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Re: Gear drive binding
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#3169148
08/20/23 08:42 AM
08/20/23 08:42 AM
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 553
Kentucky
clovis
OP
mopar
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OP
mopar
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 553
Kentucky
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Again, just not sure if what I am feeling is normal. This is my fourth complete disassemble-assemble of an BB engine. All those had spring pressure in the 350 range, and this one is in the 420 range, so what I am feeling may simply be 70 pounds difference. I am curious what it feels like to turn over a roller cam on the stand. I have thought about using my torque wrench to measure the resistance and see if I can find some comparison info. I have read that a few engine builders actually measure the resistance to ensure they are where they want to be.
Again, with a short handle 1/2” ratchet sitting in front of it, it rolls over very nicely. Once the rockers are on, the pressure picks up significantly and at a couple of points I have to standup to pull on it. I’m a big boy so I know that if I stand up with a long handle 1/2” bar, I can make things move that maybe shouldn’t move. When I did hit this hard spot the first time (with the gear drive), my dad (real mechanic) was with me, and after checking everything we simply put more pressure on it and it rolled over. I am curious if I put more lube on the cam if I could tell the difference.
I agree with you Cab, the motor is telling me something, I am just unsure if it telling me it has a problem or the engine builder is simply inexperienced.
Again, I appreciate all the feedback.
'75 Plymouth Duster
Phase I 451 906/590/2-660 10.75/126
Phase II 451 Stage VI/590/1050 9.82/135
Phase III 383 906/Victor-Pump gas 11.30/119
"For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,"
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Re: Gear drive binding
[Re: clovis]
#3169173
08/20/23 11:27 AM
08/20/23 11:27 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,919
A shed in England
Tig
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,919
A shed in England
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Again, just not sure if what I am feeling is normal. This is my fourth complete disassemble-assemble of an BB engine. All those had spring pressure in the 350 range, and this one is in the 420 range, so what I am feeling may simply be 70 pounds difference. I am curious what it feels like to turn over a roller cam on the stand. I have thought about using my torque wrench to measure the resistance and see if I can find some comparison info. I have read that a few engine builders actually measure the resistance to ensure they are where they want to be.
Again, with a short handle 1/2” ratchet sitting in front of it, it rolls over very nicely. Once the rockers are on, the pressure picks up significantly and at a couple of points I have to standup to pull on it. I’m a big boy so I know that if I stand up with a long handle 1/2” bar, I can make things move that maybe shouldn’t move. When I did hit this hard spot the first time (with the gear drive), my dad (real mechanic) was with me, and after checking everything we simply put more pressure on it and it rolled over. I am curious if I put more lube on the cam if I could tell the difference.
I agree with you Cab, the motor is telling me something, I am just unsure if it telling me it has a problem or the engine builder is simply inexperienced.
Again, I appreciate all the feedback. I have noticed when fitting rocker arms after fitting the first few pairs (Jesel individual paired rockers), there is enough spring pressure to rotate the engine. Once they are all installed, they sort of cancel each other out and the effort to rotate is equal through the whole 720 degrees of valve train operation. So something is off. I had a Milodon gear drive that would tighten up when rotated, IIRC with the Milodon system you can adjust the gear depth, so we set it to the recommended where it was tight. I only ran it a season then moved to a Jesel belt drive.
'74 Challenger..9.46 @ 145.9 1/4, 6.001 @ 118 1/8 so far. 4023lb !!! # N/A, Marsh performance 655ci, Indy Maxx, T/R, Indy 600-13 X's, Street legal, pump gas, full interior, Cal-Tracs, mufflers, 3:73's and real 10.5 radials.
9.51 @ 142.4 1/4, 6.003 @ 114 1/8 with our old mule KB, 572-13, 580 wedge.
