Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Replace dual source HVAC? #3207142
01/22/24 11:48 AM
01/22/24 11:48 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,768
St. Louis, Missouri area
Cometstorm Offline OP
"Beat It"
Cometstorm  Offline OP
"Beat It"

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,768
St. Louis, Missouri area
Our HVAC is 16 years old and has never had any serious issues.

It’s a Trane system with electronic air cleaner called “Clean Effects” I think.

HVAC is dual source: Tanked liquid propane 35 F or under, heat pump 36 F or higher., with in-line humidifier and AC.

500 gallon LP tank.

2100 square foot single story home, with unfinished walkout basement.

I heard a local HVAC company owner on radio, discussing HVAC issues in this frigid weather.

During the conversation, he said they are running a 15% total discount until mid Fedruary.

He also said overall HVAC costs will be increasing notably this year due to federal regulations.

So I was discussing all this with wifey.

My view is to strongly consider replacing entire HVAC now, take advantage of current costs… especially at 16 years old.

She’s of the “If it ain’t broke, don’t replace it” mentality.

During the winter furnace check a month ago (different company / original Trane install company), the tech said I should have them replace the burners next visit in six months. Around $200 me thinks, so not huge cost)

This company on the radio is Lennox oriented, and about four miles away, whereas the original installer company is about ten miles away. I mention this as servicing appointments might be a tad easier with the closer company.

They are both king time family owned companies, with consistent stellar online reviews and A+ BBB ratings.

They should be calling, as I left an online info request while they were closed over the weekend.

So, which way would you all lean, with the above info.

Keep as is and roll the dice, or replace?

I’m thinking it could quite possibly be a $2k or so saving doing it now.

Come on…. Be honest!

I won’t sic the wife on ya! biggrin


Re: Replace dual source HVAC? [Re: Cometstorm] #3207168
01/22/24 01:16 PM
01/22/24 01:16 PM
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,509
Tulsa, Oklahoma
340Cuda Offline
master
340Cuda  Offline
master

Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,509
Tulsa, Oklahoma
If it was me I would evaluate all the options then make a decision to replace the burners in the current unit or the whole system. I used to manage a few duplexes and we used Tranes that were maintained twice a year. I think most of them went twenty years or so. These were not heat pumps but natural gas furnaces and it was usually the AC side that failed before the furnace.

I think with new heat pumps you may be able to eliminate the dual fuel or at least sustainably lower the temperature that the propane kicks in.

Both Lenox and Trane are good companies. I would talk to both contractors.

Let us know what you find out.

Re: Replace dual source HVAC? [Re: 340Cuda] #3207212
01/22/24 03:02 PM
01/22/24 03:02 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,768
St. Louis, Missouri area
Cometstorm Offline OP
"Beat It"
Cometstorm  Offline OP
"Beat It"

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,768
St. Louis, Missouri area
Thank you! up

Just checked my records. The HVAC is 17 years old, not 16.

Paid approx $9800 in 2007.

(Plus the LP tank setup and workings, which is a separate thing).

The Lennox company is coming tomorrow afternoon for a consultation.
Will advise. wave

Re: Replace dual source HVAC? [Re: Cometstorm] #3207281
01/22/24 06:04 PM
01/22/24 06:04 PM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,880
Oregon
hooziewhatsit Offline
master
hooziewhatsit  Offline
master

Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,880
Oregon
There are dual source (gas & heat pump) furnaces now that can run the heat pump side down to -5° F outside temperatures, and still have a COP greater than 1. Then most all of your shoulder season heating could be done that way, with the gas backup for when it's really cold.

I'd find an online calculator for BTUs/$, and compare the cost for Heat pump vs gas.

Plus the IRA has some good tax credits for upgrades.

I'm looking at this one for our rental. https://hvacdirect.com/1-5-ton-14-5...-and-heat-pump-system-upflow-133745.html

Page 19, find the COP row, with outdoor temperature in each column. https://hvacdirect.com/media/pdf/GSZH5%20Spec%20Sheet.pdf

Good overview of heat pumps in chicago (cold!). https://youtu.be/MFEHFsO-XSI?si=7qBNw_obpEmUAMhI&t=516


If you ever find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck.
Re: Replace dual source HVAC? [Re: Cometstorm] #3207510
01/23/24 01:26 PM
01/23/24 01:26 PM
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 1,701
central il.
S
second 70 Offline
top fuel
second 70  Offline
top fuel
S

Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 1,701
central il.
Most of my friends who have newer homes the furnaces had to be replaced in 20 years. Older gas units are good for over 30.

