Hellcat Market Value
#3198737
12/19/23 09:29 PM
12/19/23 09:29 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 16,162 Mesa, Arizona
dart4forte
OP
I Live Here
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OP
I Live Here
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 16,162
Mesa, Arizona
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Just curious, anyone following the market in terms of the Challenger/Charger especially the Hellcats. Figured the Demons are in a world all its own. I know the crazy auction prices are going to be there but that’s not a true picture of the market. Given that these cars are not being built anymore I would imagine the value is going to keep going up.
“So if it’s on the internet it must be true”
Abe Lincoln
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Re: Hellcat Market Value
[Re: dart4forte]
#3198769
12/19/23 10:54 PM
12/19/23 10:54 PM
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,861 Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario, Can...
moparmike1
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,861
Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario, Can...
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My two cents...
This question will be answered in about 12 months. Production is done at the end of this month and once dealers have sold their Hellcats in 2024, then the market will answer your question. I think they'll always have that "allure" of being the last of a breed.
As far as the non-Hellcat Chargers/Challengers, they may maintain their value a bit more than the usual depreciation, just because of their association with their higher-end models.
As far as the Demon variants, I don't see their value diminishing. Will their prices keep escalating like they have been? I wouldn't think so but, who knows?
Full disclosure, I have a 2016 Hellcat. It's not an investment to me, I bought it before the whole last-call frenzy started up.
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Re: Hellcat Market Value
[Re: Kidsixpack]
#3198804
12/20/23 08:19 AM
12/20/23 08:19 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,480 So Cal
autoxcuda
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,480
So Cal
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With the Redeye, Hellcat widebodies, Demon, 170's, etc out there....
Could the early slab-sided Hellcats loose attention and depreciate at a somewhat normal rate?
I just popped up two 2016 Hellcat's from dealers for $48K with 27K miles. From what I looked up, the base price was $65,190 on those originally.
Last edited by autoxcuda; 12/20/23 08:25 AM.
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Re: Hellcat Market Value
[Re: autoxcuda]
#3198805
12/20/23 08:36 AM
12/20/23 08:36 AM
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 5,482 Michigan
oldjonny
Don't argue with me.
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Don't argue with me.
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 5,482
Michigan
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Right now, market is softening. Brand new '23 sold on BaT for $6600 LESS than MSRP. Rumor is that beginning of the year there will be higher incentives (right now, narrow bodies here are $2K off sticker). Much depends on what happens in 2024.
Never, ever argue with an IDIOT. They will drag you to their level and then beat you with their years of experience
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Re: Hellcat Market Value
[Re: Dart 500]
#3199182
12/21/23 05:00 PM
12/21/23 05:00 PM
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 5,482 Michigan
oldjonny
Don't argue with me.
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Don't argue with me.
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 5,482
Michigan
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Today was the last day of Challenger/Charger build, RIP muscle! I think in the next couple of years from now when people finally realize they WILL have to buy a new EV the price of these will go through the roof... The way EV sales are currently imploding I bet they reverse a lot of the silly decisions they made over the last couple years, would not be surprised at all if they are working on an updated hemi either. Much depends on 2024 and what we end up with politically. Ford, GM and to some extent Stelantis NEED the government to continue with mandates or they are screwed. They are in so deep with their EV 'investments' that reversing will be tough.
Never, ever argue with an IDIOT. They will drag you to their level and then beat you with their years of experience
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Re: Hellcat Market Value
[Re: oldjonny]
#3199208
12/21/23 06:46 PM
12/21/23 06:46 PM
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Joined: Feb 2022
Posts: 1,248 Nor here, Nor there
Dart 500
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Feb 2022
Posts: 1,248
Nor here, Nor there
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Today was the last day of Challenger/Charger build, RIP muscle! I think in the next couple of years from now when people finally realize they WILL have to buy a new EV the price of these will go through the roof... The way EV sales are currently imploding I bet they reverse a lot of the silly decisions they made over the last couple years, would not be surprised at all if they are working on an updated hemi either. Much depends on 2024 and what we end up with politically. Ford, GM and to some extent Stelantis NEED the government to continue with mandates or they are screwed. They are in so deep with their EV 'investments' that reversing will be tough. The new charger is set up to be both electric and gas powered, I predict 20:1 sales between gas to EV and the EV model being quietly discontinued. The next leaders of NA are both oil guys, all I'll say, and its coming very soon.
