Re: Intake porting?
[Re: Streetwize]
#3193972
11/28/23 05:30 PM
11/28/23 05:30 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,274 A gulag near you.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,274
A gulag near you.
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Hughes seems to still be doing it. That seems a reasonably priced initial step. S/F...Ken M I had Hughes do their deep port match to several intakes years ago. Have one,sold one (dummy),and one was on my Polara when I sold it 3 years ago (bigger dummy). Last time I talked to Hughes their machinist had quit. I figure picking up 20 or 30 cfm should help everywhere.Maybe that is unrealistic?? I have two or three I wouldn't mind doing but money doesn't grow on any trees in my yard. The trick flow/victor may have been the smart move. It could be a test for later on switching to one after the M1 for any gains. Bobby,I wish I had kept the Indy 440-2D I sold you years ago.It would be interesting to see how it compares. I appreciate the knowledge guys. I still have the 440-2D , I spent about 80% of the time porting the lower plenum, I'm not sure you ever noticed but there was actually a casting flaw (a void "hole" slightly larger than the diameter of a Sharpie) deep inside (I think?) the #6 roof through to the #8 floor but I epoxied it up when I ported it. You are free to borrow it back if you want to try it but of course I'd like to have it back for a future build. What size motor and what compression and head are you running? I had one like that , I thought it was a design feature
Mainstream Media is the new Pravda
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Re: Intake porting?
[Re: JohnRR]
#3193994
11/28/23 07:30 PM
11/28/23 07:30 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,163 Melbourne , Australia
LA360
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,163
Melbourne , Australia
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For a decent shop to entirely port your intake, you'd be up for $800-1500. It's not uncommon to spend 30-40 hours fully porting an intake, hence why a lot of head porters just don't do it anymore.
I bought all the tools to do it myself. Buying all the burrs, sand rolls etc all adds up. I do an OK job, but I have seen some real home ported disasters as well.
How much are you looking to spend? As has already been mentioned, a different intake might be a better investment in some cases.
Alan Jones
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Re: Intake porting?
[Re: AndyF]
#3194042
11/28/23 10:31 PM
11/28/23 10:31 PM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,632 Motor City
6PKRTSE
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,632
Motor City
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I have been doing my own heads and intakes for years. Never done any before and after dyno comparisons but my junk makes good power for what it is.
1963 Belvedere 440 Max Wedge Tribute 1970 Charger R/T S.E. 440 Six Pack 1970 Challenger R/T, 528 Hemi 1970 Charger 500 S.E. 440 4 BBL 1970 Plymouth Road Runner 383 1974 Chrysler New Yorker 440 1996 2500 RAM 488 V-10 4X4 2004 3500 Dually Cummins 4x4 2012 Challenger R/T Classic.
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Re: Intake porting?
[Re: Streetwize]
#3194046
11/28/23 11:04 PM
11/28/23 11:04 PM
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,165 Central NC
gch
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,165
Central NC
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Hughes seems to still be doing it. That seems a reasonably priced initial step. S/F...Ken M I had Hughes do their deep port match to several intakes years ago. Have one,sold one (dummy),and one was on my Polara when I sold it 3 years ago (bigger dummy). Last time I talked to Hughes their machinist had quit. I figure picking up 20 or 30 cfm should help everywhere.Maybe that is unrealistic?? I have two or three I wouldn't mind doing but money doesn't grow on any trees in my yard. The trick flow/victor may have been the smart move. It could be a test for later on switching to one after the M1 for any gains. Bobby,I wish I had kept the Indy 440-2D I sold you years ago.It would be interesting to see how it compares. I appreciate the knowledge guys. I still have the 440-2D , I spent about 80% of the time porting the lower plenum, I'm not sure you ever noticed but there was actually a casting flaw (a void "hole" slightly larger than the diameter of a Sharpie) deep inside (I think?) the #6 roof through to the #8 floor but I epoxied it up when I ported it. You are free to borrow it back if you want to try it but of course I'd like to have it back for a future build. What size motor and what compression and head are you running? Motor will be .030 or .040 over 440 block with a 4.25 crank. Heads will be cnc ported edelbrock rpm. Have everything but pistons and rods. Hope to put it all together in the spring. Pump gas so maybe 10.5-1 or so. Building for max torque and hp will be what it is. Just thinking out loud as far as the intake porting goes. Likely run it as is and then test intakes after it is in the car.Maybe on the dyno. Buddy has a trick flow intake I could borrow I'm sure. Not a race car but should be a fun street car in a 72 Duster.
