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Re: 528-541 stock block [Re: GY3] #3151989
06/16/23 09:46 AM
06/16/23 09:46 AM
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Houston, Texas
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sean1970 Offline OP
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I just do not have much experience with the Mopar stuff. I have made 1390 on a stock gm block before no issues. My car is a s/s old car 70 challenger. maybe hit some 1/8 mile stuff and street drive. Was thinking E85 for fuel. I appreciate all the feed back. I have seen many up[grade the caps and use a girdle.

Re: 528-541 stock block [Re: sean1970] #3152014
06/16/23 11:31 AM
06/16/23 11:31 AM
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So. Burlington, Vt.
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fast68plymouth Offline
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Personally, I wouldn’t even attempt to build a 900-950hp engine out of a stock Mopar BB.

But if an aftermarket block simply isn’t in the budget, and you’re intent on pushing forward anyway....... dont even bother asking the question.
The only way to know how many passes the block will hold up is to build it and see.


68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
Re: 528-541 stock block [Re: fast68plymouth] #3152017
06/16/23 11:47 AM
06/16/23 11:47 AM
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Houston, Texas
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sean1970 Offline OP
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I just found an aluminum block! so lucked out. not going to take a chance probably build a 605 now.

Re: 528-541 stock block [Re: sean1970] #3152020
06/16/23 11:55 AM
06/16/23 11:55 AM
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Keymar, MD
DusterKid Offline
top fuel
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I think 650-700HP and keeping the rpms low is the key to making a stock block live. Anymore than that you need an aftermarket block IMO. It's not a matter of if, but when the block will fail. I do have a buddy that built a 528/543 (can't remember which) using a 440 source stroker kit. So far so good with it, but probably has only 20-30 passes on it so far.

Re: 528-541 stock block [Re: DusterKid] #3152058
06/16/23 02:04 PM
06/16/23 02:04 PM
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Posts: 4,576
Motor City
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6PKRTSE Offline
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I wouldn't go above 505" with a stock block and keep it around or under 7000 rpm.


1963 Belvedere 440 Max Wedge Tribute
1970 Charger R/T S.E. 440 Six Pack
1970 Challenger R/T, 528 Hemi
1970 Charger 500 S.E. 440 4 BBL
1970 Plymouth Road Runner 383
1974 Chrysler New Yorker 440
1996 2500 RAM 488 V-10 4X4
2004 3500 Dually Cummins 4x4
2012 Challenger R/T Classic.
Re: 528-541 stock block [Re: 6PKRTSE] #3152063
06/16/23 02:25 PM
06/16/23 02:25 PM
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nielsville, minn.
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quickd100 Offline
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I think 600-650hp is about as much as I would trust a GOOD factory block. And, I would keep the rpm down and the BIGGEST thing would be to keep it out of DETONATION!!!

Re: 528-541 stock block [Re: quickd100] #3152065
06/16/23 02:29 PM
06/16/23 02:29 PM
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north of coder
moparx Offline
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Originally Posted by quickd100
I'd build the 543 but I wouldn't be building something for maximum hp. I'd rather build a BIG mild motor, no need for insane rpm no need for big compression. Just a big torque monster.




i wonder how something like that would react using a pair of long rams and a couple of the small thermo-quads ? work
beer

Re: 528-541 stock block [Re: moparx] #3152092
06/16/23 05:02 PM
06/16/23 05:02 PM
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nielsville, minn.
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quickd100 Offline
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Originally Posted by moparx
Originally Posted by quickd100
I'd build the 543 but I wouldn't be building something for maximum hp. I'd rather build a BIG mild motor, no need for insane rpm no need for big compression. Just a big torque monster.




i wonder how something like that would react using a pair of long rams and a couple of the small thermo-quads ? work
beer

Don't think I haven't thought about it. It might a torque monster.

Re: 528-541 stock block [Re: sean1970] #3152168
06/16/23 10:01 PM
06/16/23 10:01 PM
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Oregon
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AndyF Offline
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Originally Posted by sean1970
I just found an aluminum block! so lucked out. not going to take a chance probably build a 605 now.


Congrats on finding a block. Now you'll need to decide on the heads. Only a handful of BBM heads that are capable of feeding a 605 well enough to make 900+ hp.