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Re: Hellcat Market Value
[Re: oldjonny]
#3199270
12/21/23 10:15 PM
12/21/23 10:15 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,728 Portage,michigan
B3422W5
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,728
Portage,michigan
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Today was the last day of Challenger/Charger build, RIP muscle! I think in the next couple of years from now when people finally realize they WILL have to buy a new EV the price of these will go through the roof... The way EV sales are currently imploding I bet they reverse a lot of the silly decisions they made over the last couple years, would not be surprised at all if they are working on an updated hemi either. Much depends on 2024 and what we end up with politically. Ford, GM and to some extent Stelantis NEED the government to continue with mandates or they are screwed. They are in so deep with their EV 'investments' that reversing will be tough. Actually, dealers are cutting and running instead of having to deal with Ev inventory rotting on lots that nobody wants. General Motors (GM) has bought out about half of its 2,000 Buick dealers nationwide, based on their decision to not sell electric vehicles, according to a company spokesman Wednesday. Dealers who are taking the buyout would give up the Buick franchise and no longer sell the brand, he said. The dealer can continue to sell other GM models, such as Chevrolet or GMC, that often account for a higher percentage of sales.
69 Dart GTS A4 Silver All steel, flat factory hood, 3360race weight 418 BPE factory replacement headed stroker, 565 lift solid cam Best so far, low 10.30’s 1/4 1.41 best 60 foot 6.56 at 104.17
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Re: Hellcat Market Value
[Re: dart4forte]
#3199271
12/21/23 10:25 PM
12/21/23 10:25 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,728 Portage,michigan
B3422W5
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,728
Portage,michigan
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Just curious, anyone following the market in terms of the Challenger/Charger especially the Hellcats. Figured the Demons are in a world all its own. I know the crazy auction prices are going to be there but that’s not a true picture of the market. Given that these cars are not being built anymore I would imagine the value is going to keep going up. Dealer auctions are the true market indicator. That is where the majority of cars are bought and sold, every day, every year. I say this as a licensed dealer with 34 years in the business who owns my own store. They have softened up a bit Below is a dealer Manheim market report of 2016 Hellcats that have sold nationally( and where) in the last 30-45 days You will see numbers like 4.2, 4.5, 3.7 etc, etc.These are condition reports. 5.0 is perfect, 4.0 is clean for the year, 3.0 is average, etc Add to these prices auction fees both buyer and seller pay, numbers like these 700 bucks each way, give or take….. As you can see, miles matter..a bunch..on these things 8/23 $44,500 18,405 4.5 8G/A Blue Regular West Coast Nevada 12/4/23 $45,700 22,972 4.6 8CY/A Orange Regular West Coast San Francisco Bay 11/29/23 $38,500 46,227 4.2 8G/A Red Regular West Coast Seattle 11/22/23 $38,500 34,898 4.9 8CY/M Blue Regular Southwest Omaha 11/15/23 $46,300 11,579 4.6 8G/6 Orange Regular Northeast Pittsburgh 11/10/23 $38,000 37,533 3.3 8G/A Blue Regular Southeast Fort Lauderdale 11/10/23 $33,500 54,299 2.7 8G/6 Orange Lease West Coast California
Last edited by B3422W5; 12/21/23 10:29 PM.
69 Dart GTS A4 Silver All steel, flat factory hood, 3360race weight 418 BPE factory replacement headed stroker, 565 lift solid cam Best so far, low 10.30’s 1/4 1.41 best 60 foot 6.56 at 104.17
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Re: Hellcat Market Value
[Re: B3422W5]
#3199297
12/22/23 12:06 AM
12/22/23 12:06 AM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,584 Motor City
6PKRTSE
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,584
Motor City
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Sad day for sure. I have been watching the market since they were new. Someday I would like to find a nice B5 blue H.C. with no sunroof.
1963 Belvedere 440 Max Wedge Tribute 1970 Charger R/T S.E. 440 Six Pack 1970 Challenger R/T, 528 Hemi 1970 Charger 500 S.E. 440 4 BBL 1970 Plymouth Road Runner 383 1974 Chrysler New Yorker 440 1996 2500 RAM 488 V-10 4X4 2004 3500 Dually Cummins 4x4 2012 Challenger R/T Classic.