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Re: Intake porting?
[Re: B1MAXX]
#3194124
11/29/23 11:18 AM
11/29/23 11:18 AM
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Joined: Dec 2021
Posts: 1,319 Loudoun County, VA
Brad_Haak
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Dec 2021
Posts: 1,319
Loudoun County, VA
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Has anyone back to backed a 2000$ intake port job ? I don't think it would be cost effective. I'd expect that Andy has before & after dyno data for the Wilson intakes he's used I've back-to-back tested my own intake porting on both engine dyno and at the track, but I don't do $2K port jobs Re $2K port jobs being cost effective, I think that falls into the ever-expanding category of "it depends..."
2021 Challenger 6.4L Scat Pack 1320 100% stock: 1.680, 11.894 at 113.75 (DA 175 ft) weight reduction, wheels, tires, Hellcat air box: 1.661, 11.686 at 115.97 (DA 710 ft)
1973 Challenger 452 ci street/strip [2008] pump gas, DOT radials: 1.454, 10.523 at 126.44 (DA 514 ft)
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Re: Intake porting?
[Re: B1MAXX]
#3194225
11/29/23 06:31 PM
11/29/23 06:31 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,163 Melbourne , Australia
LA360
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,163
Melbourne , Australia
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Has anyone back to backed a 2000$ intake port job ? I don't think it would be cost effective. Anyone racing in a Heads up class, Super Stock, or Comp Eliminator, will say yes. They have to to stay competitive. Anyone else, probably not. There have been more limited run, high end cast single 4 barrel intakes pop up from guys like Chris Uratchko. They are a $1500 cast intake, but their selling point is they don't need all the port work to perform. Brett Miller's W8 cast intake would fall under that also.
Alan Jones
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Re: Intake porting?
[Re: B1MAXX]
#3194261
11/29/23 08:15 PM
11/29/23 08:15 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 31,201 Oregon
AndyF
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 31,201
Oregon
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Has anyone back to backed a 2000$ intake port job ? I don't think it would be cost effective. Somewhere in the 25 to 30 hp range. And lots of racers will pay $2000 if it means they win the round rather than loading on the trailer. Bracket guys don't care so much, but heads up guys spend more than that to pick up less. Another point is that a Wilson intake is always worth money. You can race with a Wilson intake for years and then turn around and sell it for close to what you paid since the Wilson brand is so strong. If you pay a local guy $500 for port work you might get 1/3 of that back when you go to sell, If the porter doesn't have a reputation then people won't pay much for it.
Last edited by AndyF; 11/29/23 08:18 PM.
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Re: Intake porting?
[Re: AndyF]
#3194376
11/30/23 08:44 AM
11/30/23 08:44 AM
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 2,065 Apollo, PA.
B1MAXX
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 2,065
Apollo, PA.
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Has anyone back to backed a 2000$ intake port job ? I don't think it would be cost effective. Somewhere in the 25 to 30 hp range. And lots of racers will pay $2000 if it means they win the round rather than loading on the trailer. Bracket guys don't care so much, but heads up guys spend more than that to pick up less. Another point is that a Wilson intake is always worth money. You can race with a Wilson intake for years and then turn around and sell it for close to what you paid since the Wilson brand is so strong. If you pay a local guy $500 for port work you might get 1/3 of that back when you go to sell, If the porter doesn't have a reputation then people won't pay much for it. I guess there is a time and place for porting, but thinking in terms of the op, 2000 on intake porting a M1 for maybe a tenth is not worth it. I can't see more than that in a gasket matched M1. Just my opinion. The m1 is a pretty good intake in my opinion.
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Re: Intake porting?
