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Re: Cutting spring seats on 440-1 heads?
[Re: moparacer]
#3218179
03/04/24 11:42 PM
03/04/24 11:42 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,127
Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,127
Bend,OR USA
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Last edited by Cab_Burge; 03/05/24 03:11 AM.
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: Cutting spring seats on 440-1 heads?
[Re: dvw]
#3218182
03/05/24 12:07 AM
03/05/24 12:07 AM
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 2,497
PA
moparacer
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OP
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When I’ve used PAC stuff together it’s been spot on.
Doug Thing is, these locks should be PAC too. Only thing I can figure is maybe the locks got switched out at the machine shop somewhere along the line when I had the heads freshened. I need to order PAC locks and see where they measure up compared to what I have.
67 Barracuda street/bracket car 11.27-119
68 Dart 502 BB 8.70s-152
414 cid SB Dragster 7.65-174
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Re: Cutting spring seats on 440-1 heads?
[Re: HardcoreB]
#3218227
03/05/24 09:20 AM
03/05/24 09:20 AM
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,853
Pattison Texas
CSK
master
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master
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,853
Pattison Texas
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Come to think of it...on the single shaft SR set-up I put the installed height on the 1225's with a 405 retainer closer to 1.97 with a .06 locater. Mapping out the sweep for .740net, it helped moving the shafts up. I had new sleeves (which adapted the shafts from the .750 fulcrum to the standard Mopar pedestal) made that used an offset hole. This raised the shaft some which also increased rocker clearance. The TD rockers I had had an undercut for spring clearance which compromises the service life of the rocker. That's one reason I erred on the light side for open pressure. & that is what the B3 spacers do  also correcting the geometry
1968 Charger COLD A/C Hilborn EFI
512ci 9.7 compression, Stealth heads, 4.10 gear A518 ODtrans 4100lb,10.93 full street car trim
2020 T/A 392 Stock 11.79 @ 114.5
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Re: Cutting spring seats on 440-1 heads?
[Re: moparacer]
#3218231
03/05/24 09:35 AM
03/05/24 09:35 AM
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Joined: Jan 2022
Posts: 138
Connellsville
71Demon528
member
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member
Joined: Jan 2022
Posts: 138
Connellsville
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OK so I dug out some old comp tool steel retainers I had on it before and tested them with the locks. 1.955 and with the +.050 2.05.... So the PAC retainers and Comp locks dont like each other, just like you said. In PAC's catalog it says this about the locks... We have standardized the spring retainer “cone style” to improve specifying the fitment
into a matching PAC Racing retainer. That sounds like some Chinese garbled english saying we took 10 degree locks and retainers and made them not quite 10 degree.....  And then I noticed on Summit, the PAC R405 retainer is listed as a +.050? Really? Its not listed as a +.050 in PAC's catalog......So which is it? .050 +.050 still doesn't add up to .070  Put a little bigger cam in it I thought......Just change the installed height I thought......Silly me thinking this might be easy.  Your car is fast and consistent. I’d leave it alone. Lol
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Re: Cutting spring seats on 440-1 heads?
[Re: 71Demon528]
#3218240
03/05/24 10:26 AM
03/05/24 10:26 AM
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 2,497
PA
moparacer
OP
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Come to think of it...on the single shaft SR set-up I put the installed height on the 1225's with a 405 retainer closer to 1.97 with a .06 locater. Mapping out the sweep for .740net, it helped moving the shafts up. I had new sleeves (which adapted the shafts from the .750 fulcrum to the standard Mopar pedestal) made that used an offset hole. This raised the shaft some which also increased rocker clearance. The TD rockers I had had an undercut for spring clearance which compromises the service life of the rocker. That's one reason I erred on the light side for open pressure. The sweep on my heads the way they are set up has always been perfect. Thank god I never had to go through all that. After what simple cam and spring height change has turned into I don't want any part of that. I might race Mopars, but I have always said I would be way ahead of the game and closer to retirement if I stayed with a BBC all these years. I originally was a GM guy.  Walmart probably has all the parts in stock today to get my spring height corrected. :laugh2 Your car is fast and consistent. I’d leave it alone. Lol Thanks 71. As is your car too! I have always wanted to swap the cam out as this old cam is from way back in the day when I was footbraking running gas. It works, but you know how it is when you are running something that you are pretty sure is holding you back. If I cant come up with a plan this week it will get cleaned up and put back in.
67 Barracuda street/bracket car 11.27-119
68 Dart 502 BB 8.70s-152
414 cid SB Dragster 7.65-174
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Re: Cutting spring seats on 440-1 heads?