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Re: Hellcat Market Value
[Re: B3422W5]
#3199307
12/22/23 02:03 AM
12/22/23 02:03 AM
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Joined: Feb 2022
Posts: 1,248 Nor here, Nor there
Dart 500
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Feb 2022
Posts: 1,248
Nor here, Nor there
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Today was the last day of Challenger/Charger build, RIP muscle! I think in the next couple of years from now when people finally realize they WILL have to buy a new EV the price of these will go through the roof... The way EV sales are currently imploding I bet they reverse a lot of the silly decisions they made over the last couple years, would not be surprised at all if they are working on an updated hemi either. Much depends on 2024 and what we end up with politically. Ford, GM and to some extent Stelantis NEED the government to continue with mandates or they are screwed. They are in so deep with their EV 'investments' that reversing will be tough. Actually, dealers are cutting and running instead of having to deal with Ev inventory rotting on lots that nobody wants. General Motors (GM) has bought out about half of its 2,000 Buick dealers nationwide, based on their decision to not sell electric vehicles, according to a company spokesman Wednesday. Dealers who are taking the buyout would give up the Buick franchise and no longer sell the brand, he said. The dealer can continue to sell other GM models, such as Chevrolet or GMC, that often account for a higher percentage of sales. This is true, I had 4-5 long standing dealership clients and they all either retired or sold their dealerships in just the past few years, I've had to switch to B2B to stay in business (its actually better, so no biggie) but the old school dealer guys are bailing at a massive pace
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Re: Hellcat Market Value
[Re: 6PKRTSE]
#3199325
12/22/23 08:45 AM
12/22/23 08:45 AM
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 5,482 Michigan
oldjonny
Don't argue with me.
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Don't argue with me.
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 5,482
Michigan
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Sad day for sure. I have been watching the market since they were new. Someday I would like to find a nice B5 blue H.C. with no sunroof.
Never, ever argue with an IDIOT. They will drag you to their level and then beat you with their years of experience
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Re: Hellcat Market Value
[Re: B3422W5]
#3199353
12/22/23 10:28 AM
12/22/23 10:28 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,284 Benton, IL.
DaveRS23
Special needs idiot
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Special needs idiot
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,284
Benton, IL.
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Manheim auctions are wholesale (dealer) auctions and the MMR reflects wholesale values. There are other evaluators that indicate retail values. One thing that can be gleaned from both evaluations are trends if you are following a particular vehicle like the Hellcats.
Lots of things go into auction prices and the initial decision to place the unit there. But the choice pieces do not typically go to a wholesale auction. Why would a dealer take wholesale money, less fees and transportation, for a unit that is truly retail ready? There is always a reason that an apparently good retail piece goes to a wholesale auction. A 1 (or maybe 2) owner Hellcat with no accident history would be much more desirable than the same unit with half a dozen owners or with an accident report. Or had significant warranty issues. The devil is in the details.
MMR is a very good indicator of wholesale pricing, but misses the retail money on solid, clean units unless the vehicle is in really, really limited supply. Early on, Hellcats brought retail plus at Manheim when they couldn't be found otherwise and 1 or 2 year old Hellcats would often have several prior owners (flippers) in short order. It was not uncommon to see Hellcats with 6 or 7 prior owners at Manheim by the time they were 2 years old. But those days are long gone.
I will just bet that if you look at the background of the Hellcats at the Manheim wholesale auctions today, you will find the reason they are there, rather than on a dealer's lot. Or in an owner's garage.
I will tell you this; I would be very interested in a one (or 2) owner, accident free Hellcat with 34k for $38k. But it is highly unlikely that is what was sold at Manheim.
Master, again and still
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Re: Hellcat Market Value
[Re: DaveRS23]
#3199403
12/22/23 12:51 PM
12/22/23 12:51 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,728 Portage,michigan
B3422W5
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,728
Portage,michigan
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Manheim auctions are wholesale (dealer) auctions and the MMR reflects wholesale values. There are other evaluators that indicate retail values. One thing that can be gleaned from both evaluations are trends if you are following a particular vehicle like the Hellcats.
Lots of things go into auction prices and the initial decision to place the unit there. But the choice pieces do not typically go to a wholesale auction. Why would a dealer take wholesale money, less fees and transportation, for a unit that is truly retail ready? There is always a reason that an apparently good retail piece goes to a wholesale auction. A 1 (or maybe 2) owner Hellcat with no accident history would be much more desirable than the same unit with half a dozen owners or with an accident report. Or had significant warranty issues. The devil is in the details.
