Re: Can rust be thoroughly cleaned from inside of axle housing
[Re: stumpy]
#3166148
08/07/23 12:26 AM
08/07/23 12:26 AM
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,653 Cut and Shoot, TX
kentj340
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,653
Cut and Shoot, TX
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This method easily removed all rust from the exterior of an axle housing as shown in the photos with 6-7 gallons of Evapo-Rust. If there had been rust on the interior (there was none), it would have been removed also.
An easier way to remove just interior rust only would be to cap the ends of the housing with 2 x 6 scrap drilled with the bolt circle of the outboard flanges to bolt on the wood scrap with a gasket. Then fill the housing with under 5 gallons of Evapo-Rust after degreasing.
If you don't see two dolphins, you need a vacation.
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Re: Can rust be thoroughly cleaned from inside of axle housing
[Re: kentj340]
#3166152
08/07/23 12:38 AM
08/07/23 12:38 AM
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,653 Cut and Shoot, TX
kentj340
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Joined: Mar 2011
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Cut and Shoot, TX
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Before and after.
Note condition of exterior bare metal in second photo, upper right corner, after applying paint stripper, paint thinner wash, phosphoric acid, and paint thinner wash. After painting, bare metal was coated with RPM wax. As for the interior, just immediately wash off Evapo-Rust with paint thinner, and carefully inspect for debris around the heads of the hub bolts. Those same hub bolts may be available from AMKproducts.com if replacement needed.
If you don't see two dolphins, you need a vacation.
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Re: Can rust be thoroughly cleaned from inside of axle housing
[Re: kentj340]
#3166172
08/07/23 08:47 AM
08/07/23 08:47 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,619 MA
ragtop
OP
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OP
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MA
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Before and after.
Note condition of exterior bare metal in second photo, upper right corner, after applying paint stripper, paint thinner wash, phosphoric acid, and paint thinner wash. After painting, bare metal was coated with RPM wax. As for the interior, just immediately wash off Evapo-Rust with paint thinner, and carefully inspect for debris around the heads of the hub bolts. Those same hub bolts may be available from AMKproducts.com if replacement needed. Nice job. Looks great. Thank you for all that info.
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Re: Can rust be thoroughly cleaned from inside of axle housing
[Re: ragtop]
#3166195
08/07/23 10:28 AM
08/07/23 10:28 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,004 U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,004
U.S.S.A.
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Can rust be thoroughly cleaned from inside of axle housing? It was sitting outside for years. Could it be cleaned of rust good enough to trust it not to contaminate my new gears, or should I not take a chance and scrap it and buy a cleaner one? Thanks. Make some caps for the ends and the coverchunk opening and fill it with evaporust ? Maybe make a tub lined with plastic sheeting and sumberge the entire thing ? Clean the oil off/out first. kentj340 beat me too it .
Last edited by JohnRR; 08/07/23 10:30 AM.
running up my post count some more .
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Re: Can rust be thoroughly cleaned from inside of axle housing
[Re: JohnRR]
#3166257
08/07/23 01:35 PM
08/07/23 01:35 PM
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Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 9,454 Super Spudsville
Mr PotatoHead
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Half Baked
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Super Spudsville
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Just find someone with a good caustic soda hot tank. Mine is 4x8 and ive dipped housings and they come out near like a new part in three days. Probably be easier and cheaper then your time and gallons of evap.
STOP POTATO HATE!
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Re: Can rust be thoroughly cleaned from inside of axle housing
[Re: TJP]
#3166396
08/07/23 11:51 PM
08/07/23 11:51 PM
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Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,821 South Bend
John Brown
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Just find someone with a good caustic soda hot tank. Mine is 4x8 and ive dipped housings and they come out near like a new part in three days. Probably be easier and cheaper then your time and gallons of evap. or a vinegar concoction in a large plastic bag, drum or ? Dollar Store has vinegar for $1.25 for a half gallon. Lowes has lye concentrate cheaper than anyone else I have found. Lye doesn't attack steel, vinegar does when left soaking for a few days.
July 19th should be "Drive Like Rockford Day". R.I.P. Jimmie.
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Re: Can rust be thoroughly cleaned from inside of axle housing
[Re: mopowers]
#3166432
08/08/23 07:47 AM
08/08/23 07:47 AM
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Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 983 rust belt
Moparite
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Re: Can rust be thoroughly cleaned from inside of axle housing
[Re: Mr PotatoHead]
#3166480
08/08/23 10:48 AM
08/08/23 10:48 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,004 U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,004
U.S.S.A.
