Whole house generator/ HVAC question
#3155214
06/29/23 12:08 PM
06/29/23 12:08 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,774 St. Louis, Missouri area
Cometstorm
OP
"Beat It"
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OP
"Beat It"
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,774
St. Louis, Missouri area
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Wife and I are starting to explore a turnkey whole house generator install. Getting too old to deal with our Troy-Bilt 5500 rollout. House is 2100 sq ft ranch with unfinished basement walkout. Question is regarding our dual feed HVAC setup. It’s an auto transfer: heat pump over 35 degrees, tanked propane under 35 (500 gallon capacity tank). Generator would be propane fed all year (when power is lost). 2007 Trane equipment. Are any of you familiar with the potential consequences of such interfacing with a whole house? Would likely be in the 22kw to 26kw range. I have pending on site appointments with both Generac and Kohler. My first contacts with both seem to be in the dark on such a dual feed setup. All they can really say to is: wait for the on-site analysis. I don’t know anyone who has had such a setup, nor can I find anything online that relates. Thanks for any input. I don’t want to walk myself into trouble on a 15k to 20k investment.
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Re: Whole house generator/ HVAC question
[Re: Cometstorm]
#3155255
06/29/23 01:52 PM
06/29/23 01:52 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,334 Addison Twp, Mi.
RobG
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,334
Addison Twp, Mi.
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Generac and Kohler are the same units. One of them makes it for the other company. I did not go with the whole house unit and saved $4K (about 5 years ago).
We have a well, furnace and about 3/4 of our 2400 sq. foot home on the generator. 2 fridges and a freezer included. It is a Generac 10kW unit and we have no issues at all.
Be advised, - a service contract is not needed. The installer wants $300+ for a yearly oil change and plugs/air filter. Parts on amazon run around $30 plus 1.6 quarts of synthetic oil.
I am not rich...but I get off my ass everyday to make sure I am not broke!
Can we get the Mexican cartels to help us with our supply chain issues? They don't seem to have any trouble getting stuff from one place to another.
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Re: Whole house generator/ HVAC question
[Re: RobG]
#3155297
06/29/23 03:36 PM
06/29/23 03:36 PM
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 5,470 Michigan
oldjonny
Don't argue with me.
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Don't argue with me.
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 5,470
Michigan
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Generac and Kohler are the same units. One of them makes it for the other company. I did not go with the whole house unit and saved $4K (about 5 years ago).
We have a well, furnace and about 3/4 of our 2400 sq. foot home on the generator. 2 fridges and a freezer included. It is a Generac 10kW unit and we have no issues at all.
Be advised, - a service contract is not needed. The installer wants $300+ for a yearly oil change and plugs/air filter. Parts on amazon run around $30 plus 1.6 quarts of synthetic oil. Unless something has changed REAL lately, this is not true. I have a Generac and my buddy has a Kohler and there is NOTHING even similar. Kohler has a better following from a reliability perspective, while Generac is the sales leader mostly because they do EVERYTHING on the total cheap. I have a history with Generac and their 'cheapness' with failure of units.
Never, ever argue with an IDIOT. They will drag you to their level and then beat you with their years of experience
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Re: Whole house generator/ HVAC question
[Re: oldjonny]
#3155309
06/29/23 04:30 PM
06/29/23 04:30 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,737 North Dakota
6PakBee
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,737
North Dakota
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The largest factor for sizing a standby generator is what loads you want to simultaneously support. (Duh) Your heating system is just another load to be considered. Of the two modes, I would guess the heat pump would be the higher of the two and would be the load you would use. Just a caution, one of my friends has a generator in the 26 KW range and at over 130 gal/hr of propane at full load, he upgraded to a 1000 gallon tank from a 500 gallon tank. You would have to run the numbers as to what you think your actual loads would be and the duration of the loads. You can do a lot of this yourself with the equipment specifications and a clock. I don't know how your weather is or how reliable your propane supplier is but where I live you need to prepare for at least a week without power if it all goes to hell.
"We live in a time when intelligent people are being silenced so that stupid people won't be offended".
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Re: Whole house generator/ HVAC question
[Re: oldjonny]
#3155437
06/29/23 10:37 PM
06/29/23 10:37 PM
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,955 WI
Dcuda69
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,955
WI
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Generac and Kohler are the same units. One of them makes it for the other company. I did not go with the whole house unit and saved $4K (about 5 years ago).
We have a well, furnace and about 3/4 of our 2400 sq. foot home on the generator. 2 fridges and a freezer included. It is a Generac 10kW unit and we have no issues at all.
Be advised, - a service contract is not needed. The installer wants $300+ for a yearly oil change and plugs/air filter. Parts on amazon run around $30 plus 1.6 quarts of synthetic oil. Unless something has changed REAL lately, this is not true. I have a Generac and my buddy has a Kohler and there is NOTHING even similar. While I'm no expert ,I have to believe this is correct. Mainly because Generac headquarters is about 2 miles down the road from me and Kohler is up in ...well Kohler. My buddy was a field service tech for Kohler for years.....he didn't have anything to do with Generac.
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Re: Whole house generator/ HVAC question
[Re: 340Cuda]
#3155660
06/30/23 07:32 PM
06/30/23 07:32 PM
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Joined: May 2019
Posts: 6,291 nowhere
Sniper
master
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master
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 6,291
nowhere
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Seeing how the generator will just be standing in for utility power I don't see how the heat pump would act any differently when on generator then on utility power.
Let us know if you find out anything different. This is the answer. Everything downstream of the transfer switch won't know what is feeding it. I deal with industrial and commercial sized uninterruptible power supplies for a living and we interface between utility and generator power using transfer switches all the time, the load doesn't care in a properly setup system. Just match voltage, frequency and phase rotation, if three phase, and you are good to go.
