Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Observation for those that use Resin/Epoxy #3202670
01/06/24 10:44 AM
01/06/24 10:44 AM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,696
Bitopia
J
jcc Online content OP
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
jcc  Online Content OP
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
J

Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,696
Bitopia
I've used over 500 gals layup Resin since the early 60's in my non-manufacturing fiberglass projects. . I used to buy the resin in 55gal drums. In South Florida it had a limited shelf life that seemed to appear without warning about a year out to fail/gel unused.


Over a dozen years ago I started toying with Carbon Fiber/epoxy builds
The epoxies are nearly double the cost, and I have been buying them in much smaller quantities.
1 & 5 gal's to save money and concerned about the 1-year manufacturer quoted shelf life, Epoxy seems to offer more options and therefore requires even more flavors (viscosity, cure time, use temp, etc) and therefore needs more effective shelf life to eventually consume.

About 8 years ago I had the idea to refrigerate the epoxies until needed to extend shelf life. I dedicated a regular 24 Cu ft refrigerator for the task set to 43F (I am a Mopar guy). I am surprised today to report I am now starting on my 8th year on refrigerated epoxies and can detect no loss of performance.

Although I do few structural critical build-ups, and I have no way to measure mechanical properties of 8-year-old epoxy, it does seem to be money saver. I have for a number of years begun storing all resins/filler/Hardners the same way and am very pleased with the results. I need a bigger refrigerator.

I expect this year to run out of my oldest stored refrigerated epoxy so the "test" will end at 8 years.

Not sure Epoxy manufacturers are excited to share this outcome.

I am now wondering if paint storage might achieve the same success,


Reality check, that half the population is smarter then 50% of the people and it's a constantly contested fact.
Re: Observation for those that use Resin/Epoxy [Re: jcc] #3202675
01/06/24 11:17 AM
01/06/24 11:17 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,500
delivering your oil
nutso suave Offline
I Live Here
nutso suave  Offline
I Live Here

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,500
delivering your oil
Interesting, I live in the northwest and haven’t seen epoxy (west system) degrade like that over time. I am not familiar with the polyester resins out there, they may have different attributes. The amount of rain here (moisture) here is pretty high so we’ve had problems with opened epoxy containers changing color and then not reacting properly after extended storage. I’ll have to try the refrigerator!

Re: Observation for those that use Resin/Epoxy [Re: nutso suave] #3202684
01/06/24 11:55 AM
01/06/24 11:55 AM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,228
ILLINOIS
V
volaredon Offline
top fuel
volaredon  Offline
top fuel
V

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,228
ILLINOIS
I do the same thing with leftover por 15, definitely helps keep me from having to throw leftovers away and buy fresh for each job which might be 3-4 months apart

Re: Observation for those that use Resin/Epoxy [Re: volaredon] #3202833
01/06/24 08:13 PM
01/06/24 08:13 PM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 4,919
new berlin wisconsin
M
Mr T2U Offline
master
Mr T2U  Offline
master
M

Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 4,919
new berlin wisconsin
Epoxies, resins AND paint, including water base base coat, ALL have solvents in them.
basic science. refrigerating solvent products slows the evaporation rate of the solvents making them last longer.

it's a old bodyshop trick to refrigerate catalyzed paint. doing so almost always extends the cure rate allowing you to use it the next day.
most catalysts stop working at around 50*. this also works with almost any 2K product.


perception is 90% of reality
Re: Observation for those that use Resin/Epoxy [Re: Mr T2U] #3202856
01/06/24 09:45 PM
01/06/24 09:45 PM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,696
Bitopia
J
jcc Online content OP
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
jcc  Online Content OP
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
J

Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,696
Bitopia
So solvents escape thru sealed metal cans?


Reality check, that half the population is smarter then 50% of the people and it's a constantly contested fact.
Re: Observation for those that use Resin/Epoxy [Re: jcc] #3202869
01/06/24 11:47 PM
01/06/24 11:47 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 21,505
N.E. OHIO, USA
A12 Offline
Too Many Posts
A12  Offline
Too Many Posts

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 21,505
N.E. OHIO, USA
Originally Posted by jcc
So solvents escape thru sealed metal cans?


Apparently, maybe it would help a little more to store the metal containers and whatever containers upside down or the liquid around the lid or opening like wine bottles with the wine around the cork. Gas, fumes, and evaporation is much "thinner" than the liquid inside and has less possibility to permeate out through the smallest of path. Kind of an extra sealant.

