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Oil pan gasket and/or timing cover leak? (440-3)
#315684
05/12/09 02:00 AM
05/12/09 02:00 AM
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Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 34
Highland, CA
Mosin
OP
member
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OP
member
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 34
Highland, CA
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Hi All, As you can see in the photos below, my 440-3 has a persistent oil leak in the vicinity of the passenger side oil pan/timing cover joint. I have tried and failed to stop the leak by redoing the oil pan gasket (5 times now!  ) going from the Milodon to Mopar and now and Felpro #1834 oil pan gaskets. I have tried them dry and with Right Stuff around the front to no avail. I had a metal shop flatten the flanges twice, and am currently running a Felpro #1834 dry (i.e. without any sealant) as depicted below. Having failed to stop the leak via the oil pan gasket, and studied its growth/path several times, I'm now wondering if the problem is the upward deformation of the "stiffening plate" at the bottom of the timing cover on the passenger side, which is where the oil seems to be emerging. Because there isn't a bolt to cinch that reinforced portion of the timing cover straight down to the oil pan, you can see in the photos that the gasket is not compressed there as it is along the front and sides. I was thinking about pulling the oil pan again and trying to bend the lower timing cover down on the passenger side to see if that provides a more solid mating surface with the oil pan gasket, but I thought it would be a good idea to check in with Wiser Minds around here and share the photos before making the leak even worse!! TIA for any tips/suggestions!
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Re: Oil pan gasket and/or timing cover leak? (440-3)
[Re: Mosin]
#315687
05/12/09 12:39 PM
05/12/09 12:39 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,791
Hamilton, Ontario Canada
Magnum
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,791
Hamilton, Ontario Canada
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The proper fix would be to drop the pan. Check the rail for straightness. Bending it up doesn't seem like a bad idea from your pictures storey but I'd think straight should do it.
For a driver type of repair if you don't feel like dropping the pan. A mini C clamp or drill a hole and then run a nut and bolt through there.
69 Super Bee, 93 Mustang LX, 04 Allure Super
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Re: Oil pan gasket and/or timing cover leak? (440-3)
[Re: Mr.Yuck]
#315689
05/12/09 01:12 PM
05/12/09 01:12 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,288
Danville, NH
Mopar_Mike
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,288
Danville, NH
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Do you have leaks anywhere else? I am only asking because I did my pan over 2-times and did the timing cover over 2-more times only to have the same leak in the same spot as yours. I also had valve covers leaks. The light bulb went on when I saw a bubble come out the valve cover leak.. That told me it was pressure slipping past my gaskets. I added an e-vac system and all the leaks went away. My two cents would be to check your PCV. Don't just assume a couple breathers will do the trick, make sure you have a good ventilation system. Good luck.. leaks suck..
RS23L7 4-Speed
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Re: Oil pan gasket and/or timing cover leak? (440-3)
[Re: Mopar_Mike]
#315690
05/12/09 01:22 PM
05/12/09 01:22 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck
Not enough dumb comments...yet
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Not enough dumb comments...yet
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
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Quote:
Do you have leaks anywhere else? I am only asking because I did my pan over 2-times and did the timing cover over 2-more times only to have the same leak in the same spot as yours. I also had valve covers leaks. The light bulb went on when I saw a bubble come out the valve cover leak.. That told me it was pressure slipping past my gaskets. I added an e-vac system and all the leaks went away. My two cents would be to check your PCV. Don't just assume a couple breathers will do the trick, make sure you have a good ventilation system. Good luck.. leaks suck..
good point. I've seen valley pans pop up like jiffy pop because the engine had no way to vent.
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Re: Oil pan gasket and/or timing cover leak? (440-3)
[Re: JohnRR]
#315692
05/12/09 02:47 PM
05/12/09 02:47 PM
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Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 34
Highland, CA
Mosin
OP
member
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OP
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Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 34
Highland, CA
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Many thanks for the responses!  The timing cover is stock (i.e. not chrome) and there is no windage tray. Having Gunked the oil off several times and watched the leak grow I am sure it isn't coming from the VCs or the upper timing cover seal where it meets the block. Additionally, I had a metal shop straighten the pan rails and am using slightly oversized washers to create a better contact. The passenger side PCV checks out A-OK (it's new) and I also have a breather on the passenger side VC. (Note: I don't have any VC leaks, but the driver's side VC doesn't have any breather or venting...just the twist-on cap. Is this a problem?) Re. the idea to use a c-clamp or drilling a new hole for an additional nut/bolt to cinch the stiffening plate down to the pan rail on the passenger side, I was considering this, but seeing the amount of leakage I think I'm going to have to drop the pan again and try some sealant around the front lip. I have been using Gaskacinch (no love) and Right Stuff (even less love as it's 5x as expensive and still didn't work). Does anyone have a different product to suggest that has worked for them, or should I just go for the Right Stuff again after straightening the bottom of the timing cover down? Thanks again!!