[Re: CSK]
#3218242
03/05/24 10:29 AM
03/05/24 10:29 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,045
Shelby Twp. Mi
HardcoreB
master
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Posts: 4,045
Shelby Twp. Mi
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Come to think of it...on the single shaft SR set-up I put the installed height on the 1225's with a 405 retainer closer to 1.97 with a .06 locater. Mapping out the sweep for .740net, it helped moving the shafts up. I had new sleeves (which adapted the shafts from the .750 fulcrum to the standard Mopar pedestal) made that used an offset hole. This raised the shaft some which also increased rocker clearance. The TD rockers I had had an undercut for spring clearance which compromises the service life of the rocker. That's one reason I erred on the light side for open pressure. & that is what the B3 spacers do also correcting the geometry Respectfully, I was careful not to say what I did optimized the geometry but, it was an improvement. B3 is a sharp guy his kit articulates the fulcrum differently. Also, I looked at some old pics and see I used the r505 retainer...not the 405.
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Re: Cutting spring seats on 440-1 heads?
[Re: moparacer]
#3218247
03/05/24 10:34 AM
03/05/24 10:34 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,045
Shelby Twp. Mi
HardcoreB
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,045
Shelby Twp. Mi
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[quote=HardcoreB]
The sweep on my heads the way they are set up has always been perfect. Thank god I never had to go through all that. After what simple cam and spring height change has turned into I don't want any part of that.
If I cant come up with a plan this week it will get cleaned up and put back in.
That's good to learn. It seemed on mine they looked good until about .700 net then started sweeping inward past the point of origin IIRC. As much as I contradict the action, I agree and probably wouldn't recommend messing with what's working so well.
Last edited by HardcoreB; 03/05/24 10:38 AM. Reason: details
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Re: Cutting spring seats on 440-1 heads?
[Re: moparacer]
#3218255
03/05/24 11:14 AM
03/05/24 11:14 AM
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Joined: Jan 2022
Posts: 138
Connellsville
71Demon528
member
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member
Joined: Jan 2022
Posts: 138
Connellsville
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Come to think of it...on the single shaft SR set-up I put the installed height on the 1225's with a 405 retainer closer to 1.97 with a .06 locater. Mapping out the sweep for .740net, it helped moving the shafts up. I had new sleeves (which adapted the shafts from the .750 fulcrum to the standard Mopar pedestal) made that used an offset hole. This raised the shaft some which also increased rocker clearance. The TD rockers I had had an undercut for spring clearance which compromises the service life of the rocker. That's one reason I erred on the light side for open pressure. The sweep on my heads the way they are set up has always been perfect. Thank god I never had to go through all that. After what simple cam and spring height change has turned into I don't want any part of that. I might race Mopars, but I have always said I would be way ahead of the game and closer to retirement if I stayed with a BBC all these years. I originally was a GM guy. Walmart probably has all the parts in stock today to get my spring height corrected. :laugh2 Your car is fast and consistent. I’d leave it alone. Lol Thanks 71. As is your car too! I have always wanted to swap the cam out as this old cam is from way back in the day when I was footbraking running gas. It works, but you know how it is when you are running something that you are pretty sure is holding you back. If I cant come up with a plan this week it will get cleaned up and put back in. Trust me I get it. If we as racers aren’t trying to continue to make things better, we get bored. Especially in the off season. I’ll be looking forward to see your outcome.
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Re: Cutting spring seats on 440-1 heads?
[Re: 71Demon528]
#3218400
03/05/24 06:07 PM
03/05/24 06:07 PM
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 2,497
PA
moparacer
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Well I figured out how DVW can run a 1.6250 and I can't awhile ago. My old T&D rocker on bottom and the newer bushed set I run now on top. Deeper clearance cut. I did break one of the old intakes. That deeper cut is definately weaker. ![[Linked Image]](https://i.postimg.cc/wMCFgwHv/IMG-0735.jpg)
Last edited by moparacer; 03/05/24 06:10 PM.
67 Barracuda street/bracket car 11.27-119
68 Dart 502 BB 8.70s-152
414 cid SB Dragster 7.65-174
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Re: Cutting spring seats on 440-1 heads?
[Re: dvw]
#3218566
03/06/24 12:36 PM
03/06/24 12:36 PM
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 2,497
PA
moparacer
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These are way old. Used when I bought them in 2012.
Doug OK nevermind....I see now. You have the paired rocker shaft setup....Different deal altogether. I still run the peasant full shaft T&D setup. 
67 Barracuda street/bracket car 11.27-119
68 Dart 502 BB 8.70s-152
414 cid SB Dragster 7.65-174
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