Moparts

headers glowing red at idle

Posted By: dart games

headers glowing red at idle - 05/27/23 07:57 PM

i just brought a 400/512 engine big block.everything is new.timing at 34-36 locked,holley 1050 brand new carb from thumper.using 91 pump gas 10.5 compression.i went over this so many times..,check valve adjustment,took apart thumpers carbindy intake,total flow 270 heads.everything brand new.7 psi fuel pressure.engine wont idle no matter what i do to the carb.and headers glowing red.i brought this motor of hoping to go racing one more time in my life.i have that red 71 dart for sale in the for sale section.couldnt sell the car so i got a motor for it.now have 25k in this car.and all this
Posted By: GTX MATT

Re: headers glowing red at idle - 05/27/23 08:15 PM

Id guess you have a bad vacuum leak somewhere if the timing is right.

Are you sure the timing mark is correct?
Posted By: dragon

Re: headers glowing red at idle - 05/27/23 08:25 PM

Check plug wires even if they are new ohm them had bad wires right out of box and make sure when installing the plugs you didn't bump one and close the gap up
Posted By: Al_Alguire

Re: headers glowing red at idle - 05/27/23 08:29 PM

You timing is retarded.....Give it some more initial advance and that will go away
Posted By: fast68plymouth

Re: headers glowing red at idle - 05/27/23 10:02 PM

Originally Posted by Al_Alguire
You timing is retarded.....Give it some more initial advance and that will go away


Quote
timing at 34-36 locked


I’d be verifying everything about the timing was correct(and that the distributor is indeed locked)...... including the timing light.
Posted By: dart games

Re: headers glowing red at idle - 05/27/23 10:30 PM

fast 68.i went over everything for days.its set and dist is locked.plug wires not crossed.its hitting on alll 8.wont idle have to keep reving it to keep it running
Posted By: dart games

Re: headers glowing red at idle - 05/27/23 10:32 PM

al how do i get it initial advance if its locked.yes fast 68 used a timing light
Posted By: fast68plymouth

Re: headers glowing red at idle - 05/27/23 10:34 PM

Have you tried doing a compression test on a couple cylinders?

Verified the timing mark on the damper is correct?
Posted By: Moparteacher

Re: headers glowing red at idle - 05/27/23 10:41 PM

Use a piston stop to confirm TDC mark on the dampner prior to using a timing light. Try another timing light. Just because everything is new doesn't mean it's good. You may want to smike the intake and confirm no vacuum leaks.
Posted By: Al_Alguire

Re: headers glowing red at idle - 05/27/23 10:57 PM

If it is ALL the tubes glowing it is TIMING period. You might wanna check and make ABSOLUTELY sure its not 180 degrees out as well. TDC on COMPRESSION stroke. Also that the distributor cap is truly on number one at TDC. If its ALL the headers its timing.
Posted By: dart games

Re: headers glowing red at idle - 05/27/23 11:04 PM

al if it was a 180 out it would back fire though carb aqnd not run at all,yes all headers glowing red.have to keep giving it gas to stay running.and this is a brand new build
Posted By: dart games

Re: headers glowing red at idle - 05/27/23 11:08 PM

fast 68.will do a compression test on it sunday
Posted By: AndyF

Re: headers glowing red at idle - 05/27/23 11:48 PM

Most likely a timing problem but try a different carb just because that is easy to do. Could also be the cam timing if you didn't build the engine.
Posted By: dart games

Re: headers glowing red at idle - 05/28/23 12:10 AM

andy,i dont have another carb to try.you might be on to something with cam timing
Posted By: IROC78

Re: headers glowing red at idle - 05/28/23 12:54 AM

I just updated one of my 440's to an electronic ignition. I had never previously had a timing light on it as it ran great from the moment I purchased the car. Put in the new distributor and couldnt get it to run right without putting an excessive amount of timing in it. After checking to make sure the balancer hadn't spun, I looked at the timing tab. I had a couple other big block covers around, so I laid one on the bench with the TDC mark at 6 oclock, put a piece of masking tape around the balancer and marked TDC on the balancer and the 0 degree mark on the tab. I did the same thing with the engine in the car I was working on. I removed both pieces of masking tape, laid them flat, and the distance between the marks was over 1 1/2" from one to the other. It equated to a 22 degree difference so I ended up having to put a dial back light on it. Total timing reads 57 degrees, but in actuality is 35 degrees when accounting for the 22 degree difference. At first glance the tabs looked to be in the same place, but clearly they weren't. It took me awhile to figure out what was going on, but as someone else previously mentioned the timing tab could be mis located and not be overly obvious at first glance.
Posted By: B3422W5

