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Hard starting and slow shut off #3201942
01/03/24 02:11 PM
01/03/24 02:11 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
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South Park, Pa.
68LAR Offline OP
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I think I'm confused. Lately, I've noticed that my engine on start up, will spin freely, but not fire quickly. On shut down, I turn the key off and the engine will free wheel for a second before coming to a complete stop. It's not the "turn the key on and it makes a half a rotation and fires then turn the key off and engine stops instantly" kind of thing. This has been going on this past year. I want to address it over the winter. I've tried adjusting the advance curve, adjusting the idle mixture screws, adjusting the fuel pressure up and down. Ignition is a Digital MSD 6AL. Distributor is a Mallory with Pertronix conversion kit that I've used for years with no issues. The kit is new. Replaced it last spring and ran it all last year. Timing is all out by 1500 rpm at 35*. Initial is at 13*. Plugs 3924's gapped at .045". Carb is a 1050AN Quickfuel. with 84P-92S jets. air bleeds 73/31. I can't put my finger on when this all started, sorry. Any suggestions????


4 speed street legal. Best time 10.99 @ 124 mph on 93 octane pump gas @ 3926# total weight
Re: Hard starting and slow shut off [Re: 68LAR] #3201961
01/03/24 03:28 PM
01/03/24 03:28 PM
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Loudoun County, VA
Brad_Haak Offline
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Sounds like you've checked the basic things that I would have

Any chance the quality of the local pump fuel is getting worse?


2021 Challenger 6.4L Scat Pack 1320
100% stock: 1.680, 11.894 at 113.75 (DA 175 ft)
weight reduction, wheels, tires, Hellcat air box: 1.661, 11.686 at 115.97 (DA 710 ft)

1973 Challenger 452 ci street/strip [2008]
pump gas, DOT radials: 1.454, 10.523 at 126.44 (DA 514 ft)
Re: Hard starting and slow shut off [Re: 68LAR] #3201983
01/03/24 04:53 PM
01/03/24 04:53 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,152
Bend,OR USA
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Some of the later digital MSD race boxes, not sure about the one your using now, won't fire the coil until the 2nd revolution to help the race motors get several crankshaft revolutions on those motors so they won't kick back and break the starters. work scope twocents


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Hard starting and slow shut off [Re: Cab_Burge] #3201992
01/03/24 06:05 PM
01/03/24 06:05 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 20,759
A collage of whims
topside Offline
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Slow to light: how good/clean/tight are the Grounds ?
I've had very few engines that would light off immediately unless they were already warmed up.
Continuing to spin: ya got me on that one, as there's nothing in the description that indicates dieseling.

Y'all have probably forgotten more than I know...

Re: Hard starting and slow shut off [Re: topside] #3202194
01/04/24 01:05 PM
01/04/24 01:05 PM
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Posts: 2,107
Byron, NY
W.I.N. Racing Offline
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Originally Posted by topside
Slow to light: how good/clean/tight are the Grounds ?

iagree


'01 P1500, Blown/Inj BAE,/Veney ,Bruno/CS2,Dana 60
'01 Dodge 3500 S Cummins Auto, Fresh air kit, 4" Exhaust,
'05 Dodge Magnum R/T - Too Much to list
'60 Willys CJ5
'01 International LPX - Project,DT466, Allison
'64 Plymouth Valiant, Inj 528 Hemi, 2spd
Re: Hard starting and slow shut off [Re: W.I.N. Racing] #3202213
01/04/24 02:07 PM
01/04/24 02:07 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 4,013
South Park, Pa.
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Originally Posted by W.I.N. Racing
Originally Posted by topside
Slow to light: how good/clean/tight are the Grounds ?

iagree

I have grounds from frame to block. Grounds from firewall to block. Battery to frame. You might say that I have grounds to grounds😂😂


4 speed street legal. Best time 10.99 @ 124 mph on 93 octane pump gas @ 3926# total weight
Re: Hard starting and slow shut off [Re: topside] #3202217
01/04/24 02:10 PM
01/04/24 02:10 PM
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South Park, Pa.
68LAR Offline OP
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Originally Posted by topside
Slow to light: how good/clean/tight are the Grounds ?
I've had very few engines that would light off immediately unless they were already warmed up.
Continuing to spin: ya got me on that one, as there's nothing in the description that indicates dieseling.

Y'all have probably forgotten more than I know...

Not dieseling. Just not an instant shut down. Not a run on either. Just not an instant shut down.


4 speed street legal. Best time 10.99 @ 124 mph on 93 octane pump gas @ 3926# total weight
Re: Hard starting and slow shut off [Re: 68LAR] #3202222
01/04/24 03:31 PM
01/04/24 03:31 PM
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 712
Lake Villa Il
INTMD8 Offline
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Maybe ignition switch failing? I would monitor ignition power vs key position.


69 Charger. 438ci Gen2 hemi. Flex fuel. Holley HP efi. 650rwhp @7250 510rwtq @5700
Re: Hard starting and slow shut off [Re: 68LAR] #3202223
01/04/24 03:39 PM
01/04/24 03:39 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 18,414
UPPER MICHIGAN, MARQUETTE COUN...
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Are you running electric fans?