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Just find someone with a good caustic soda hot tank. Mine is 4x8 and ive dipped housings and they come out near like a new part in three days. Probably be easier and cheaper then your time and gallons of evap. That's hard to find in the northeast thanks to the EPA, there used to be a place with a big dip tank ... can't remember it nationwide chain ... that I had the frame to my 56 chevy dipped in back in the 80's
running up my post count some more .
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Re: Can rust be thoroughly cleaned from inside of axle housing
[Re: JohnRR]
#3166544
08/08/23 01:28 PM
08/08/23 01:28 PM
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Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 9,454 Super Spudsville
Mr PotatoHead
Half Baked
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Half Baked
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 9,454
Super Spudsville
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I had heard that many times and I bought a couple pallets of the pellets maybe 25 years ago or better and poured them into sealable plastic drums and just ration them as needed or when one of the heating elements go bad and ive got to drain some to replace. Not even sure what the pellets are but I treat them with care and a good mask. The thick bags of multi layer paper like simply said "Caustic Soda Pellets" nothing more. Since mine is more or less for personal use/friend use I mostly just add water and pellets when needed. It is killer for cast and steel but if I forget to pull a bearing or miss an aluminum part it eats them. Ive given up on any local machine shops block/head cleaning as its substandard and then if they have to do it twice $100 to clean a block thats not really clean.... naa. Ive an old diesel fuel powered steam cleaner/blaster that does a better job. Its probably 50 years old and is not in the favor of the epa either. Just find someone with a good caustic soda hot tank. Mine is 4x8 and ive dipped housings and they come out near like a new part in three days. Probably be easier and cheaper then your time and gallons of evap. That's hard to find in the northeast thanks to the EPA, there used to be a place with a big dip tank ... can't remember it nationwide chain ... that I had the frame to my 56 chevy dipped in back in the 80's
STOP POTATO HATE!
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Re: Can rust be thoroughly cleaned from inside of axle housing
[Re: mopowers]
#3166594
08/08/23 03:56 PM
08/08/23 03:56 PM
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 8,162 USA
360view
Moparts resident spammer
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Moparts resident spammer
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Posts: 8,162
USA
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I'd go with granulated citric acid. Cap the ends and fill it up at 30:1 ratio. A 5 lb bag is enough for 18 gallons and should only cost around $20. It only takes a couple days for the rust to disappear. I recently soaked a deck lid and the results were great. I have never used citric acid for rust removal. When I googled it I found these comments from chemistry.stackexchange ........ Long, long time ago I was employed to formulate rust removers for iron. We needed to be concerned with toxicity, corrosivity, cost, waste disposal, effectiveness, speed, damage to the (uncorroded) metal, and flash rusting (rapid rusting once cleaner is rinsed off). Rust isn't just one chemical compound. It is generally hydrates of FeO F e O and Fe2O3 F e 2 O 3 (and there are a bunch of them, even if you exclude hydroxides). So, since different acids will have different effects with different chemicals, you won't necessarily be able to find the one magic bullet for any and all types of rust. The stronger the acid, the more metal will be attacked, unless passivation is used (there's two types chemical and electrical). Amines are also often used. Strong acids Hydrochloric, sulfuric, nitric, are all more aggressive than the weaker organic acids. Naval Jelly (which I was involved with) uses phosphoric acid, but as you noted, it coats the steel/iron. These mineral acids can be dangerous and can't just be thrown out when finished. There are alternatives. One trick is to get the chloride, sulfate, or nitrate into solution by using a compound other than the acid. For instance, adding sodium chloride to a solution of citric acid should make the citric acid more aggressive, and yet, won't change the pH. (One reason for this is that FeCl3 FeCl3 is more soluble than the iron citrate.) Hint: one reason citric acid works pretty well is because the salt it forms is more soluble than something like iron phosphate, so it leaves the surface allowing further attack. Some de-icers use nitrate or calcium chloride which may also be effective, and of course some fertilizers use nitrates, too (even some for indoor plants). So, if you'd rather not work with the strong acids (unless you're a careful person, you shouldn't work with them), you could try that approach. As far as I know, the only other acid commonly used for rust removal is oxalic acid. I think Zud cleanser uses it, if you can find it. It's a poison, so don't be licking your fingers until you've washed them (yes, even assuming you DID wear gloves!). I don't think it is much better than citric acid. In fact, I'd guess it's worse in terms of rust removal. Nitric acid will probably be difficult to find/buy. Hydrochloric acid is available (last I looked) at Home Depot etc. (Look in cleaning products, drain cleaners, and cement cleaners). Sulfuric acid, too. That is also used as battery acid, but I'm not sure if you can buy that at an auto parts store without the lead in it. Do not buy anything with lead in it! Do not use anything (like old battery acid) with lead (Pb) in it. Do not touch...you get the idea, right? Finally, look at a table of pKa values for the acids. So, effectiveness will depend not only on acid strength, but on iron salt solubility. Ideally, you want to avoid any oxidizing acid (since that will dissolve (oxidize) the metal) but in reality, a bit of metal loss helps get rid of that stubbornly clinging rust. end quote