Re: headers glowing red at idle - 05/28/23 01:22 AM

Double check floats aren’t too high
Posted By: FastmOp

Re: headers glowing red at idle - 05/28/23 01:56 AM

Tdc is easy to check. I feel like it's timing but a vacume leak could be helping the problem. .
Posted By: dart games

Re: headers glowing red at idle - 05/28/23 09:18 AM

has see through floats glasses.its ok,has stock timing cover and tab.has brand new,ati damper.i checked compression ok,and tdc.when you google the problem which i have many times trying to find something i over looked.it comes up more the timing is retarded.which andyf made a point on that.i brought a complete engine.i dont know when they installed the timing gear too much retard was put into it.everything checks out on the outside
Posted By: Rodenteliminator

Re: headers glowing red at idle - 05/28/23 11:30 AM

You might as well start from the bottom up, pull the front cover check the crank gear and timing chain alignment there might be an offset key installed the wrong way if they still make them or a multiple key way sprocket installed wrong, find TDC and reset your distributor and double check the lock out and rotor phase. Doug
Posted By: dart games

Re: headers glowing red at idle - 05/28/23 12:36 PM

roden.i went over the lock out and rotor phase a few times at tdc.i understand i will have to pull the front cover.but can get off balancer in car as the rack and pinion is there.engine must come out.at this point im not sure if i will keep this any longer.this drag car will still be for sale.i cant keep on dumping mney in this im maxxed out.i thought i wasw getting a deal as the motor was local and brand new.this car is still for sale roller or as it is with this problem.the car is listed here under race cars.its a red 71 dart drag car car.if i pull the motor it will be in the fall.very much of a let down.THE MORAL OF THE STORY.NEVER TRUST ANYONES WORK
Posted By: birdtracker

Re: headers glowing red at idle - 05/28/23 12:37 PM

loosen distributor and pull it ahead about 1/4 inch and see if the motor runs smoother. I think Al is dead on with timing. Had a truck that the distributor loosened up and vibrated back and exhaust manifolds were glowing red. Birdtracker
Posted By: Tig

Re: headers glowing red at idle - 05/28/23 01:00 PM

My first guess would be ignition timing, then cam timing. Verify both. Let us know when you find the issue.
Posted By: 6PakBee

Re: headers glowing red at idle - 05/28/23 01:22 PM

I'd bet on ignition timing also. Having the distributor locked at a certain figure (34/36 in this case) is NOT the same as initial timing. Think of this for a minute, I would doubt you could even get it started if you had 34 degrees initial timing.
Posted By: Rodenteliminator

Re: headers glowing red at idle - 05/28/23 01:25 PM

Buying one complete have the seller put it on stand and and check as much as possible or if they don’t want to do that start deducting or walk away, it could cost you in the long run. Doug
Posted By: dart games

Re: headers glowing red at idle - 05/28/23 01:31 PM

6 pacbee.i had plenty of drag motors with locked distributors at that timing and worked ok.it fires ok.and revs up ok but cant get to idle no matter what i do to the carb and headers glow red.when that happens i shut it down and let cool
Posted By: 6PakBee

Re: headers glowing red at idle - 05/28/23 01:52 PM

Originally Posted by dart games
6 pacbee.i had plenty of drag motors with locked distributors at that timing and worked ok.it fires ok.and revs up ok but cant get to idle no matter what i do to the carb and headers glow red.when that happens i shut it down and let cool


Don't know what to tell you then. shruggy
Posted By: B1MAXX

Re: headers glowing red at idle - 05/28/23 02:19 PM

back out the mixture screws a 1/4 turn, and see what happens.
Late timing definitely does this but typically not at idle...i mean it would have to be after tdc.
Lean at idle would do it.
Posted By: slantzilla

Re: headers glowing red at idle - 05/28/23 02:26 PM

Could the stock timing cover marks be off with the ATI damper?
Posted By: fast68plymouth

Re: headers glowing red at idle - 05/28/23 02:55 PM

The reason for the compression test was to perhaps shed some light on the cam timing situation.

If it was way low you’d have reason to suspect the cam was retarded.
Posted By: dart games

Re: headers glowing red at idle - 05/28/23 02:56 PM

b1 max i had all 4 screw out at 2 1/2 and did nothing
Posted By: CSK

Re: headers glowing red at idle - 05/28/23 03:23 PM

Make sure the distributor pickup coil is not wired backwards.
Posted By: dart games

Re: headers glowing red at idle - 05/28/23 03:25 PM

SO THIS IS WHAT I BOUGHT.WAS GOING TO USE THE MOTOR IN THE DRAG CAR AND TRANS IN MY STREET CAR,AFTER HAVING PROBLEMS I LOOKED UP THE CAM # 23-000-9.TO LOOK UP WHAT THE VALVES SHOULD BE SET AT.RIGHT NOW WHAT THEY SET IT AT IS 0.15 INTAKE ,020 EXHAUST.ONLY THING I CAN FIND OUT ON CAM NUMBER IS ITS A CAM CORE.SO MUST BE A CUS511 Low Deck Stroker Engine (estimated 650 to 700 HP on Pump Gas):
Built 727 Transmission (New Dynamic 9.5 inch street/strip Converter):

This is a brand new / turn key engine (never been fired). Machine work and short block done by Precision Engines in Granite City, IL.
Why am I selling it? I built this engine to go in a 69 Satelite to be a street/strip car. Before I finished the build I found a good deal on a Hellcat engine, lost my mind
and pulled this engine and trans to do a Hellcat conversion.