Re: Observation for those that use Resin/Epoxy [Re: A12] #3202870
01/06/24 11:49 PM
01/06/24 11:49 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,347
Omaha Ne
T
TJP Offline
I Live Here
TJP  Offline
I Live Here
T

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,347
Omaha Ne
I have refrigerated catalyzed paint and had it last quite some time wink

Re: Observation for those that use Resin/Epoxy [Re: A12] #3202871
01/06/24 11:57 PM
01/06/24 11:57 PM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,696
Bitopia
J
jcc Online content OP
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
jcc  Online Content OP
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
J

Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,696
Bitopia
I do that often on long time storage, but have yet to find if it's worth it, but can't hurt


Reality check, that half the population is smarter then 50% of the people and it's a constantly contested fact.
Re: Observation for those that use Resin/Epoxy [Re: A12] #3202885
01/07/24 03:29 AM
01/07/24 03:29 AM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 4,919
new berlin wisconsin
M
Mr T2U Offline
master
Mr T2U  Offline
master
M

Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 4,919
new berlin wisconsin
Originally Posted by A12
Originally Posted by jcc
So solvents escape thru sealed metal cans?


Apparently, maybe it would help a little more to store the metal containers and whatever containers upside down or the liquid around the lid or opening like wine bottles with the wine around the cork. Gas, fumes, and evaporation is much "thinner" than the liquid inside and has less possibility to permeate out through the smallest of path. Kind of an extra sealant.



yes it can. especially one that has been opened and re-sealed. solvent fumes are extremely thin, much smaller than the product it is thinning out. and can escape thru microscopic cracks in the cans and containers that liquid can get thru.
do a test yourself. get access to a GOOD accurate digital scale. take a unopened paint can. weigh it. and record the weight to the 100th of a gram. open it, then reseal it. set it out in the sun for a 3 or 4 months. i guarantee it will weigh less.
heck even rattle can spray bombs loose pressure even though they have never been used. who hasn't picked up a can that worked perfectly fine 6 months ago that doesn't work now? or better yet a new never used one that doesn't spray 2 years after you bought it. why did that happen because it was supposed to be self sealing after releasing the trigger. and yet there isn't any pressure in the can anymore. where did this pressure go?

and YES storing solvent based products upside down will extensively reduce solvent escape. it still won't eliminate it though.

Last edited by Mr T2U; 01/07/24 03:43 AM.

perception is 90% of reality
Re: Observation for those that use Resin/Epoxy [Re: Mr T2U] #3202886
01/07/24 05:01 AM
01/07/24 05:01 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 21,505
N.E. OHIO, USA
A12 Offline
Too Many Posts
A12  Offline
Too Many Posts

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 21,505
N.E. OHIO, USA
up up

Re: Observation for those that use Resin/Epoxy [Re: Mr T2U] #3202917
01/07/24 10:44 AM
01/07/24 10:44 AM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,696
Bitopia
J
jcc Online content OP
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
jcc  Online Content OP
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
J

Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,696
Bitopia
Originally Posted by Mr T2U
Originally Posted by A12
Originally Posted by jcc
So solvents escape thru sealed metal cans?


Apparently, maybe it would help a little more to store the metal containers and whatever containers upside down or the liquid around the lid or opening like wine bottles with the wine around the cork. Gas, fumes, and evaporation is much "thinner" than the liquid inside and has less possibility to permeate out through the smallest of path. Kind of an extra sealant.



yes it can. especially one that has been opened and re-sealed. solvent fumes are extremely thin, much smaller than the product it is thinning out. and can escape thru microscopic cracks in the cans and containers that liquid can get thru.
do a test yourself. get access to a GOOD accurate digital scale. take a unopened paint can. weigh it. and record the weight to the 100th of a gram. open it, then reseal it. set it out in the sun for a 3 or 4 months. i guarantee it will weigh less.
heck even rattle can spray bombs loose pressure even though they have never been used. who hasn't picked up a can that worked perfectly fine 6 months ago that doesn't work now? or better yet a new never used one that doesn't spray 2 years after you bought it. why did that happen because it was supposed to be self sealing after releasing the trigger. and yet there isn't any pressure in the can anymore. where did this pressure go?

and YES storing solvent based products upside down will extensively reduce solvent escape. it still won't eliminate it though.


However, one potential flaw IMO with the can in the sun test, the heated solvent builds considerable pressure that a typical paint can is not intended to contain, the pressure distorts the lid, which might be the main cause of the loss of solvents./weight.


Reality check, that half the population is smarter then 50% of the people and it's a constantly contested fact.
Re: Observation for those that use Resin/Epoxy [Re: jcc] #3202919
01/07/24 10:50 AM
01/07/24 10:50 AM
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 5,804
ohio
R
ruderunner Offline
master
ruderunner  Offline
master
R

Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 5,804
ohio
You realize it's just an illustrative example right?

Change it up, put 2 cans in a cabinet, one upside down and measure both.