[Re: LA360]
#3194637
12/01/23 08:54 AM
12/01/23 08:54 AM
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,534 bronx n.y
one bad fish
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,534
bronx n.y
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Has anyone back to backed a 2000$ intake port job ? I don't think it would be cost effective. Anyone racing in a Heads up class, Super Stock, or Comp Eliminator, will say yes. They have to to stay competitive. Anyone else, probably not. There have been more limited run, high end cast single 4 barrel intakes pop up from guys like Chris Uratchko. They are a $1500 cast intake, but their selling point is they don't need all the port work to perform. Brett Miller's W8 cast intake would fall under that also. bretts intakes are piece of jewlery
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Re: Intake porting?
[Re: B1MAXX]
#3194640
12/01/23 09:37 AM
12/01/23 09:37 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,492 Marion, South Carolina [><]
an8sec70cuda
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,492
Marion, South Carolina [><]
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Has anyone back to backed a 2000$ intake port job ? I don't think it would be cost effective. Somewhere in the 25 to 30 hp range. And lots of racers will pay $2000 if it means they win the round rather than loading on the trailer. Bracket guys don't care so much, but heads up guys spend more than that to pick up less. Another point is that a Wilson intake is always worth money. You can race with a Wilson intake for years and then turn around and sell it for close to what you paid since the Wilson brand is so strong. If you pay a local guy $500 for port work you might get 1/3 of that back when you go to sell, If the porter doesn't have a reputation then people won't pay much for it. I guess there is a time and place for porting, but thinking in terms of the op, 2000 on intake porting a M1 for maybe a tenth is not worth it. I can't see more than that in a gasket matched M1. Just my opinion. The m1 is a pretty good intake in my opinion. If I have to spend over $2k in a cast manifold, I'm going to be looking into a custom sheet metal piece. Unless I'm rules limited to a cast manifold only. For the OP, I'd just buy a better manifold at this point. Later on maybe have someone do a 400-500 port job on it. At the end of the day, a $2k ported M1 is still just an M1. Seems to me that anyone willing to spend 2k on a cast manifold is gonna be wanting something a lot more serious than an M1.
CHIP '70 hemicuda, 575" Hemi, 727, Dana 60 '69 road runner, 440-6, 4 speed, Dana 60 '71 Demon 340, no drivetrain, on blocks behind the barn '73 Chrysler New Yorker, 440, 727, 8.75 '90 Chevy 454SS Silverado, 476" BBC, TH400, 14 bolt '06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax
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Re: Intake porting?
[Re: Thelma133]
#3194641
12/01/23 09:49 AM
12/01/23 09:49 AM
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Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,804 Wichita
GY3
master
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master
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,804
Wichita
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John O’Neill custom porting. He did head work and manifolds at BES. Has gone out on his own now. He also builds motors with his partner Carl. They are in Benton ks. Wow, no kiddin'! This is in my back door! Good to know.
'63 Dodge 330
11.19 @ 121 mph Pump gas, n/a, through the mufflers on street tires with 3.54's. 3,600 lbs.
9.92 @ 135mph with a 350 shot of nitrous and 93 octane pump. 1.43 60 ft. 3,750 lbs.
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Re: Intake porting?
[Re: gch]
#3194643
12/01/23 10:03 AM
12/01/23 10:03 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,492 Marion, South Carolina [><]
an8sec70cuda
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,492
Marion, South Carolina [><]
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Ray Meyers (sixpackgut) does porting. He ported my Barton hemi manifold and did an awesome job on it. It definitely made more power after he got done w/ it...no back to back tests b/c at the time I was having issues w/ a lot of other things. He's near Charleston, SC.
CHIP '70 hemicuda, 575" Hemi, 727, Dana 60 '69 road runner, 440-6, 4 speed, Dana 60 '71 Demon 340, no drivetrain, on blocks behind the barn '73 Chrysler New Yorker, 440, 727, 8.75 '90 Chevy 454SS Silverado, 476" BBC, TH400, 14 bolt '06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax
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Re: Intake porting?