Engine Details:
- 400 Cold Weather 230 Block (.030
overbore) - This is strongest Mopar
production block, very hard to come by
as they only made them in the summer
of 1971.
- Molnar Forged Crank and Rods
- Ross Pistons (10.5 to 1 Compression for
pump gas)
- TRICK FLOW 270 HEADS!! (very hard
to find right now) flow 353 cfm on the
intake at .700 inch lift.
- Comp Solid Roller Cam and lifters( see
picture for specs)
- Smith Push Rods
- Harland Sharp Roller Rocker Arm (1.5
ratio)
- Indy Max Wedge Port Intake (4500
flange)
- ATI Harmonic Balancer
- 1020 Holley Dominiator Carb Built by
Dominic at Thumper Carbs (Dominic is
know for building Dominator's that run
well on the street and strip)
- BLP Racing Fuel Log
- MSD Billet Distributor
- Taylor 9MM Fire Power Spark Plug
Wires
- All new or rebuilt front accessories (
has a single serpentine belt running all
accessories including Power Steering
Pump)
- Electric Water Pump
- Hooker Super Comp Headers (For 69
Mopar B Body Chasis). These are
uncoated/painted black.
- Milodon Oil Pan

Transmission:
- Professionally built by Bob Brooks
- AA Transmission Reverse Manual Valve
Body with Low Band Apply
- Billet Steel Drum
- Hardened Pump Gears
- AA Trans 6-bolt Ultimate Sprag
- All other parts are high end and heavy
duty parts build to withstand 700 HP.
- Frank Lupo's Dynamic Converter: 9.5
Inch RACE/STREET. 3500 to 6500 RPM
Stahl
TOM GRIND..........

Attached picture 341895750_6932551056839719_6547756461541512918_n.jpg
Posted By: second 70

Re: headers glowing red at idle - 05/28/23 03:47 PM

Since it's at idle leave the dist. loose enough to move and once it starts advance the timing to say around 45 and see if it helps. Shouldn't hurt anything and will tell you if you're moving in the right direction.
Posted By: dart games

Re: headers glowing red at idle - 05/28/23 03:59 PM

so if i hold my hand over the primarys side of the carb intake it stays running
Posted By: GTX MATT

Re: headers glowing red at idle - 05/28/23 04:17 PM

Alright so figure out if the vacuum leak is between the carb and intake, intake and heads, or someplace else. Try carb clean/starting fluid trick
Posted By: dart games

Re: headers glowing red at idle - 05/28/23 04:25 PM

gtx matt,so a vacuum leak would be a sign as my hand is over the primary of the carb and it stays running
Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: headers glowing red at idle - 05/28/23 07:22 PM

Carbureted motors that won't idle below 1500 RPM are usually caused by one of two things, to rich on the idle circuits or to lean shruggy scope work
Sounds like yours is to lean twocents
Do you have another carb to try? Maybe the one you have has some internal fuel passages plug, gunk up work scope up
Posted By: dart games

Re: headers glowing red at idle - 05/28/23 10:09 PM

cab.im going to try another carb.guess ill find a cheap on from ebay.im thinking its real lean.this is a new thumper carb.why would he plug the outer circuts at all 4 corners
Posted By: rickraw

Re: headers glowing red at idle - 05/28/23 11:14 PM

Instead of throwing money at it, I’d give thumper a shout first. Second, try some of the suggestions mentioned by other members. Spraying carb cleaner around the carb base and intake gaskets, idle will increase.
Posted By: Blusmbl

Re: headers glowing red at idle - 05/29/23 02:17 AM

Definitely try carb cleaner or something near the intake to head area, underside by the valley pan, and around the base of the carb.

Like others have mentioned, it’s either too lean or the timing is retarded. You’ve verified the timing mark with a piston stop so that is likely ruled out, but if it doesn’t die with your hand covering the carb it sounds like it’s getting excess air somewhere.
Posted By: INTMD8

Re: headers glowing red at idle - 05/29/23 02:32 AM

My instinct is to agree with Al and it's timing.

Idling when restricting the carb makes me wonder how it could possibly be so lean otherwise?