Angry white pureblood male
Re: Observation for those that use Resin/Epoxy [Re: ruderunner] #3202922
01/07/24 10:57 AM
01/07/24 10:57 AM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,696
Bitopia
J
jcc Online content OP
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
jcc  Online Content OP
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
J

Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,696
Bitopia
No, no mention was conveyed it was illustrative, it was shared as a real world test example of an argued expected result.
I did not contest result, I contest the test itself.


Reality check, that half the population is smarter then 50% of the people and it's a constantly contested fact.
Re: Observation for those that use Resin/Epoxy [Re: jcc] #3202945
01/07/24 11:50 AM
01/07/24 11:50 AM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 19,386
north of coder
moparx Offline
"Butt Crack Bob"
moparx  Offline
"Butt Crack Bob"

Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 19,386
north of coder
does this include refrigerating bondo and it's catalyst ?
beer

Re: Observation for those that use Resin/Epoxy [Re: moparx] #3202956
01/07/24 12:22 PM
01/07/24 12:22 PM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,696
Bitopia
J
jcc Online content OP
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
jcc  Online Content OP
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
J

Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,696
Bitopia
Yes, but I have no definitive results to indicate it also has extends life by storing at reduced temps, and since buying it in quantity has little reward, as I only buy what is needed for the project at hand, unlike epoxy purchases. My guess however, it adds shelf life.


Reality check, that half the population is smarter then 50% of the people and it's a constantly contested fact.
Re: Observation for those that use Resin/Epoxy [Re: jcc] #3203199
01/08/24 01:25 PM
01/08/24 01:25 PM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 276
Bennett, Colorado
Charger69RT8 Offline
enthusiast
Charger69RT8  Offline
enthusiast

Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 276
Bennett, Colorado
A number of years ago while working at an air bag inflator manufacturing facility, I went through training for the leak detection systems in use. The inflators were gas filled to about 7,500 PSI. The gas charge included helium to serve as the detection element for leaks. What I learned in the training was that EVERYTHING leaks. Including multi inch thick glass. The only thing that changes is the leak rate. And as noted above with the atom / particle size compared to the porosity of the container. And note, there is no such thing as zero porosity. It was a perspective light bulb for me when I learned this.


2012 Challenger SRT
2012 Charger SXT AWD
69 Charger R/T
78 Chrysler New Yorker 440CI
89 Dodge Daytona ES 2.5L Turbo
99 Ram 2500 4X4 5.9L6
Re: Observation for those that use Resin/Epoxy [Re: volaredon] #3203202
01/08/24 01:40 PM
01/08/24 01:40 PM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 946
Carlisle, PA
C
cudaboy340 Offline
super stock
cudaboy340  Offline
super stock
C

Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 946
Carlisle, PA
Originally Posted by volaredon
I do the same thing with leftover por 15, definitely helps keep me from having to throw leftovers away and buy fresh for each job which might be 3-4 months apart


I'm no chemist, but I recall POR-15 used to claim their paint was "cured" by moisture. If that's true, then putting it in a refrigerator would slow the curing process due to the lower humidity rather than the lower temperature. Regardless, if it works, it works. And I recall trying that when I had a "shop fridge" and I believe it DID last longer. But I swear that stuff has a mind of its own - when it wants to cure, it cures and there's nothing we can do about it shruggy laugh2

Ed B

Re: Observation for those that use Resin/Epoxy [Re: cudaboy340] #3203213
01/08/24 03:01 PM
01/08/24 03:01 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,714
Moved to N.E. Tennessee
GomangoCuda Offline
master
GomangoCuda  Offline
master

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,714
Moved to N.E. Tennessee
The tooling shop I worked in had a refrigerator just for super glue and locktite. Usually had someone's lunch in it as well.


In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is.
Re: Observation for those that use Resin/Epoxy [Re: Charger69RT8] #3203217
01/08/24 03:19 PM
01/08/24 03:19 PM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,696
Bitopia
J
jcc Online content OP
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
jcc  Online Content OP
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
J

Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,696
Bitopia
Originally Posted by Charger69RT8
A number of years ago while working at an air bag inflator manufacturing facility, I went through training for the leak detection systems in use. The inflators were gas filled to about 7,500 PSI. The gas charge included helium to serve as the detection element for leaks. What I learned in the training was that EVERYTHING leaks. Including multi inch thick glass. The only thing that changes is the leak rate. And as noted above with the atom / particle size compared to the porosity of the container. And note, there is no such thing as zero porosity. It was a perspective light bulb for me when I learned this.

And Temp changes that rate, which was the point here I believe.


Reality check, that half the population is smarter then 50% of the people and it's a constantly contested fact.






Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1