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Need Opinion on Cam bearing #4 Oil Hole #3210711
02/04/24 11:49 PM
02/04/24 11:49 PM
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Pennsylvania
19_Dart_68 Offline OP
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If you are a machinist or an engine builder, you are who I am looking for professional advice from. I will welcome any opinions, as well.

Please check out the pics. The pic is looking up through the #4 main journal oil passage to the cam bearing. The bearing appears to be turned just a bit...Looking at all of the other bearings, the oil holes in the cam bearing themselves are a little smaller than the main bearing oil holes.
I need to know if what I'm seeing in the pic warrants any action at all, or is it ok as is?
If it is not kosher, then can the cam bearing hole be enlarged with a round machinist file? Or will that ruin the bearing (Assuming that it is being enlarged from the bottom through the main bearing oil passage)
Or, should the bearing be replaced?






20240204_223100.jpgScreenshot_20240204_222919_Gallery.jpg
Last edited by 19_Dart_68; 02/05/24 11:28 AM.
Re: Need Opinion on Cam bearing #4 Oil Hole [Re: 19_Dart_68] #3210716
02/05/24 12:26 AM
02/05/24 12:26 AM
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I’m not a machinist nor professional builder, but I have built a bunch of Mopar engines including installing cam bearings on all builds. Depending on the direction/ viewpoint of pics, looks like the bearing was driven in slightly too far or too shallow.

In my opinion, it just needs to be pressed in slightly farther, or if it is slightly too far, , needs to be driven out and reinstalled lining up the oil holes perfectly. It prob would run and oil just fine, but on engines I build, that would be a correction i would carry out.


1.50 60Ft. , 10.75@ 127MPH Hauling 3900 LBS.
Re: Need Opinion on Cam bearing #4 Oil Hole [Re: 19_Dart_68] #3210730
02/05/24 02:23 AM
02/05/24 02:23 AM
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What is the application, street, street and strip or race only.
Do you want to oil the rocker arms and valve springs full time? If your cam is not grooved on the #4 cam journal for full time oiling the rocker arms you could remove that bearing and have it groove on the inside, say the width of the hole and ..015 to 030 or so deep) and reinstalled it. wrench
If this a street application with a flat tappet cam I wouldn't worry about changing the bearing location at all twocents work up


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Need Opinion on Cam bearing #4 Oil Hole [Re: Cab_Burge] #3210749
02/05/24 08:55 AM
02/05/24 08:55 AM
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B1MAXX Offline
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Fine.

Re: Need Opinion on Cam bearing #4 Oil Hole [Re: Cab_Burge] #3210750
02/05/24 09:17 AM
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19_Dart_68 Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Cab_Burge
What is the application, street, street and strip or race only.
Do you want to oil the rocker arms and valve springs full time? If your cam is not grooved on the #4 cam journal for full time oiling the rocker arms you could remove that bearing and have it groove on the inside, say the width of the hole and ..015 to 030 or so deep) and reinstalled it. wrench
If this a street application with a flat tappet cam I wouldn't worry about changing the bearing location at all twocents work up


505 (RB) stroker, standard BB oiling, but will have the external Milodon system w/single static pickup. Hydraulic roller, Mancini/Harland Sharp Roller Rockers, TrickFlow 240's, mostly street but needs to perfom on the track too.

Thanks


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Re: Need Opinion on Cam bearing #4 Oil Hole [Re: B1MAXX] #3210766
02/05/24 10:13 AM
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Originally Posted by B1MAXX
Fine.



iagree


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Re: Need Opinion on Cam bearing #4 Oil Hole [Re: 19_Dart_68] #3210770
02/05/24 10:27 AM
02/05/24 10:27 AM
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If anecdotal experiences count, I have seen worse (a few times much worse) alignments but have never seen a problem from it. The only problem I have seen in that area (and have seen it more than a few times) is when the cam bore is crooked and spins one or more cam bearings.


Master, again and still
Re: Need Opinion on Cam bearing #4 Oil Hole [Re: 19_Dart_68] #3210806
02/05/24 12:33 PM
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I wouldn't worry too much about that but it would make me want to double check the passages that feed oil to the mains from the gallery. The main oil feed passages need to be verified on any race engine since the factory often did a poor job of machining them. They work fine on a 300 hp passenger car but they won't flow enough for a 600 or 700 hp race engine. Some engine builders know to run a reamer thru them, others don't.

Re: Need Opinion on Cam bearing #4 Oil Hole [Re: AndyF] #3210814
02/05/24 01:04 PM
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rickseeman Online content
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We all want the oil passage to match the bearing. It makes us feel better. It's prettier. All that passage feeds is 1 cam bearing and the rockers. I'll take a very conservative guess and say your slight misalignment means that passageway can only flow 50-100 times that amount. Put it together. No one will ever know except you and me and I'm not telling anyone.


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Re: Need Opinion on Cam bearing #4 Oil Hole [Re: rickseeman] #3210816
02/05/24 01:09 PM
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Some even intentionally clock them to restrict oil there.