Re: 528-541 stock block [Re: AndyF] #3152183
06/16/23 11:07 PM
06/16/23 11:07 PM
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Houston, Texas
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sean1970 Offline OP
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I was thinking b1 heads have slick rick do them up. A uy contacted me about an iron block but I have no idea what it is? P5007628 made in canada by cummings said it has a 4.38 bore. not a bad price either $2,200.00

Re: 528-541 stock block [Re: moparx] #3152209
06/17/23 02:47 AM
06/17/23 02:47 AM
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Bend,OR USA
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Cab_Burge Offline
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Originally Posted by moparx
Originally Posted by quickd100
I'd build the 543 but I wouldn't be building something for maximum hp. I'd rather build a BIG mild motor, no need for insane rpm no need for big compression. Just a big torque monster.




i wonder how something like that would react using a pair of long rams and a couple of the small thermo-quads ? work
beer
Probably horribly down twocents shruggy


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: 528-541 stock block [Re: Cab_Burge] #3152224
06/17/23 07:57 AM
06/17/23 07:57 AM
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nielsville, minn.
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quickd100 Offline
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Originally Posted by Cab_Burge
Originally Posted by moparx
Originally Posted by quickd100
I'd build the 543 but I wouldn't be building something for maximum hp. I'd rather build a BIG mild motor, no need for insane rpm no need for big compression. Just a big torque monster.




i wonder how something like that would react using a pair of long rams and a couple of the small thermo-quads ? work
beer
Probably horribly down twocents shruggy


Actually they should really work nice. The only reason I didn't go that route was I didn't want to permanently alter a rare set of ShortRams.

Re: 528-541 stock block [Re: quickd100] #3152304
06/17/23 01:41 PM
06/17/23 01:41 PM
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Bend,OR USA
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Cab_Burge Offline
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Originally Posted by quickd100
Originally Posted by Cab_Burge
Originally Posted by moparx
Originally Posted by quickd100
I'd build the 543 but I wouldn't be building something for maximum hp. I'd rather build a BIG mild motor, no need for insane rpm no need for big compression. Just a big torque monster.




i wonder how something like that would react using a pair of long rams and a couple of the small thermo-quads ? work
beer
Probably horribly down twocents shruggy


Actually they should really work nice. The only reason I didn't go that route was I didn't want to permanently alter a rare set of ShortRams.

Theory is one thing, reality can be completely opposite when it comes to results, but if you don't test and experiment you'll never learn what does work and what doesn't wrench up work
Which set of those manifolds do you have, the short divider, medium or the completely long ones found on the 1959 sets work?
I've never ran any of them or worked on any motors with them on but I have heard from some old timers that did and they would say there is a noticeable difference in performance between those three different intake divider lengths shruggyconfused

Last edited by Cab_Burge; 06/17/23 01:42 PM.

Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: 528-541 stock block [Re: Cab_Burge] #3152326
06/17/23 03:04 PM
06/17/23 03:04 PM
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nielsville, minn.
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quickd100 Offline
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There are only 2 different manifolds, the more common Longram and the hp version the shortram. They both have the same length runners but the shortram has its runners only isolated from each other for about 12". The longrams have each runner isolated their intire length. On the 413 the Longram version was rated at 375hp&495ftlbs. The shortram motors depending on the year were rated at 390 or 400 hp and torque figures vary some literature stated 465ftlbs.
The Thermoquad carbs could be easily setup and tuned for these manifolds but I don't want to permanently alter a rare set of manifolds.
Nicks garage U-Tube channel did a 63' shortram motor for a customer but they either missed on the cam selection or installed it at the wrong centerline as all they got out of a 426ci motor was 375hp&501 ft lbs.. The shortram motors were very fussy on the installed centerline and the factory used a special cam timing gear 2° retarded.
My 446 Shortram motor made 429hp@5150&544ftlbs@3800, it made 512 ftlbs@2500. All the pulls on mine were made at 34° timing, in hindsight I should have bumped the timing a few more degrees. Also I didn't have a windage tray installed either. These 2 items should bump the hp&tq up a bit more.
While dyno testing the motor I tried an M-1 single plane, a Weiand Tunnelram, and the Shortrams, the Shortram manifolds made the least Hp but buried the other two with their torque curves. Installed in my W-150 the ShortRams have explosive response.