Re: Replace dual source HVAC? [Re: Cometstorm] #3207612
01/23/24 06:58 PM
01/23/24 06:58 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,316
Great White North
W
Wheeler Offline
Master
Wheeler  Offline
Master
W

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,316
Great White North
Originally Posted by Cometstorm
Thank you! up

Just checked my records. The HVAC is 17 years old, not 16.

Paid approx $9800 in 2007.

(Plus the LP tank setup and workings, which is a separate thing).

The Lennox company is coming tomorrow afternoon for a consultation.
Will advise. wave


My family replaced the furnace and installed air conditioning several years ago. We went with the Lennox EL296V furnace and 13ACX air conditioner.

The furnace and a/c have been great. No problems at all. Our previous furnace was a 40 year old Lennox which was still working, but at the end of it's life.

If you go with Lennox - don't get the Merit series. Get the Elite series. The Signature series is good, but more expensive.

The biggest key is the contractor and installation.

Good luck! thumbs

Re: Replace dual source HVAC? [Re: Wheeler] #3207637
01/23/24 08:53 PM
01/23/24 08:53 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,768
St. Louis, Missouri area
Cometstorm Offline OP
"Beat It"
Cometstorm  Offline OP
"Beat It"

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,768
St. Louis, Missouri area
Thanks all! up

Lennox local owner just left after a 2 hour visit.

A fair amount of the visit was just great conversation on a variety of things.

He started his company 20 years ago. Ten employees,

We are going with a four ton Elite series. 19 seer.

Variable speed.

Steam electric powered humidifier ($ 1400), and electronic air scrubber ($ 950).

The.scrubber was debatable, but what the heck. As you get older, allergies tend to get worse.

He positively refused any upfront payment.

Will not take a cent until after installation date (Jan 31)

After all discounts on rebates (his own, Lennox, and Federal), total cost is around $13,500 or so.

Not a bargain, just a fair deal me thinks.

Just a REAL down to earth family guy.

Didn’t oversell a thing.

up

Re: Replace dual source HVAC? [Re: Cometstorm] #3207645
01/23/24 09:30 PM
01/23/24 09:30 PM
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 6,233
nowhere
S
Sniper Offline
master
Sniper  Offline
master
S

Joined: May 2019
Posts: 6,233
nowhere
I replaced my HVAC about 5-6 years ago, the old one was 17 years old and starting to nickle and dime us. Got a Trane, cost about $10k back then, had to redo the plenum to correct an air distribution issue that house has since we moved in. So your costs, including your upgrades, isn't too out of line. One real nice thing is that my summer AC bills dropped about 75%, from ~$400 a month to ~$100.

Re: Replace dual source HVAC? [Re: Cometstorm] #3207834
01/24/24 02:32 PM
01/24/24 02:32 PM
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,509
Tulsa, Oklahoma
340Cuda Offline
master
340Cuda  Offline
master

Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,509
Tulsa, Oklahoma
Cometstorm,

Is your new unit dual fuel or heat pump only?

Sounds like a nice unit either way that will serve you well.

Re: Replace dual source HVAC? [Re: 340Cuda] #3207952
01/24/24 11:50 PM
01/24/24 11:50 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,768
St. Louis, Missouri area
Cometstorm Offline OP
"Beat It"
Cometstorm  Offline OP
"Beat It"

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,768
St. Louis, Missouri area
Originally Posted by 340Cuda
Cometstorm,

Is your new unit dual fuel or heat pump only?

Sounds like a nice unit either way that will serve you well.



Thanks Cuda!

It’s dual…

Heat pump over 35 F

Liquid propane under 35 F

Re: Replace dual source HVAC? [Re: Cometstorm] #3208466
01/27/24 12:12 PM
01/27/24 12:12 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,768
St. Louis, Missouri area
Cometstorm Offline OP
"Beat It"
Cometstorm  Offline OP
"Beat It"

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,768
St. Louis, Missouri area
I was wrong on costs…

HVAC being replaced is a Trane heat pump + ‘Iiquid propane furnace, two stage.

It was $9000 in 2007.

System going in is a Lennox Signature furnace with an Elite Series four ton
Heat pump. Variable speed setup on both. 90,000 BTU rating.

Adding a steam humidifier, and electronic air scrubber. Those two items add about $2500.

Total cost (after federal rebate), around $16,500.

I kinda choked on the price increase from 2007.

Then did some checking: $1 in 2007 is $1.50
Today! eek

So the $9000 install in 2007 would be $13,500 today.

With the steam humidifier and scrubber added to the new HVAC, the numbers work out very close to even.

Hope to save some real bucks (or recover substantial initial costwith the increased Seer of 19 (vs around 12), and the variable speed technology.

In those costs, they are also installing a HVAC surge suppressor, along with a whole house surge protector.







Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1