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First time Aluminum block questions #3159915
07/16/23 11:36 AM
07/16/23 11:36 AM
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Portland, Oregon
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Digger73 Offline OP
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Hello all. I am building my first aluminum block big block engine. I have built iron block engines with aluminum heads in the past. I have always ran the iron blocks on the run stand up to operating temp. Then I allow the engine to cool over night and retorque the heads. What I don't know is this. Are there any considerations like this for the aluminum block? Like do I need to retorque the mains? Any first fire up tips pre and post would be greatly appreciated. Thank you, Digger73 (Mike)

Last edited by Digger73; 07/16/23 11:42 AM.

I live with fear everyday but, sometimes she lets me race!
Re: First time Aluminum block questions [Re: Digger73] #3159922
07/16/23 12:05 PM
07/16/23 12:05 PM
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Ambridge, Pa.
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rickraw Offline
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Mains don’t need retorqued. I would retorque the heads after a heat cycle. I just check all other external fasteners, other than that just normal breakin procedures.

Re: First time Aluminum block questions [Re: rickraw] #3159940
07/16/23 01:25 PM
07/16/23 01:25 PM
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pittsburghracer Offline
"Little"John
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I haven’t retorqued a head in 47 years of racing and engine building


1970 Duster
Edelbrock headed 408
5.984@112.52
422 Indy headed small block
5.982@112.56 mph
9.42@138.27

Livin and lovin life one day at a time




Re: First time Aluminum block questions [Re: pittsburghracer] #3159947
07/16/23 01:49 PM
07/16/23 01:49 PM
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Posts: 19,388
north of coder
moparx Offline
"Butt Crack Bob"
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Originally Posted by pittsburghracer
I haven’t retorqued a head in 47 years of racing and engine building




what head gaskets are you using John ?
MLS, factory shim, composition type, or all of the above ?
beer

Re: First time Aluminum block questions [Re: moparx] #3159951
07/16/23 01:57 PM
07/16/23 01:57 PM
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Posts: 20,173
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pittsburghracer Offline
"Little"John
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Originally Posted by moparx
Originally Posted by pittsburghracer
I haven’t retorqued a head in 47 years of racing and engine building




what head gaskets are you using John ?
MLS, factory shim, composition type, or all of the above ?
beer



1008, 1009, 1039, I forget the marine gasket number, and big and small block Cometic Gaskets.


1970 Duster
Edelbrock headed 408
5.984@112.52
422 Indy headed small block
5.982@112.56 mph
9.42@138.27

Livin and lovin life one day at a time




Re: First time Aluminum block questions [Re: pittsburghracer] #3159952
07/16/23 02:04 PM
07/16/23 02:04 PM
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A collage of whims
topside Offline
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A collage of whims
The thing about aluminum blocks, as I understand it, is that there's more expansion/contraction than an iron block.
I haven't heard head-fastener torque being an issue as much as the internal clearances.
Hopefully some serious engine builders with aluminum-block experience post their experiences.

Re: First time Aluminum block questions [Re: pittsburghracer] #3159953
07/16/23 02:04 PM
07/16/23 02:04 PM
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MI, usa
dvw Offline
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I retorque all my stuff during the build itself. Torque as normal. Then after setting 15 minutes or so crack each fastener loose. Then tighten to spec in one pull. You'll be amazed how much further the fastener rotates from the original posistion. Then send it. no need to fire it first. Dave Koffel taught me this trick.
Doug

Re: First time Aluminum block questions [Re: dvw] #3159958
07/16/23 02:16 PM
07/16/23 02:16 PM
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pittsburghracer Offline
"Little"John
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Originally Posted by dvw
I retorque all my stuff during the build itself. Torque as normal. Then after setting 15 minutes or so crack each fastener loose. Then tighten to spec in one pull. You'll be amazed how much further the fastener rotates from the original posistion. Then send it. no need to fire it first. Dave Koffel taught me this trick.
Doug




Exactly but that’s not what he’s talking about. Retorque on an engine stand is common practice but not after firing up the engine. I usually do it the next morning


1970 Duster
Edelbrock headed 408
5.984@112.52
422 Indy headed small block
5.982@112.56 mph
9.42@138.27

Livin and lovin life one day at a time




Re: First time Aluminum block questions [Re: pittsburghracer] #3159970
07/16/23 02:35 PM
07/16/23 02:35 PM
Joined: Mar 2003
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moparacer Offline
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Originally Posted by pittsburghracer
I haven’t retorqued a head in 47 years of racing and engine building


Same here.


67 Barracuda street/bracket car 11.27-119
68 Dart 502 BB 8.70s-152
414 cid SB Dragster 7.65-174
Re: First time Aluminum block questions [Re: pittsburghracer] #3159985
07/16/23 04:03 PM
07/16/23 04:03 PM
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Bend,OR USA
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Cab_Burge Offline
I Win
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Originally Posted by pittsburghracer
I haven’t retorqued a head in 47 years of racing and engine building
iagree up
I may have retorrque one or two after taking them off the engine dyno just to see if any moved or loosened on iron blocks, none did.
Aluminum expands 8 times as much as regular cast iron.
I do recheck the torque readings after doing both heads while assembling them, I use oil or ARP lube on all the threads and under the heads of the bolts and on the head bolt washers also, I use the lower factory torque specs. based on hearing Tom Hoover state at one of the old Mopar Drag seminars that the upper spec is for dry bolts, fasteners and the lower spec. is for oil, lube, on the threads up


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: First time Aluminum block questions [Re: Cab_Burge] #3160000
07/16/23 05:08 PM
07/16/23 05:08 PM
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Posts: 304
Portland, Oregon
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Digger73 Offline OP
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Portland, Oregon
Thank you all for your answers. This is just my first experience with an aluminum block and just wanted to see if there were differences I needed to know about. I have always backed the head fasteners off after torqueing the heads and hitting straight to the torque final value. When I started using aluminum heads I run the engine(s) on the run stand to temp. Then let the engine(s) cool over night and check the heads torque again. This all sets my mind at ease that I might be doing something right. smile Digger73 (Mike)


I live with fear everyday but, sometimes she lets me race!
Re: First time Aluminum block questions [Re: pittsburghracer] #3160595
07/18/23 02:13 PM
07/18/23 02:13 PM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 19,388
north of coder
moparx Offline
"Butt Crack Bob"
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north of coder
Originally Posted by pittsburghracer
Originally Posted by moparx
Originally Posted by pittsburghracer
I haven’t retorqued a head in 47 years of racing and engine building




what head gaskets are you using John ?
MLS, factory shim, composition type, or all of the above ?
beer



1008, 1009, 1039, I forget the marine gasket number, and big and small block Cometic Gaskets.



thank you sir. up bow
beer

Re: First time Aluminum block questions [Re: moparx] #3160795
07/18/23 10:38 PM
07/18/23 10:38 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 4,675
On the parachute mount
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n20mstr Offline
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On the parachute mount
the most important thing i would say , is get used to the way temp effects the valve lash. AMbient from 90 to 40 will tighten it a lot . Expect to see .010 or less at 70 because it will grow a lot at 180* engine temp. When building these engines in my basement in the winter , i set the lash at .008 in 50-60 degree temps. THe best thing is to get the engine uo to temp you will run it at, Check the lash on one int and exh, Let the engine cool overnight , then measure it again. Take not of the ambient temp and you have your "growth" factor .


....BAD A$$ STREET CAR.....






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