Re: Need Opinion on Cam bearing #4 Oil Hole [Re: AndyF] #3210842
02/05/24 03:07 PM
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Originally Posted by AndyF
I wouldn't worry too much about that but it would make me want to double check the passages that feed oil to the mains from the gallery. The main oil feed passages need to be verified on any race engine since the factory often did a poor job of machining them. They work fine on a 300 hp passenger car but they won't flow enough for a 600 or 700 hp race engine. Some engine builders know to run a reamer thru them, others don't.


I've seen multiple recommendations on the passage enlargement.
What do you recommend as far as sizes of the reamers (1/4" vs. 9/32") and which passages to enlarge? I think Herb McCandless originally said to not touch the #1 main passage....which is why I ask.

Last edited by 19_Dart_68; 02/05/24 03:11 PM.

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Re: Need Opinion on Cam bearing #4 Oil Hole [Re: 19_Dart_68] #3210876
02/05/24 04:56 PM
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You may have seen multiple recommendations on passage enlargement. That's a racer thing. They think if they drill the oil passages out then their bearings will "get more oil". Tom Hoover says to find something else to do with your time, the passages are large enough. And I believe him.


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Re: Need Opinion on Cam bearing #4 Oil Hole [Re: 19_Dart_68] #3210913
02/05/24 07:18 PM
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You are overthinking it, those holes provide oil for the cam journals, remember the camshaft spins at 1/2 engine speed. that small of a misalignment will cause no grief. The holes you got to worry about are the ones that feed oil to the rocker shafts, I have seen new cam bearings that these holes would align on one bank but not the other. And I taught engine building at a technical college for 15 years. Still build a few race engines at home.

Re: Need Opinion on Cam bearing #4 Oil Hole [Re: JohnRR] #3210926
02/05/24 08:11 PM
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Originally Posted by JohnRR
Originally Posted by B1MAXX
Fine.



iagree


That hole could be blocked by half and still get more than enough oil to the head.

I've oiled the entire head through a .063 hole at 7500 RPM and had just a touch of rocker wear after a few hundred runs. And my rod bearings thanked me.

Concentrate on the right side galley and the passages to the mains. The rest of it is already too big.

I'm assuming a small block.

Last edited by CMcAllister; 02/05/24 08:17 PM.

If the results don't match the theory, change the theory.
Re: Need Opinion on Cam bearing #4 Oil Hole [Re: 19_Dart_68] #3210947
02/05/24 09:14 PM
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Originally Posted by 19_Dart_68
Originally Posted by AndyF
I wouldn't worry too much about that but it would make me want to double check the passages that feed oil to the mains from the gallery. The main oil feed passages need to be verified on any race engine since the factory often did a poor job of machining them. They work fine on a 300 hp passenger car but they won't flow enough for a 600 or 700 hp race engine. Some engine builders know to run a reamer thru them, others don't.


I've seen multiple recommendations on the passage enlargement.
What do you recommend as far as sizes of the reamers (1/4" vs. 9/32") and which passages to enlarge? I think Herb McCandless originally said to not touch the #1 main passage....which is why I ask.


I don't enlarge the passages, I just make sure that they are open all the way thru. Sometimes they are stepped down internally or partially blocked. You need extra long reamers for the task which you can buy from McMaster Carr. You need to be super careful when messing around with those passages. If you but a reamer off inside the block then you just created a big paperweight.

Re: Need Opinion on Cam bearing #4 Oil Hole [Re: 19_Dart_68] #3211038
02/06/24 05:22 AM
02/06/24 05:22 AM
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I've had some bearings where you can line one side up mint, but the other side is slightly off like your pics. I'm now in the habit of slotting the holes with my die grinder & then chamfer the bearing face side with a stone. Seems to work great, no problems with oil at the rockers on any junk I build.

Re: Need Opinion on Cam bearing #4 Oil Hole [Re: rebel] #3211045
02/06/24 08:51 AM
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That's the cam bearing right? Don't enlarge anything there and your placement is fine. Period. The only thing being oiled there is the cam bearing journal and the heads.

Re: Need Opinion on Cam bearing #4 Oil Hole [Re: B1MAXX] #3211046
02/06/24 08:53 AM
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Any suggested reaming should be in the galley feeding the mains not where your looking.

Re: Need Opinion on Cam bearing #4 Oil Hole [Re: B1MAXX] #3211053
02/06/24 09:36 AM
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Originally Posted by B1MAXX
Any suggested reaming should be in the galley feeding the mains not where your looking.


Exactly , if anything you want to restrict the oil going to all the cam journals except for #4 , the first block I did this to I loctited set screws with a smaller hole drilled down the middle , now I just drill a smaller hole in a different spot and put the smaller hole over the passage.

Definitely check those angled holes , I had a 400 block that had partially blocked holes going down to the crank from the main galley , I open them up to 9/32" with a reamer per the recommendations I got from Herb McCandless years ago.


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Re: Need Opinion on Cam bearing #4 Oil Hole [Re: JohnRR] #3211059
02/06/24 10:18 AM
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Thanks for all the great info, gents. It is much appreciated!


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