RHD '68 Barracuda Fastback 323ci street/strip. Best ET 13.88 @ 99.03
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Re: Gear drive binding
[Re: Tig]
#3169293
08/20/23 08:19 PM
08/20/23 08:19 PM
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 553
Kentucky
clovis
OP
mopar
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OP
mopar
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 553
Kentucky
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Re-oiled everything, backed off the adjusters and put the rockers on both sides. I grabbed the torque wrench and started at 70lbs, and at 90 lbs I could rollover the engine. With the longer bar, i didn’t notice any points that were tighter than others. What I did get is some squeak, it varied in location so I couldn’t get a good read on what it was or where it was. I snapped a video of rolling it over, so any help will be appreciated. https://youtu.be/pEU-NT2pka8
'75 Plymouth Duster
Phase I 451 906/590/2-660 10.75/126
Phase II 451 Stage VI/590/1050 9.82/135
Phase III 383 906/Victor-Pump gas 11.30/119
"For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,"
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Re: Gear drive binding
[Re: B1duster]
#3171691
08/30/23 04:05 PM
08/30/23 04:05 PM
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 553
Kentucky
clovis
OP
mopar
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OP
mopar
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 553
Kentucky
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I do feel better with the chain on it but I am ashamed to admit I think my problem was just me expecting to be able to use a 9" ratchet to turn it over. I am glad I measured the cam to crank as I do think the gear drive is not set up to handle to the shorter distance, and so between the short ratchet and the -.010 on the cam to crank difference, that was the problem.
The motors rolls over smoothly using a longer bar as it does take some effort to turn it over with the spring on it, but the squeak is still there. I checked the pushrods and I am good there. I decided to prime it a little without the pan to see if getting some oil in the passages would help my squeak and it didn't. I went ahead and put the pan on it, primed it where i have oil everywhere, then I set the lash and I still have the squeak. I squirted a little oil in the cylinders, still nothing. I have convinced myself the noise is the lifters on the cam. Since there is no constant source of oil on the cam and with the spring pressures every time I roll it over it is basically wiping the oil off the cam, and that is why the noise is bouncing around. I have the Comp cam lube and my dad gave me some Caterpillar cam lube they used at the mines, so I am going generously lube and turn it over to see if I can eliminate the noise.
'75 Plymouth Duster
Phase I 451 906/590/2-660 10.75/126
Phase II 451 Stage VI/590/1050 9.82/135
Phase III 383 906/Victor-Pump gas 11.30/119
"For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,"
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Re: Gear drive binding
[Re: rickraw]
#3172251
09/02/23 09:39 AM
09/02/23 09:39 AM
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,051
The Great White North
RAMM
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,051
The Great White North
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I see in the 1 pic you have the intake passages and exhaust taped up. Is the noise there with the tape removed? rickraw has it 90% right. What you are hearing is a normal sound of the rings and air trying to squeeze in past the taped off ports. Nothing wrong with your build concerning the squeek. J.Rob
2009 PHR\EMC Competitor
2010 PHR\EMC Competitor
2011 PHR\EMC Competitor
2012 PHR\EMC Competitor
2013 PHR\EMC Competitor
2014 HotRod/EMC Competitor
2015 HotRod/EMC NoShow
2016 HotRod/EMC 3rd place SPEC Bigblock
2018 HotRod/EMC 7th place G3
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Re: Gear drive binding
[Re: RAMM]
#3172665
09/03/23 08:38 PM
09/03/23 08:38 PM
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 553
Kentucky
clovis
OP
mopar
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OP
mopar
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 553
Kentucky
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https://youtu.be/tFR66o_EFS0?feature=sharedWell, took the tape off, squeak is still there. I cut some paper strips and put them between the head and pushrod to ensure my pushrod are not rubbing. I’m getting more convinced it is the cam as when I am turning it over and hear the squeak I can lay my hand in the push rods and I can feel a vibration. That is why I went back and checked my pushrods with the paper. Would putting a used cam in a different block be cause for concern? I could see where the lifter could be at a slight different angle or position from the original block.
'75 Plymouth Duster
Phase I 451 906/590/2-660 10.75/126
Phase II 451 Stage VI/590/1050 9.82/135
Phase III 383 906/Victor-Pump gas 11.30/119
"For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,"
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