MMR is a very good indicator of wholesale pricing, but misses the retail money on solid, clean units unless the vehicle is in really, really limited supply. Early on, Hellcats brought retail plus at Manheim when they couldn't be found otherwise and 1 or 2 year old Hellcats would often have several prior owners (flippers) in short order. It was not uncommon to see Hellcats with 6 or 7 prior owners at Manheim by the time they were 2 years old. But those days are long gone.
I will just bet that if you look at the background of the Hellcats at the Manheim wholesale auctions today, you will find the reason they are there, rather than on a dealer's lot. Or in an owner's garage.
I will tell you this; I would be very interested in a one (or 2) owner, accident free Hellcat with 34k for $38k. But it is highly unlikely that is what was sold at Manheim. Buy a lot of cars there. You would be surprised what really nice stuff does there. And guys know if something is very nice or not. Really nice stuff does ALL the money… Many dealers are on a 90 day turn cycle. If it sits on a lot 90 days and doesn’t sell, off to the auction it goes. Many such units have obviously already been fully serviced and are 100% ready to go. Nice stuff. Couple years ago I was looking for a Ram 2500 crew cab 4 by 4 to pull my race car. Found a nice 90k mile 2009 hemi unit, one owner, nice truck. Slt crew cab, maroon in color. I booked it out, retail was like 16k on it at the time. Wife stays home on Fri mornings and bids on cars I give her the figures on I have previously looked into and booked out. I told her I really want that truck, go to 14k on it, time I pay auction fees and transport I would have 15 in it, and still have to service it. But I wanted it. Well….It did 22,000 dollars “ wholesale” 6 grand over retail. That was admittedly an outlier, but I see stuff do over retail all the time. Guys often bring stuff to the sale to “ retail” it. They get top dollar, sometimes just a trade in they clean up and flip, with no service done on it. We specialize in Subaru’s. Can’t count the times I get one back here I have over retail in, especially really nice older stuff with low miles. And we do just fine on such stuff. Can’t make a blanket statement about stuff. Every unit stands( or doesn’t stand) on its own merits Watched a 2021 Hellcat at Manheim, PA with 3700 miles on it bust 75k couple weeks ago.
69 Dart GTS A4 Silver All steel, flat factory hood, 3360race weight 418 BPE factory replacement headed stroker, 565 lift solid cam Best so far, low 10.30’s 1/4 1.41 best 60 foot 6.56 at 104.17
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Re: Hellcat Market Value
[Re: B3422W5]
#3199426
12/22/23 02:57 PM
12/22/23 02:57 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,284 Benton, IL.
DaveRS23
Special needs idiot
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Special needs idiot
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,284
Benton, IL.
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Manheim auctions are wholesale (dealer) auctions and the MMR reflects wholesale values. There are other evaluators that indicate retail values. One thing that can be gleaned from both evaluations are trends if you are following a particular vehicle like the Hellcats.
Lots of things go into auction prices and the initial decision to place the unit there. But the choice pieces do not typically go to a wholesale auction. Why would a dealer take wholesale money, less fees and transportation, for a unit that is truly retail ready? There is always a reason that an apparently good retail piece goes to a wholesale auction. A 1 (or maybe 2) owner Hellcat with no accident history would be much more desirable than the same unit with half a dozen owners or with an accident report. Or had significant warranty issues. The devil is in the details.
MMR is a very good indicator of wholesale pricing, but misses the retail money on solid, clean units unless the vehicle is in really, really limited supply. Early on, Hellcats brought retail plus at Manheim when they couldn't be found otherwise and 1 or 2 year old Hellcats would often have several prior owners (flippers) in short order. It was not uncommon to see Hellcats with 6 or 7 prior owners at Manheim by the time they were 2 years old. But those days are long gone.
I will just bet that if you look at the background of the Hellcats at the Manheim wholesale auctions today, you will find the reason they are there, rather than on a dealer's lot. Or in an owner's garage.
I will tell you this; I would be very interested in a one (or 2) owner, accident free Hellcat with 34k for $38k. But it is highly unlikely that is what was sold at Manheim. Can’t make a blanket statement about stuff. Every unit stands( or doesn’t stand) on its own merits That I agree with. Which is why I responded to your conclusion in your original post.
Master, again and still
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Re: Hellcat Market Value
[Re: B3422W5]
#3199429
12/22/23 03:01 PM
12/22/23 03:01 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,526 Omaha Ne
TJP
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,526
Omaha Ne
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