"hate this piston design" - Moparts Forums

Register Log In Moparts Forums Unlawfl's Race & Engine Tech "hate this piston design"

Print Thread

Page 1 of 2

1

2

"hate this piston design" #3206039 01/18/24 09:11 PM 01/18/24 09:11 PM
Joined: Sep 2018 Posts: 166 West Palm Beach, Florida C Craig J OP member
Craig J OP member C Joined: Sep 2018 Posts: 166 West Palm Beach, Florida	Last week I was going to sell the crank, rods, pistons, fresh machined 0.030 over RB block to make a 493, and a local buyer informed me that his mopar consultant 'hates' this piston design. I am a curious why these won't work in an 87 octane street car RB stroker application. Sorry the pics are sideways... technology has defeated me on fixing that... Thanks Craig Last edited by Craig J; 01/18/24 09:21 PM.

Re: "hate this piston design" [Re: Craig J] #3206041 01/18/24 09:29 PM 01/18/24 09:29 PM
Joined: Sep 2018 Posts: 166 West Palm Beach, Florida C Craig J OP member
Craig J OP member C Joined: Sep 2018 Posts: 166 West Palm Beach, Florida	Originally Posted by Craig J Last week I was going to sell the crank, rods, pistons, fresh machined 0.030 over RB block to make a 493, and a local buyer informed me that his mopar consultant 'hates' this piston design. I am a curious why these won't work in an 87 octane street car RB stroker application. Sorry the pics are sideways... technology has defeated me on fixing that... Thanks Craig

Re: "hate this piston design" [Re: Craig J] #3206044 01/18/24 09:52 PM 01/18/24 09:52 PM
Joined: Oct 2005 Posts: 270 Anchorage, Alaska metallicareload enthusiast
metallicareload enthusiast Joined: Oct 2005 Posts: 270 Anchorage, Alaska	I have heard an engine builder say they don't like dished pistons they didn't elaborate why. With a quench pad, I don't see why they would be much worse than flattops? 440, 4-Speed, 3.54 1968, when Dinosaurs ruled the Earth

Re: "hate this piston design" [Re: Craig J] #3206045 01/18/24 09:56 PM 01/18/24 09:56 PM
Joined: Nov 2015 Posts: 876 Missouri J jwb123 super stock
jwb123 super stock J Joined: Nov 2015 Posts: 876 Missouri	For a low compression street engine what is wrong with them? What kind of pistons are they Cast, Forged, or Hypereutectic? Lot of guys don't like Hypereutectic type pistons, but for a street engine not an issue, most stock engines now have hypereutectic style pistons, many old part number cast pistons have been replaced with hypereutectic style pistons. Just have to set a couple clearances different. Heck, I have used them with good success in mild drag engines. next question is what kind of chamber? If it is a 906 style open chamber, I would not like them either, no quench, if using a closed chamber head then again what is wrong with them?

Re: "hate this piston design" [Re: jwb123] #3206046 01/18/24 10:11 PM 01/18/24 10:11 PM
Joined: Sep 2018 Posts: 166 West Palm Beach, Florida C Craig J OP member
Craig J OP member C Joined: Sep 2018 Posts: 166 West Palm Beach, Florida	Originally Posted by jwb123 For a low compression street engine what is wrong with them? What kind of pistons are they Cast, Forged, or Hypereutectic? Lot of guys don't like Hypereutectic type pistons, but for a street engine not an issue, most stock engines now have hypereutectic style pistons, many old part number cast pistons have been replaced with hypereutectic style pistons. Just have to set a couple clearances different. Heck, I have used them with good success in mild drag engines. next question is what kind of chamber? If it is a 906 style open chamber, I would not like them either, no quench, if using a closed chamber head then again what is wrong with them? Pistons are forged 2618.

Re: "hate this piston design" [Re: Craig J] #3206067 01/18/24 11:39 PM 01/18/24 11:39 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 31,037 Oregon A AndyF I Win
AndyF I Win A Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 31,037 Oregon	What head are those designed for? The step design looks like something for an open chamber cast iron head? I'm not sure why there is a step up and a dish on the same piston unless it was an attempt to get some quench with an open chamber head? If you have a block, crank and rods for sale you might just sell that combo and let the buyer get their own pistons. Most people run TF heads these days so the stepped design isn't going to work.

Re: "hate this piston design" [Re: AndyF] #3206068 01/18/24 11:52 PM 01/18/24 11:52 PM
Joined: Oct 2005 Posts: 270 Anchorage, Alaska metallicareload enthusiast
metallicareload enthusiast Joined: Oct 2005 Posts: 270 Anchorage, Alaska	If they were designed for open chambers there would be some kind of pop up dome right? These look like every other Big Block stroker piston which have a quench pad on the intake side, and a dish everywhere else. I would think a quench area around the spark plug would be beneficial, but what do I know, I'm a filthy street guy. 440, 4-Speed, 3.54 1968, when Dinosaurs ruled the Earth

Re: "hate this piston design" [Re: Craig J] #3206078 01/19/24 12:33 AM 01/19/24 12:33 AM
Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 8,040 Mt Morris Michigan mopar dave master
mopar dave master Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 8,040 Mt Morris Michigan	Looks like an ICON piston. Same design i use in a 511 with victor heads. I was told these are a very nice piston at an affordable price. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aIxaesJ190U http://youtu.be/lCZAaN7fFLg

Re: "hate this piston design" [Re: Craig J] #3206089 01/19/24 03:35 AM 01/19/24 03:35 AM
Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 43,190 Bend,OR USA C Cab_Burge I Win
Cab_Burge I Win C Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 43,190 Bend,OR USA	I used that type, forged step dish pistons (AKA reverse dome), all the time in BB pump gas stroker motor builds with close chamber aluminum heads that end up with between 10.25 to 1 and 10.75 to one compression ratios with no bad results or complaints other than the customer cars spin the tires worse with the new motors in them Last edited by Cab_Burge; 01/19/24 03:36 AM. Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)

Re: "hate this piston design" [Re: Cab_Burge] #3206107 01/19/24 08:43 AM 01/19/24 08:43 AM
Joined: Oct 2005 Posts: 8,872 Ontario, Canada S Stanton Don't question me!
Stanton Don't question me! S Joined: Oct 2005 Posts: 8,872 Ontario, Canada	They are what they are. Be specific about what heads they'll work with. Find another buyer.