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Re: Can rust be thoroughly cleaned from inside of axle housing
[Re: 360view]
#3166607
08/08/23 05:08 PM
08/08/23 05:08 PM
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,010 Sac, CA
mopowers
master
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master
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,010
Sac, CA
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I'd go with granulated citric acid. Cap the ends and fill it up at 30:1 ratio. A 5 lb bag is enough for 18 gallons and should only cost around $20. It only takes a couple days for the rust to disappear. I recently soaked a deck lid and the results were great. I have never used citric acid for rust removal. When I googled it I found these comments from chemistry.stackexchange ........ Long, long time ago I was employed to formulate rust removers for iron. We needed to be concerned with toxicity, corrosivity, cost, waste disposal, effectiveness, speed, damage to the (uncorroded) metal, and flash rusting (rapid rusting once cleaner is rinsed off). Rust isn't just one chemical compound. It is generally hydrates of FeO F e O and Fe2O3 F e 2 O 3 (and there are a bunch of them, even if you exclude hydroxides). So, since different acids will have different effects with different chemicals, you won't necessarily be able to find the one magic bullet for any and all types of rust. The stronger the acid, the more metal will be attacked, unless passivation is used (there's two types chemical and electrical). Amines are also often used. Strong acids Hydrochloric, sulfuric, nitric, are all more aggressive than the weaker organic acids. Naval Jelly (which I was involved with) uses phosphoric acid, but as you noted, it coats the steel/iron. These mineral acids can be dangerous and can't just be thrown out when finished. There are alternatives. One trick is to get the chloride, sulfate, or nitrate into solution by using a compound other than the acid. For instance, adding sodium chloride to a solution of citric acid should make the citric acid more aggressive, and yet, won't change the pH. (One reason for this is that FeCl3 FeCl3 is more soluble than the iron citrate.) Hint: one reason citric acid works pretty well is because the salt it forms is more soluble than something like iron phosphate, so it leaves the surface allowing further attack. Some de-icers use nitrate or calcium chloride which may also be effective, and of course some fertilizers use nitrates, too (even some for indoor plants). So, if you'd rather not work with the strong acids (unless you're a careful person, you shouldn't work with them), you could try that approach. As far as I know, the only other acid commonly used for rust removal is oxalic acid. I think Zud cleanser uses it, if you can find it. It's a poison, so don't be licking your fingers until you've washed them (yes, even assuming you DID wear gloves!). I don't think it is much better than citric acid. In fact, I'd guess it's worse in terms of rust removal. Nitric acid will probably be difficult to find/buy. Hydrochloric acid is available (last I looked) at Home Depot etc. (Look in cleaning products, drain cleaners, and cement cleaners). Sulfuric acid, too. That is also used as battery acid, but I'm not sure if you can buy that at an auto parts store without the lead in it. Do not buy anything with lead in it! Do not use anything (like old battery acid) with lead (Pb) in it. Do not touch...you get the idea, right? Finally, look at a table of pKa values for the acids. So, effectiveness will depend not only on acid strength, but on iron salt solubility. Ideally, you want to avoid any oxidizing acid (since that will dissolve (oxidize) the metal) but in reality, a bit of metal loss helps get rid of that stubbornly clinging rust. end quote Interesting info! All I know is the citric acid solution mixed at 30:1 worked great for the inner structure of my decklid, and was very cheap at about $1 a gallon. Here are some photos here: https://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopa...reatment-decklid.530169/#post-1974376378
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Re: Can rust be thoroughly cleaned from inside of axle housing
[Re: mopowers]
#3166726
08/09/23 07:22 AM
08/09/23 07:22 AM
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 8,162 USA
360view
Moparts resident spammer
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Moparts resident spammer
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 8,162
USA
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Thanks. I will try some citric acid on a rusty item. Rust never Sleeps.
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