My instinct is to agree with Al and it's timing.

Idling when restricting the carb makes me wonder how it could possibly be so lean otherwise?

So, I don't know but agree with others that I would start with verifying timing mark.

thanks for all help.when i can take a weeks vacation off i will pull the motor and check timing.i can do it in car because where the rack is at in front of the balancer.so motor must be pulled.such a very bad let down.and more set backs.at my age of 62 i just want to go racing once more in my life

That tells you it's really lean. Look for a vacuum leak. Did Dominic recently work on the carb?

Whenever we have a new engine that shows signs of being lean (won't idle on idle circuit, red headers, runs like chit) I grab a can of crab cleaner and spray the intake mating area and carb base. You will know right away with the engine speed change.

Joe

UPDATE,UPDATE.decided to pull timing cover to rule out cam timing .had to remove rack and pinion.with cam gear dot pointed down..crank key is in the 4 degree advance hole at 2 o clock,.o degree is at 4 o clock.should the crank key be pointing up when the cam dot is at bottom

Rotate the engine 360 degrees and the cam dot will be on the top.


Joe

You really need to confirm the cam install with a dial gauge and a degree wheel. It's rare but stuff can be machined wrong unfortunately.

Someone has sent you down a rabbit hole, I had an engine that the cam was retarded 2 teeth (28.8 degrees) and it idled ok but ran like poo. The fact that you add more fuel (covering the cab with your hand) and it runs, tells you, you nave an A/F issue.

this right here I agree with.

And yes the key should be at 2 o clock when at TDC, and the corresponding cam timing dots line up.

Its pretty easy to check if its timing. With the engine running turn the distributor. If it runs better, headers stop glowing theres your sign. Then you can worry about the other issues. Seen it MANY times and it has always been a timing issue. You won't hurt the engine if the ignition timing get advanced to 40-or 50 degrees at idle. There is no load on the engine at idle. Id be willing to bet its off 14-20 degrees from where you think it is. But if you advance it and it gets better you have an answer, that costs nothing and takes minutes to try.

You seem to have another issue being a vacuum leak. Gonna have to be a HUGE leak to turn 8 headers red, not just a random cylinder or two. Think about it...The headers being red is 99% of the time from fuel being burned in the header rather than the chamber, they dont get that hot from a LACK of fuel

I had a new Max Wedge 440 bracket motor do the same thing when breaking it in at night, enriching the idle mixture cure it

maybee i went down a rabbit hole or not.having peace of mind the cam timing was done right is worth taking it apart.so at this point turn the motor so can gear dot is on top.where should bottom gear be at.then i can go back together get it running and enrich the mixture screws

Get some close up pics of the lower timing gear. Need to see the marks

If it is 4 degrees advance, there is a different mark than the "0" degree dot. The dot on the cam and the "mark" will line up when the mark is closest to the cam, the cam dot will either be on the top or bottom, but it will be in line with the crank and cam. Like FastMOp said, need CLEAR pictures of the crank gear.

ou seem to have another issue being a vacuum leak. Gonna have to be a HUGE leak to turn 8 headers red, not just a random cylinder or two. Think about it...The headers being red is 99% of the time from fuel being burned in the header rather than the chamber, they dont get that hot from a LACK of fuel

I AGREE COMPLETELY WITH THIS STATEMENT. ID BE THE CAM IS INSTALLED RETARDED AND THE CHARGE IS BURNING IN THE HEADER, NOT THE CHAMBER. I ADVANCED MY CAM AND THAT SOLVED MY PROBLEM.

I have 12 BB Mopar Cloyes 3 bolt timing sets be marked wrong on the crankshaft keyways, they were assbackwards, the triangle marks were retarded and the rectangular marks were advanced some of those crank gears were off a half a dot also
the only way to truly know where the intake lobe centers are is to degree the cam.
Do not ASSUME anything when it comes to any and all after market race parts these days, trust but VERIFY

the crank gear is a 7 way with the key in the 4a slot,so there is markings on the outside of crank gear with the settings and dots to line up.but there is a single dot at 0 that looks like the cam gear.after looking up the part number for top gear its a pro gear timning set.so i went on there website.the tr series shows a 3 bolt with a 3 way crank gear.the 4000 series shows the only one with a 9 way crank gear but a single bolt cam gear do agree with timing.i talked to thumper.he says his carbs are ready to go out of the box and no settings needed.i never did find nothing wrong with the carb and the intake gaskets is correct.i emailed pro gear see if they can send me instructions

Ignition timing ...I know it's frustrating but if just had taken-in the good advice that you sought when you posted, you'd have known quickly as has been mentioned. This still is an opportunity to learn for many.

I found this a couple years ago while looking for info on a Progear set.

varrunner,thats what i have.its installed 4 degrees advance.but as the chain stretches it will go back to 0.i went on you tube and looked at vids.the cam timing is installed corectly.i checked the intake gasket.only thing left is thumpers carb.i pm him on facebook.he wont give me no turning advice other than is carbs is ready to run out of the box.this carb was never ran or fired