Re: Hard starting and slow shut off [Re: INTMD8] #3202225
01/04/24 03:48 PM
01/04/24 03:48 PM
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South Park, Pa.
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Originally Posted by INTMD8
Maybe ignition switch failing? I would monitor ignition power vs key position.

Brand new ignition switch. No electric fans. Just a Jag clutch fan.


4 speed street legal. Best time 10.99 @ 124 mph on 93 octane pump gas @ 3926# total weight
Re: Hard starting and slow shut off [Re: 68LAR] #3202230
01/04/24 04:15 PM
01/04/24 04:15 PM
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 712
Lake Villa Il
INTMD8 Offline
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So same before and after the new switch? Just saying I would check and confirm because new isn't always good.


69 Charger. 438ci Gen2 hemi. Flex fuel. Holley HP efi. 650rwhp @7250 510rwtq @5700
Re: Hard starting and slow shut off [Re: INTMD8] #3202236
01/04/24 04:46 PM
01/04/24 04:46 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 4,013
South Park, Pa.
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Originally Posted by INTMD8
So same before and after the new switch? Just saying I would check and confirm because new isn't always good.

Was having the same issues and others before changing the ignition switch. The new switch didn’t change anything but my piece of mind that the switch wasn’t an issue. The engine eventually starts and runs strong.


4 speed street legal. Best time 10.99 @ 124 mph on 93 octane pump gas @ 3926# total weight
Re: Hard starting and slow shut off [Re: 68LAR] #3202323
01/04/24 10:51 PM
01/04/24 10:51 PM
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Rogue River, OR
Jeremiah Offline
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A few things I would check that have not been mentioned:

1) I would check the i tegrity of the floars in your carburetor. It would not hurt to change the needle&seat assemblies as a maintenance item.

2) I would 2x check for a vacuum leak. Verify the base plate to main body screws are tight, etc. Not all vacuum leaks come from the manifold.


My guess is this is not ignition related. One way to peoce that is to ensure there is not output from the MSD is switched off. You could test that with the white points trigger wire and a spark plug plugged into the coil wire.



Re: Hard starting and slow shut off [Re: Jeremiah] #3202372
01/05/24 09:31 AM
01/05/24 09:31 AM
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South Park, Pa.
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Originally Posted by Jeremiah
A few things I would check that have not been mentioned:

1) I would check the i tegrity of the floars in your carburetor. It would not hurt to change the needle&seat assemblies as a maintenance item.

2) I would 2x check for a vacuum leak. Verify the base plate to main body screws are tight, etc. Not all vacuum leaks come from the manifold.


My guess is this is not ignition related. One way to peoce that is to ensure there is not output from the MSD is switched off. You could test that with the white points trigger wire and a spark plug plugged into the coil wire.


The floats are good. The float level is steady as a rock. The MSD is something that I haven't thought of. If I recall, with my old 6AL I didn't have this problem. Maybe explain in detail your recommendation for checking it.
No vacuum leaks. I checked that.


4 speed street legal. Best time 10.99 @ 124 mph on 93 octane pump gas @ 3926# total weight
Re: Hard starting and slow shut off [Re: 68LAR] #3202500
01/05/24 03:44 PM
01/05/24 03:44 PM
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Posts: 19,383
north of coder
moparx Offline
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stick or automatic ?
if automatic, how does it shut off in gear [third or drive] ?
i know you said the MSD distributor works good, but could the weights be sticking a little in just one spot ?
beer

Re: Hard starting and slow shut off [Re: moparx] #3202553
01/05/24 06:40 PM
01/05/24 06:40 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 4,013
South Park, Pa.
68LAR Offline OP
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Originally Posted by moparx
stick or automatic ?
if automatic, how does it shut off in gear [third or drive] ?
i know you said the MSD distributor works good, but could the weights be sticking a little in just one spot ?
beer

Stick car. I’ve bin thru the distributor, everything is free no sticking weights or anything else.
I’m thinking maybe to lower my idle speed. It’s at 950 now. Not sure if that will work cause if I remember, the engine had a hard time idling anything lower than that.


4 speed street legal. Best time 10.99 @ 124 mph on 93 octane pump gas @ 3926# total weight
Re: Hard starting and slow shut off [Re: 68LAR] #3202572
01/05/24 08:32 PM
01/05/24 08:32 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
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Hmmm...you might find that closing the butterflies works for the shut-off.
Heck, might even help the startup.

Re: Hard starting and slow shut off [Re: topside] #3207866
01/24/24 05:17 PM
01/24/24 05:17 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 4,013
South Park, Pa.
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Okay, an update!! As far as my issues, it was something stupid. Low battery voltage!!!! I also closed the idle mixture screws a bit. From 1 turn to 3/4 turn out. Everything good again. Thanks for all the input. 👍


4 speed street legal. Best time 10.99 @ 124 mph on 93 octane pump gas @ 3926# total weight






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