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Re: Whole house generator/ HVAC question
[Re: Sniper]
#3156504
07/03/23 11:42 AM
07/03/23 11:42 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,275 Morrow, OH
markz528
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,275
Morrow, OH
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Seeing how the generator will just be standing in for utility power I don't see how the heat pump would act any differently when on generator then on utility power.
Let us know if you find out anything different. This is the answer. Everything downstream of the transfer switch won't know what is feeding it. I deal with industrial and commercial sized uninterruptible power supplies for a living and we interface between utility and generator power using transfer switches all the time, the load doesn't care in a properly setup system. Just match voltage, frequency and phase rotation, if three phase, and you are good to go. My heat pump won’t run on my generator. Immediately throws an error. It’s one of them super high efficiency units that is run by a computer.
67 Coronet 500 9.610 @ 139.20 mph 67 Coronet 500 (street car) 14.82 @ 94 mph 69 GTX (clone) - build in progress......
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Re: Whole house generator/ HVAC question
[Re: Cometstorm]
#3156517
07/03/23 12:30 PM
07/03/23 12:30 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,899 Rio Linda, CA
John_Kunkel
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,899
Rio Linda, CA
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FWIW, I have a 9500kw (peaks 12,500kw) standby generator that powers a sub panel through a transfer switch. With a clamp-on amp meter I measured the amp draw of my 3.5 ton A/C unit...at startup the meter spikes to 81 amps and then settles down to a little over 10 amps running.
On generator power, the generator noticeably bogs at A/C startup but quickly recovers and handles the load. This test was done in mild weather, don't know how it'll work during a heat wave...amp draw might be higher in hot weather.
The INTERNET, the MISinformation superhighway
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Re: Whole house generator/ HVAC question
[Re: markz528]
#3156686
07/03/23 08:38 PM
07/03/23 08:38 PM
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Joined: May 2019
Posts: 6,291 nowhere
Sniper
master
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master
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 6,291
nowhere
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Seeing how the generator will just be standing in for utility power I don't see how the heat pump would act any differently when on generator then on utility power.
Let us know if you find out anything different. This is the answer. Everything downstream of the transfer switch won't know what is feeding it. I deal with industrial and commercial sized uninterruptible power supplies for a living and we interface between utility and generator power using transfer switches all the time, the load doesn't care in a properly setup system. Just match voltage, frequency and phase rotation, if three phase, and you are good to go. My heat pump won’t run on my generator. Immediately throws an error. It’s one of them super high efficiency units that is run by a computer. Then it's not installed properly, probably the neutral/ground.
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Re: Whole house generator/ HVAC question
[Re: John_Kunkel]
#3156687
07/03/23 08:39 PM
07/03/23 08:39 PM
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Joined: May 2019
Posts: 6,291 nowhere
Sniper
master
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master
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 6,291
nowhere
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FWIW, I have a 9500kw (peaks 12,500kw) standby generator that powers a sub panel through a transfer switch. With a clamp-on amp meter I measured the amp draw of my 3.5 ton A/C unit...at startup the meter spikes to 81 amps and then settles down to a little over 10 amps running.
On generator power, the generator noticeably bogs at A/C startup but quickly recovers and handles the load. This test was done in mild weather, don't know how it'll work during a heat wave...amp draw might be higher in hot weather. A soft start would help
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Re: Whole house generator/ HVAC question
[Re: Sniper]
#3156701
07/03/23 09:18 PM
07/03/23 09:18 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,275 Morrow, OH
markz528
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,275
Morrow, OH
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Then it's not installed properly, probably the neutral/ground. No - its the stupid computer. And I mean its stupid. I have had tons of fun with it. It is really a bad a idea to buy a heat pump that takes all functionality away from you and the stupid computer makes all the decisions for you. And don't get me started on the thermostat control scheme. And the code it threw was not in any manual I could find.
67 Coronet 500 9.610 @ 139.20 mph 67 Coronet 500 (street car) 14.82 @ 94 mph 69 GTX (clone) - build in progress......
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Re: Whole house generator/ HVAC question
[Re: Sniper]
#3156856
07/04/23 12:38 PM
07/04/23 12:38 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,899 Rio Linda, CA
John_Kunkel
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,899
Rio Linda, CA
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FWIW, I have a 9500kw (peaks 12,500kw) standby generator that powers a sub panel through a transfer switch. With a clamp-on amp meter I measured the amp draw of my 3.5 ton A/C unit...at startup the meter spikes to 81 amps and then settles down to a little over 10 amps running.
On generator power, the generator noticeably bogs at A/C startup but quickly recovers and handles the load. This test was done in mild weather, don't know how it'll work during a heat wave...amp draw might be higher in hot weather. A soft start would help Had one of those on a previous unit, it malfunctioned and kept zapping even after the compressor was running...never again.
The INTERNET, the MISinformation superhighway
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Re: Whole house generator/ HVAC question
[Re: markz528]
#3156857
07/04/23 12:40 PM
07/04/23 12:40 PM
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Joined: May 2019
Posts: 6,291 nowhere
Sniper
master
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master
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 6,291
nowhere
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Then it's not installed properly, probably the neutral/ground. No - its the stupid computer. And I mean its stupid. I have had tons of fun with it. It is really a bad a idea to buy a heat pump that takes all functionality away from you and the stupid computer makes all the decisions for you. And don't get me started on the thermostat control scheme. And the code it threw was not in any manual I could find. Did you ground your generator? My furnace did the same thing till I ran a ground for my generator. I do this for a living, there is something wrong with your installation or possibly the frequency/voltage control of your generator. It is not the computer on your heat pump.
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