time to start giggling each wire under the dash. I would start at the dash and move towards the bulk head connector, one wire at a time, starting with the wires in the amp gauge circuit, or wires from the ignition switch that may have been moved. Its going to be a pita to find which wire connection is at fault. It won't be fun, but I'm betting that is where your problem is.

I had a 69 Chrysler that had a loose connector at the bulk head. I cleaned them all, and they all felt good pushing them back together, but that terminal that was causing the intermittent problem grew worse rather quickly. That one connection at the bulk head was clean, but just a little loose. Hit a bump on the road wrong, and the connection went from good to barely good enough, and finally to not at all. But as soon as the wire was wiggled, all was good again. t took me more then a month to find that one!


Yeah agree, and did some cursory 'jiggling' already. And as stated had the bulkhead apart a few times cleaning and tightening connections. Nothing so far.
Will try again today.


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Re: Overcharging issue driving me crazy [Re: MONC] #3232148
05/11/24 09:38 AM
05/11/24 09:38 AM
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Canada
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I recall Cudajason over on e-bodies.org had an overcharging issue and found an illusive breaking green wire on his VR plug.
https://forum.e-bodies.org/electrical-and-audio/11/-over-charging-issues-battery-issue-update/22970/

Last edited by EW1BH27; 05/11/24 09:38 AM.
Re: Overcharging issue driving me crazy [Re: EW1BH27] #3232222
05/11/24 06:36 PM
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Thanks for the link. Interesting. Will have to look into that.

In the meantime, I spent the day removing more accessories that are not used when I got the car, repairing connections and disconnecting radio and components.
After I was all done, I managed to make the situation worse. Now I am at about 12.3V at the battery when running.

Interestingly though when I rev the engine , the aftermarket ammeter gauge goes up to 30 then backs down to a mark on the gauge.
Not sure that is progress based on battery reading though.

Even after looking at wiring diagram, it is unclear to me how the voltage flows when ignition is in 'run' position?
Is it from battery to bulkhead, through gauge, then to alternator , VR, ballast resistor?


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Re: Overcharging issue driving me crazy [Re: MONC] #3232232
05/11/24 08:08 PM
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battery to bulkhead
bulkhead to amp meter
amp meter to ignition switch power
out through run or start.
back through the bulkhead
that line has a splice in it.
power goes to the VR, Ballast and Alt all from the same source.
so for a 2 field alt one field reads battery voltage, the other is coming from the VR.

Re: Overcharging issue driving me crazy [Re: MONC] #3232256
05/12/24 02:38 AM
05/12/24 02:38 AM
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Sounds like a bad amp meter circuit or gauge to me, try using a volt meter with that circuit bypass with a good jumpers or wire clips jump around it on the bulkhead connector wrench scope


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Re: Overcharging issue driving me crazy [Re: Andrewh] #3232273
05/12/24 09:20 AM
05/12/24 09:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Andrewh
battery to bulkhead
bulkhead to amp meter
amp meter to ignition switch power
out through run or start.
back through the bulkhead
that line has a splice in it.
power goes to the VR, Ballast and Alt all from the same source.
so for a 2 field alt one field reads battery voltage, the other is coming from the VR.


Thank you!
Would this then mean the issue has to be the wiring/connections between battery and the ammeter ( ie. bulkhead )?

Last edited by MONC; 05/12/24 09:50 AM.

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Re: Overcharging issue driving me crazy [Re: Cab_Burge] #3232274
05/12/24 09:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Cab_Burge
Sounds like a bad amp meter circuit or gauge to me, try using a volt meter with that circuit bypass with a good jumpers or wire clips jump around it on the bulkhead connector wrench scope


I am currently using an aftermarket ammeter gauge with the wires from the original harness.

Not sure how to complete the circuit bypass.
Do you have a step by step?


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Re: Overcharging issue driving me crazy [Re: MONC] #3232296
05/12/24 11:05 AM
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just put the two leads together on one of the posts of the amp meter.
that cuts it out of the circuit completely.
as a temp check.
then I would just splice the two lines together, or replace the meter.
if as you said just swapped it in place of the old one and did not change the wiring.
otherwise you could be dead shorting to ground which would be bad. lol.

Re: Overcharging issue driving me crazy [Re: MONC] #3232420
05/12/24 10:12 PM
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Originally Posted by MONC
So have a lot of other stuff going on, but did get a chance to get a grounding strap from motor to body installed in factory location. Double checked with meter and got good ground. Also double checked VR ground and it is good as well. I also removed leads from ammeter, cleaned them up and then installed an aftermarket ammeter using those leads ( was thinking maybe it was the gauge itself).

Good news is that seemed to solve the problem, got 14.4V at battery idling, and all other voltages were consistent, and gauge didn't peg to charge when revved.

But I couldn't leave well enough alone. I'd prefer to use the car's ammeter , so I re connected cleaned leads to gauge, restarted car and voltage dropped to similar reading of 12.5V at battery idling.
So I thought 'ok it was the gauge' . So I reconnected aftermarket gauge with those leads, and my voltage stayed the same at 12.5V and change at idle.