[Re: an8sec70cuda]
#3194684
12/01/23 12:52 PM
12/01/23 12:52 PM
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Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,564 Tulsa, Oklahoma
340Cuda
master
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master
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,564
Tulsa, Oklahoma
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Has anyone back to backed a 2000$ intake port job ? I don't think it would be cost effective. Somewhere in the 25 to 30 hp range. And lots of racers will pay $2000 if it means they win the round rather than loading on the trailer. Bracket guys don't care so much, but heads up guys spend more than that to pick up less. Another point is that a Wilson intake is always worth money. You can race with a Wilson intake for years and then turn around and sell it for close to what you paid since the Wilson brand is so strong. If you pay a local guy $500 for port work you might get 1/3 of that back when you go to sell, If the porter doesn't have a reputation then people won't pay much for it. I guess there is a time and place for porting, but thinking in terms of the op, 2000 on intake porting a M1 for maybe a tenth is not worth it. I can't see more than that in a gasket matched M1. Just my opinion. The m1 is a pretty good intake in my opinion. If I have to spend over $2k in a cast manifold, I'm going to be looking into a custom sheet metal piece. Unless I'm rules limited to a cast manifold only. For the OP, I'd just buy a better manifold at this point. Later on maybe have someone do a 400-500 port job on it. At the end of the day, a $2k ported M1 is still just an M1. Seems to me that anyone willing to spend 2k on a cast manifold is gonna be wanting something a lot more serious than an M1. The thing is custom sheet metal manifolds sometimes come in second to properly ported cast manifolds. I have a friend with an NHRA Super Stocker that took off a name brand fabricated intake manifold and replaced it with an heavily modified cast manifold and lowered ETs. Of course there are many stories of the opposite being true. The very best cars spend a lot of money on good stuff that does not work with their combination. Bill
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Re: Intake porting?
[Re: 340Cuda]
#3194694
12/01/23 01:35 PM
12/01/23 01:35 PM
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Joined: Dec 2021
Posts: 1,319 Loudoun County, VA
Brad_Haak
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Dec 2021
Posts: 1,319
Loudoun County, VA
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Here's the history of my RB M1 intake, along w/ experience with a couple of other intakes Hughes did welding & porting in plenum to convert mounting pad from TQ-style to square-bore 4150 style I did additional porting in plenum and runners I added epoxy in runners to correct port alignment issues due to core shift Car ran 126 MPH w/ a 1" Super Sucker spacer using that intake Epoxy lifted due to 10% ethanol in pump fuel Swapped the M1 for Victor intake w/ my own plenum work and some light runner cleanup; no room for spacer due to limited hood scoop clearance; that particular intake made about 10 HP more than an unmodified Victor on Dwayne's dyno, and 5+ HP more than the M1 w/ spacer did, IIRC, on a 610+ HP combination Car picked up by .05 ET and .5 MPH with no other changes, which is right in line w/ the difference seen on the dyno Tried to open runners of M1 up to match the Hughes CNC-ported "semi-MW" Victors I purchased, but the casting didn't have enough meat Had local welder build up top of intake runners to allow for raising the ports enough for those Victors... ugly, ugly, ugly My subsequent porting wasn't my best work (I rushed through it too quickly, instead of taking my time) and I hated the way it turned out Sold those Hughes CNC heads and started over with new standard-port Victors that Dwayne finished for me, leaving the size a true "standard" port Tried to use Belzona to shrink the M1 runners back to standard... ended up with a horrible & unusable mess in the runners that I won't be able to fix easily, if at all That intake is basically a really expensive (my time and other people's labor) aluminum doorstop now Took an out-of-the-box Trick Flow intake and spent less than 30 minutes doing basic plenum and runner casting cleanup (not even port-matched); made 680-ish HP with a 1" Super Sucker spacer... guess-timating it's 10+ HP more than that M1 would make if it was still usable I've got an untouched Trick Flow I can swap out to check if any work I do to the first one shows improvements on the track Unfortunately for me... This is The Way... I go about things
2021 Challenger 6.4L Scat Pack 1320 100% stock: 1.680, 11.894 at 113.75 (DA 175 ft) weight reduction, wheels, tires, Hellcat air box: 1.661, 11.686 at 115.97 (DA 710 ft)
1973 Challenger 452 ci street/strip [2008] pump gas, DOT radials: 1.454, 10.523 at 126.44 (DA 514 ft)
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