Re: "hate this piston design" [Re: mopar dave] #3206108 01/19/24 08:44 AM 01/19/24 08:44 AM
Joined: Sep 2018 Posts: 166 West Palm Beach, Florida C Craig J OP member
Craig J OP member C Joined: Sep 2018 Posts: 166 West Palm Beach, Florida	I believe they are an older 440source stroker kit piston. I have read that they are/were supplied by Icon

Re: "hate this piston design" [Re: Stanton] #3206109 01/19/24 08:51 AM 01/19/24 08:51 AM
Joined: May 2005 Posts: 1,989 Apollo, PA. B1MAXX top fuel
B1MAXX top fuel Joined: May 2005 Posts: 1,989 Apollo, PA.	Looking at it I bet he/they thought they were KB Hypereutectic.

Re: "hate this piston design" [Re: B1MAXX] #3206137 01/19/24 10:20 AM 01/19/24 10:20 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 10,719 North Dakota 6PakBee I Live Here
6PakBee I Live Here Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 10,719 North Dakota	Originally Posted by B1MAXX Looking at it I bet he/they thought they were KB Hypereutectic. "We live in a time when intelligent people are being silenced so that stupid people won't be offended".

Re: "hate this piston design" [Re: Craig J] #3206181 01/19/24 01:07 PM 01/19/24 01:07 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 31,037 Oregon A AndyF I Win
AndyF I Win A Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 31,037 Oregon	Could be an ICON piston. The step looks weird but just could be the picture. If the top of the step is close to zero deck at TDC then there shouldn't be an issue running those pistons with a modern head. If the top of the step is above the deck height then it is designed for an older open chamber head. I can't really tell from the picture what you have. ICON used to make step pistons for open chamber heads but they weren't a very popular design.

Re: "hate this piston design" [Re: Craig J] #3206187 01/19/24 01:26 PM 01/19/24 01:26 PM
Joined: Dec 2006 Posts: 2,112 Byron, NY W.I.N. Racing top fuel
W.I.N. Racing top fuel Joined: Dec 2006 Posts: 2,112 Byron, NY	My guess is they don't like the grooves and trough cut in the OD. The grooves (as noticed in the pic) seem to be carbon collectors. Also noticed in the pic it looks as if there is a sharp edge at the face/OD interface Last edited by W.I.N. Racing; 01/19/24 01:28 PM. '01 P1500, Blown/Inj BAE,/Veney ,Bruno/CS2,Dana 60 '01 Dodge 3500 S Cummins Auto, Fresh air kit, 4" Exhaust, '05 Dodge Magnum R/T - Too Much to list '60 Willys CJ5 '01 International LPX - Project,DT466, Allison '64 Plymouth Valiant, Inj 528 Hemi, 2spd

Re: "hate this piston design" [Re: Craig J] #3206197 01/19/24 01:44 PM 01/19/24 01:44 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 14,499 So. Burlington, Vt. F fast68plymouth I Live Here
fast68plymouth I Live Here F Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 14,499 So. Burlington, Vt.	Fundamentally, I like reverse dome/reverse step-dish type pistons…….. but I’m not loving the ring grooving on that particular set. It wouldn’t keep me from using them though. Icon shows the top ring land to be .350” from the top. Is that how far down those are? 68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads

Re: "hate this piston design" [Re: W.I.N. Racing] #3206256 01/19/24 04:13 PM 01/19/24 04:13 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 31,037 Oregon A AndyF I Win
AndyF I Win A Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 31,037 Oregon	Originally Posted by W.I.N. Racing My guess is they don't like the grooves and trough cut in the OD. The grooves (as noticed in the pic) seem to be carbon collectors. Also noticed in the pic it looks as if there is a sharp edge at the face/OD interface Could be. I wouldn't run those pistons either since the top edge is already eaten away. Looks like it was too thin and it just got eaten up by the combustion. Either that or the picture makes it look that way.

Re: "hate this piston design" [Re: AndyF] #3206277 01/19/24 05:25 PM 01/19/24 05:25 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 14,499 So. Burlington, Vt. F fast68plymouth I Live Here
fast68plymouth I Live Here F Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 14,499 So. Burlington, Vt.	There is def something “not good” going on at the top edge. Last edited by fast68plymouth; 01/19/24 05:26 PM. 68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads

Re: "hate this piston design" [Re: fast68plymouth] #3206285 01/19/24 05:42 PM 01/19/24 05:42 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 20,179 Park Forest, IL slantzilla Too Many Posts
slantzilla Too Many Posts Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 20,179 Park Forest, IL	What is the purpose of those grooves? "Everybody funny, now you funny too."

Re: "hate this piston design" [Re: slantzilla] #3206292 01/19/24 05:58 PM 01/19/24 05:58 PM
Joined: Jul 2004 Posts: 3,809 Arlington, Texas B bobby66 master
bobby66 master B Joined: Jul 2004 Posts: 3,809 Arlington, Texas	Obviously the best pistons ever.

Page 1 of 2

1

2

Moderated by Al_Alguire, Hotwheelsjr, moparts, not_a_charger, RangerDan440, tboomer

Hop To

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1