Rechecked connections, even took off bulkhead connectors (again), cleaned and reassembled again, no change.
So back to square one.


Have you checked the female terminal's to assure they have not opened up and are causing a poor connection for current? They sometimes need to be squeezed a bit to make adequate contact with the male terminals . This is especially true after multiple matings ( keep it clean guys wink ) grin

Re: Overcharging issue driving me crazy [Re: TJP] #3232488
05/13/24 10:14 AM
05/13/24 10:14 AM
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I had this same problem in my 73 dart, in my case the A/C system had a dead short & was slow draining the battery then when I would start up & take off it would full field/peg it any any speed above idle. still havent dug into the A/C system to resolve it (access in the dash is cranped) but unplugging the 2 wire to the evaporator? took care of it for the time being. RR EDIT pulling a batt cable & voltmeter on amps inline between post & cable confirmed a 24/7 draw

Last edited by RapidRobert; 05/13/24 10:17 AM.

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Re: Overcharging issue driving me crazy [Re: TJP] #3232505
05/13/24 10:55 AM
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Originally Posted by TJP
Originally Posted by MONC
So have a lot of other stuff going on, but did get a chance to get a grounding strap from motor to body installed in factory location. Double checked with meter and got good ground. Also double checked VR ground and it is good as well. I also removed leads from ammeter, cleaned them up and then installed an aftermarket ammeter using those leads ( was thinking maybe it was the gauge itself).

Good news is that seemed to solve the problem, got 14.4V at battery idling, and all other voltages were consistent, and gauge didn't peg to charge when revved.

But I couldn't leave well enough alone. I'd prefer to use the car's ammeter , so I re connected cleaned leads to gauge, restarted car and voltage dropped to similar reading of 12.5V at battery idling.
So I thought 'ok it was the gauge' . So I reconnected aftermarket gauge with those leads, and my voltage stayed the same at 12.5V and change at idle.

Rechecked connections, even took off bulkhead connectors (again), cleaned and reassembled again, no change.
So back to square one.


Have you checked the female terminal's to assure they have not opened up and are causing a poor connection for current? They sometimes need to be squeezed a bit to make adequate contact with the male terminals . This is especially true after multiple matings ( keep it clean guys wink ) grin


Yes, I checked the female connectors and tried to squeeze them a bit to get a better connection. So hard to tell if that is happening though as you're blind to how well the connections are when it's one giant ' plug' with many connections through the firewall.


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Re: Overcharging issue driving me crazy [Re: RapidRobert] #3232506
05/13/24 10:56 AM
05/13/24 10:56 AM
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Originally Posted by RapidRobert
I had this same problem in my 73 dart, in my case the A/C system had a dead short & was slow draining the battery then when I would start up & take off it would full field/peg it any any speed above idle. still havent dug into the A/C system to resolve it (access in the dash is cranped) but unplugging the 2 wire to the evaporator? took care of it for the time being. RR EDIT pulling a batt cable & voltmeter on amps inline between post & cable confirmed a 24/7 draw


Makes sense. I was going to continue checking accessories and see if I can narrow anything down, thanks.


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Re: Overcharging issue driving me crazy [Re: Andrewh] #3232510
05/13/24 11:01 AM
05/13/24 11:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Andrewh
just put the two leads together on one of the posts of the amp meter.
that cuts it out of the circuit completely.
as a temp check.
then I would just splice the two lines together, or replace the meter.
if as you said just swapped it in place of the old one and did not change the wiring.
otherwise you could be dead shorting to ground which would be bad. lol.


I am using the existing wires from the factory ammeter to connect to the aftermarket ammeter. Not sure how else to connect it.

So I can connect both of those ammeter leads together without causing an issue ? I think I read the ammeter is wired in series, so that would make sense.
But not sure how that would help diagnose the situation if power is still going through there. I've taken the original ammeter out of the equation at the moment with the aftermarket one.


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Re: Overcharging issue driving me crazy [Re: MONC] #3232512
05/13/24 11:19 AM
05/13/24 11:19 AM
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If you have a cigertte light recepticle get one of the plug in digital voltmeters and you can see what's happening that way. https://www.amazon.com/Cigarette-Li...voltmeter&qid=1715613918&sr=8-32

Re: Overcharging issue driving me crazy [Re: MONC] #3232608
05/13/24 06:14 PM
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Originally Posted by MONC
Originally Posted by Andrewh
just put the two leads together on one of the posts of the amp meter.
that cuts it out of the circuit completely.
as a temp check.
then I would just splice the two lines together, or replace the meter.
if as you said just swapped it in place of the old one and did not change the wiring.
otherwise you could be dead shorting to ground which would be bad. lol.


I am using the existing wires from the factory ammeter to connect to the aftermarket ammeter. Not sure how else to connect it.

So I can connect both of those ammeter leads together without causing an issue ? I think I read the ammeter is wired in series, so that would make sense.
But not sure how that would help diagnose the situation if power is still going through there. I've taken the original ammeter out of the equation at the moment with the aftermarket one.

if that is your problem it takes it out of the circuit.
if it isn't, then you will still have a problem.
and can start chasing other parts down.

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