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Re: Oil pan gasket and/or timing cover leak? (440-3)
[Re: Bill MeLater]
#315696
05/13/09 01:24 AM
05/13/09 01:24 AM
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Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 34
Highland, CA
Mosin
OP
member
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OP
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Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 34
Highland, CA
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Thanks for the tip! I'm assuming the Permatex Blue/Hylomar version is the same thing? (there's some conflicting info out there on the Internets re. Hylomar in UK vs. USA). My plan of attack tomorrow will be to clean of the oil once again and try a c-clamp on the pss side lower timing cover/pan joint. If that stops the flow, I'll drill a strategic supplementary bolt hole and be done with it...perhaps redoing the oil pan seal with Hylomar along the front if necessary. With my luck, that won't work and I'll be doing the entire cover,  but it's worth a try! Thanks again for the responses. PS Tried sealing the bolts with Right Stuff already but it didn't work.  <==20W-50!
Last edited by Mosin; 05/13/09 01:34 AM.
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Re: Oil pan gasket and/or timing cover leak? (440-3)
[Re: Mosin]
#315697
05/13/09 09:03 AM
05/13/09 09:03 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,326
A gulag near you.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,326
A gulag near you.
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Quote:
Thanks for the tip! I'm assuming the Permatex Blue/Hylomar version is the same thing? (there's some conflicting info out there on the Internets re. Hylomar in UK vs. USA).
My plan of attack tomorrow will be to clean of the oil once again and try a c-clamp on the pss side lower timing cover/pan joint. If that stops the flow, I'll drill a strategic supplementary bolt hole and be done with it...perhaps redoing the oil pan seal with Hylomar along the front if necessary. With my luck, that won't work and I'll be doing the entire cover, but it's worth a try! Thanks again for the responses.
PS Tried sealing the bolts with Right Stuff already but it didn't work. <==20W-50!
No reason to add the bolt if just straighten out the timing cover ???
Also are you SURE your fuel pump is not the leak point , but it's easy to see the timing cover is bent , I'm surprised it leaked after you gobbed it with RTV ???
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Re: Oil pan gasket and/or timing cover leak? (440-3)
[Re: JohnRR]
#315698
05/13/09 09:09 AM
05/13/09 09:09 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck
Not enough dumb comments...yet
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Not enough dumb comments...yet
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
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Quote:
Quote:
Thanks for the tip! I'm assuming the Permatex Blue/Hylomar version is the same thing? (there's some conflicting info out there on the Internets re. Hylomar in UK vs. USA).
My plan of attack tomorrow will be to clean of the oil once again and try a c-clamp on the pss side lower timing cover/pan joint. If that stops the flow, I'll drill a strategic supplementary bolt hole and be done with it...perhaps redoing the oil pan seal with Hylomar along the front if necessary. With my luck, that won't work and I'll be doing the entire cover, but it's worth a try! Thanks again for the responses.
PS Tried sealing the bolts with Right Stuff already but it didn't work. <==20W-50!
No reason to add the bolt if just straighten out the timing cover ???
Also are you SURE your fuel pump is not the leak point , but it's easy to see the timing cover is bent , I'm surprised it leaked after you gobbed it with RTV ???
easy enough to find out, go buy some dye at the parts store and run it then check it.
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Re: Oil pan gasket and/or timing cover leak? (440-3)
[Re: bee1971]
#2132021
08/13/16 02:52 PM
08/13/16 02:52 PM
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Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 3,675
Akron, Ohio U.S.A.
roadhazard
master
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master
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 3,675
Akron, Ohio U.S.A.
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Old Thread
Same Exact Area
Have The Timing Chain Cover Off Now A quick phone call could have saved you the time of searching this out. Free tech advise when using our products 
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Re: Oil pan gasket and/or timing cover leak? (440-3)
[Re: Mosin]
#2132341
08/13/16 10:50 PM
08/13/16 10:50 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,822
Sobieski Wi
bee1971
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,822
Sobieski Wi
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Road Hazard I sent you a PM
Peace Scott
TJP
Great advice , Thank You
Fuel pump gasket and pipe plug look spotless
Honestly my engine is very clean
Anyways going to order a new reproduction timing chain cover , don't like the look of the factory 45 year old original , especially that bottom flange
Install a new seal
New gaskets
And then re install oil pan and go from there
It really looked from what I saw before ripping it apart , was coming from the area of the larger bolt on the front bottom corner of timing chain cover , passenger side timing chain cover gasket right above oil pan
I have owned this car since 1984 when I was in high school
Rebuilt the numbers matching motor give or take 20 years ago
Forget what I have actually done over the years
Last edited by bee1971; 08/14/16 05:51 AM.
1971 Dodge Charger Superbee
2011 Ram Sport 1500 Quad Cab Deep Water Blue Loaded
Siberian Huskies
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Also, is anyone running a Felpro 1834 dry, or should I be using some sealant around the front as well? Thanks!
