Re: [b]727 Question[/b]
[Re: savoyracer]
#315436
05/11/09 09:49 PM
05/11/09 09:49 PM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 10,542
BROOK PARK, OH
WILD BILL
Senior Member of the Junior Dragster Club
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Senior Member of the Junior Dragster Club
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 10,542
BROOK PARK, OH
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Starting in first is only a problem if you have a VB w/o LBA. 
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Re: [b]727 Question[/b]
[Re: Rodder]
#315440
05/11/09 10:04 PM
05/11/09 10:04 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,697
Renton Wa
topfueldart
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,697
Renton Wa
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Quote:
Yes I have tried starting in second and I can do it, but its kind of poochy, and pushes pretty bad. I'll try the first to second deal and see how that works. I heard the problem is when you let up in first gear that some thing snaps.
Letting off the throttle rapidly and then matting it again in low gear with NO low band apply (LBA) (IE: old Cheetah RMVB's) will allow the motor to make a run at the sprag. Spinning the sprag in the case turns front drum at like 2.2x's engine RPM.. So if you do that at 6k, the drum goes to over 13000, and KABOOM.
The stock valvebody applies the low band, making it much more difficult to spin the sprag. I've started every burnout I've ever done in about 10 Mopars, in 1st gear, and shifted to 2nd without lifting.
11.48 @ 120 with a 1.80 60' 318, stock 1.88 heads, stock 904, Pump Gas, 13 lbs of boost.
9.94 @ 134, 318 on pump gas, 14 lbs w/ Eddies, transbrake 727, 3600 lbs, 3.54 gear and 28's.
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Re: [b]727 Question[/b]
[Re: Rodder]
#315442
05/11/09 10:28 PM
05/11/09 10:28 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Quote:
I have a fairly new turbo manual valve body in mine, does that help or not? I have a high 11 car and I just do a short spin to mostly clean the tires off. I'll try the first to second deal this weekend.
Like it was said the on off on in 1st is the problem.
Just start in 2nd if you want, just in case there is a
problem. If you cant spin them in 2nd in water you already
have a problem. I use high gear only. You are trying
to clean the tire and raise the temp of them about
25*
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Re: [b]727 Question[/b]
[Re: topfueldart]
#315443
05/11/09 10:53 PM
05/11/09 10:53 PM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,595
On the south side of Nowhere
S/ST 3040
master
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master
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,595
On the south side of Nowhere
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Quote:
The stock valvebody applies the low band, making it much more difficult to spin the sprag.
Stock valve bodies only apply the low/reverse band if you pull the shifter down to 1st. If the
shifter is in 2nd or Drive, the low/reverse band is not applied. Only the over-running clutch
(sprag) holds the drum in these 2 positions. That way 2nd gear comes on by simply applying the
front band, instead of apply front band/release rear band.(cleaner shift without the rear band
being involved)
1-2 burnout would be acceptable with non-LBA valve body as long as you "have it on the rug" at
the shift. No coasting in low gear either.
Sorry for the Torqueflite lecture.
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Re: [b]727 Question[/b]
[Re: S/ST 3040]
#315444
05/11/09 11:03 PM
05/11/09 11:03 PM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 10,542
BROOK PARK, OH
WILD BILL
Senior Member of the Junior Dragster Club
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Senior Member of the Junior Dragster Club
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 10,542
BROOK PARK, OH
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For the record I've done many a first gear burnout w/o a LBA and never had a problem. Just get into second before the tires bite.
As Mr. P said, any 11 sec car should have no problem doing a burn in 2nd. Even my wifes 13.00 car with no linelock can get them smoking starting in second.
And no, I dont start in first now.
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Re: [b]727 Question[/b]
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#315445
05/11/09 11:19 PM
05/11/09 11:19 PM
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 446
oregon
savoyracer
mopar
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mopar
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 446
oregon
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Quote:
Quote:
I have a fairly new turbo manual valve body in mine, does that help or not? I have a high 11 car and I just do a short spin to mostly clean the tires off. I'll try the first to second deal this weekend.
Like it was said the on off on in 1st is the problem.
Just start in 2nd if you want, just in case there is a
problem. If you cant spin them in 2nd in water you already
have a problem. I use high gear only. You are trying
to clean the tire and raise the temp of them about
25*
...........i am probably smokin too much,  25 degrees sounds like such a small increase in tire temp. I have been thinking that I am a little overboard on the burnout,  especially when I have to buy a set a year. 
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Re: [b]727 Question[/b]
[Re: savoyracer]
#315446
05/11/09 11:31 PM
05/11/09 11:31 PM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 10,542
BROOK PARK, OH
WILD BILL
Senior Member of the Junior Dragster Club
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Senior Member of the Junior Dragster Club
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 10,542
BROOK PARK, OH
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I once heard that the ideal tire temp was 19 degrees higher than the track temp. Can't remeber where I heard it and have no idea how true it is.
Anyone  
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Re: [b]727 Question[/b]
[Re: S/ST 3040]
#315448
05/12/09 02:16 PM
05/12/09 02:16 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,697
Renton Wa
topfueldart
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,697
Renton Wa
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Quote:
Quote:
The stock valvebody applies the low band, making it much more difficult to spin the sprag.
Stock valve bodies only apply the low/reverse band if you pull the shifter down to 1st. If the
shifter is in 2nd or Drive, the low/reverse band is not applied. Only the over-running clutch
(sprag) holds the drum in these 2 positions. That way 2nd gear comes on by simply applying the
front band, instead of apply front band/release rear band.(cleaner shift without the rear band
being involved)
1-2 burnout would be acceptable with non-LBA valve body as long as you "have it on the rug" at
the shift. No coasting in low gear either.
Sorry for the Torqueflite lecture.
This is true... I just assumed everyone knew we were talking about being in manual low, and not just doing burnouts in drive... Breakaway low (trans in D) doesnt apply the low band in a factory VB, but manual low (1st) does. I would never do a burnout in Drive anyways, but maybe thats just me...
11.48 @ 120 with a 1.80 60' 318, stock 1.88 heads, stock 904, Pump Gas, 13 lbs of boost.
9.94 @ 134, 318 on pump gas, 14 lbs w/ Eddies, transbrake 727, 3600 lbs, 3.54 gear and 28's.
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Re: [b]727 Question[/b]
[Re: Rodder]
#315450
05/12/09 03:32 PM
05/12/09 03:32 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,932
NC
440Jim
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,932
NC
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Quote:
I have a fairly new turbo manual valve body in mine,
You have to check to see if it is a LBA or not. Technique depends on the exact valvebody used, so all other "lurkers" should post their own topic for specific advice. One size does not fit all. Automatic valve bodies need more care, they can automatically downshift to 1st after the tires grab.
For a true manual valve body, I prefer to start in 2nd. But if you have LBA, you could start in 1st and then upshift after they start spinning, but why bother?
Quote:
whack it to get them spinning
True...
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