Re: 528-541 stock block [Re: sean1970] #3152347
06/17/23 04:20 PM
06/17/23 04:20 PM
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Oregon
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AndyF Offline
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Originally Posted by sean1970
I was thinking b1 heads have slick rick do them up. A uy contacted me about an iron block but I have no idea what it is? P5007628 made in canada by cummings said it has a 4.38 bore. not a bad price either $2,200.00


B1 heads should be able to make 900 hp if they are done right and if everything else matches up properly. Start a new thread when you're ready to pick the heads since I'm sure you'll get a lot of feedback on the subject

There are a lot of custom parts with the B1 heads so you might check out the 572-13 heads from Indy.

Last edited by AndyF; 06/17/23 04:21 PM.
Re: 528-541 stock block [Re: quickd100] #3152530
06/18/23 05:03 PM
06/18/23 05:03 PM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 19,521
north of coder
moparx Offline
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Originally Posted by quickd100
There are only 2 different manifolds, the more common Longram and the hp version the shortram. They both have the same length runners but the shortram has its runners only isolated from each other for about 12". The longrams have each runner isolated their intire length. On the 413 the Longram version was rated at 375hp&495ftlbs. The shortram motors depending on the year were rated at 390 or 400 hp and torque figures vary some literature stated 465ftlbs.
The Thermoquad carbs could be easily setup and tuned for these manifolds but I don't want to permanently alter a rare set of manifolds.
Nicks garage U-Tube channel did a 63' shortram motor for a customer but they either missed on the cam selection or installed it at the wrong centerline as all they got out of a 426ci motor was 375hp&501 ft lbs.. The shortram motors were very fussy on the installed centerline and the factory used a special cam timing gear 2° retarded.
My 446 Shortram motor made 429hp@5150&544ftlbs@3800, it made 512 ftlbs@2500. All the pulls on mine were made at 34° timing, in hindsight I should have bumped the timing a few more degrees. Also I didn't have a windage tray installed either. These 2 items should bump the hp&tq up a bit more.
While dyno testing the motor I tried an M-1 single plane, a Weiand Tunnelram, and the Shortrams, the Shortram manifolds made the least Hp but buried the other two with their torque curves. Installed in my W-150 the ShortRams have explosive response.



my intakes are the common, full runner divided, longrams.
the heat stove on the bottom of each are corroded from exhaust gasses, and need repaired.
as to using the T-quads, i was just going to use the commonly available adapters, and blend the adapters to the intakes carb flanges, thus not needing to do anything to the manifolds themselves.
i have an article on how to convert the longrams into the short versions, but after reading the article, it seems to be quite a bit of work for possibly little, if any, gain.
and speaking of cam selection, what would be the best choice of lift, duration, and lobe separation as well as installed centerline, to use these intakes on a 446-528 cubic inch engine ?
beer

Re: 528-541 stock block [Re: moparx] #3152532
06/18/23 05:16 PM
06/18/23 05:16 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,189
PA.
pittsburghracer Online work
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Do you guys really think this intake is the way to go on a 900-950 horsepower build. Maybe More like a show cruise piece wouldn’t you think.


1970 Duster
Edelbrock headed 408
5.984@112.52
422 Indy headed small block
5.982@112.56 mph
9.42@138.27

Livin and lovin life one day at a time




Re: 528-541 stock block [Re: AndyF] #3152535
06/18/23 05:31 PM
06/18/23 05:31 PM
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Posts: 104
Houston, Texas
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sean1970 Offline OP
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I did not even think of Indy heads. Thanks for that.

Re: 528-541 stock block [Re: sean1970] #3152549
06/18/23 07:53 PM
06/18/23 07:53 PM
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Posts: 9,863
MI, usa
dvw Offline
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Using that intake will be like feeding the heads through a drink straw.. It'' probably peak at 4900.
I do not think its a wise choice. Even a Max Wedge crossram would kill it.
Doug

Re: 528-541 stock block [Re: dvw] #3152556
06/18/23 08:30 PM
06/18/23 08:30 PM
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birdtracker Offline
super stock
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DVW is spot on. Single four Indy intake. Ported on both ends. Or B-1. The choice is yours. Birdtracker

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