So, I don't know but agree with others that I would start with verifying timing mark. smile
Posted By: dart games

Re: headers glowing red at idle - 05/29/23 08:28 AM

thanks for all help.when i can take a weeks vacation off i will pull the motor and check timing.i can do it in car because where the rack is at in front of the balancer.so motor must be pulled.such a very bad let down.and more set backs.at my age of 62 i just want to go racing once more in my life
Posted By: carnut68

Re: headers glowing red at idle - 05/29/23 10:12 AM

Originally Posted by dart games
gtx matt,so a vacuum leak would be a sign as my hand is over the primary of the carb and it stays running
That tells you it's really lean. Look for a vacuum leak. Did Dominic recently work on the carb?
Posted By: sr4440

Re: headers glowing red at idle - 05/29/23 12:45 PM

Originally Posted by Blusmbl
Definitely try carb cleaner or something near the intake to head area, underside by the valley pan, and around the base of the carb.

Like others have mentioned, it’s either too lean or the timing is retarded. You’ve verified the timing mark with a piston stop so that is likely ruled out, but if it doesn’t die with your hand covering the carb it sounds like it’s getting excess air somewhere.


Whenever we have a new engine that shows signs of being lean (won't idle on idle circuit, red headers, runs like chit) I grab a can of crab cleaner and spray the intake mating area and carb base. You will know right away with the engine speed change.

Joe
Posted By: dart games

Re: headers glowing red at idle - 05/29/23 12:59 PM

UPDATE,UPDATE.decided to pull timing cover to rule out cam timing .had to remove rack and pinion.with cam gear dot pointed down..crank key is in the 4 degree advance hole at 2 o clock,.o degree is at 4 o clock.should the crank key be pointing up when the cam dot is at bottom

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Posted By: sr4440

Re: headers glowing red at idle - 05/29/23 01:05 PM

Rotate the engine 360 degrees and the cam dot will be on the top.


Joe
Posted By: Tig

Re: headers glowing red at idle - 05/29/23 01:06 PM

You really need to confirm the cam install with a dial gauge and a degree wheel. It's rare but stuff can be machined wrong unfortunately.
Posted By: sr4440

Re: headers glowing red at idle - 05/29/23 01:15 PM

Someone has sent you down a rabbit hole, I had an engine that the cam was retarded 2 teeth (28.8 degrees) and it idled ok but ran like poo. The fact that you add more fuel (covering the cab with your hand) and it runs, tells you, you nave an A/F issue.
Posted By: B1MAXX

Re: headers glowing red at idle - 05/29/23 01:52 PM

Originally Posted by sr4440
Someone has sent you down a rabbit hole, I had an engine that the cam was retarded 2 teeth (28.8 degrees) and it idled ok but ran like poo. The fact that you add more fuel (covering the cab with your hand) and it runs, tells you, you nave an A/F issue.


this right here I agree with.

And yes the key should be at 2 o clock when at TDC, and the corresponding cam timing dots line up.
Posted By: Al_Alguire

Re: headers glowing red at idle - 05/29/23 04:14 PM

Its pretty easy to check if its timing. With the engine running turn the distributor. If it runs better, headers stop glowing theres your sign. Then you can worry about the other issues. Seen it MANY times and it has always been a timing issue. You won't hurt the engine if the ignition timing get advanced to 40-or 50 degrees at idle. There is no load on the engine at idle. Id be willing to bet its off 14-20 degrees from where you think it is. But if you advance it and it gets better you have an answer, that costs nothing and takes minutes to try.

You seem to have another issue being a vacuum leak. Gonna have to be a HUGE leak to turn 8 headers red, not just a random cylinder or two. Think about it...The headers being red is 99% of the time from fuel being burned in the header rather than the chamber, they dont get that hot from a LACK of fuel
Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: headers glowing red at idle - 05/29/23 04:41 PM

I had a new Max Wedge 440 bracket motor do the same thing when breaking it in at night, enriching the idle mixture cure it shruggy scope wrenchtwocents
Posted By: dart games

Re: headers glowing red at idle - 05/29/23 05:43 PM

maybee i went down a rabbit hole or not.having peace of mind the cam timing was done right is worth taking it apart.so at this point turn the motor so can gear dot is on top.where should bottom gear be at.then i can go back together get it running and enrich the mixture screws
Posted By: FastmOp

Re: headers glowing red at idle - 05/29/23 11:11 PM

Get some close up pics of the lower timing gear. Need to see the marks
Posted By: sr4440

Re: headers glowing red at idle - 05/29/23 11:29 PM

If it is 4 degrees advance, there is a different mark than the "0" degree dot. The dot on the cam and the "mark" will line up when the mark is closest to the cam, the cam dot will either be on the top or bottom, but it will be in line with the crank and cam. Like FastMOp said, need CLEAR pictures of the crank gear.
Posted By: Thelma133

Re: headers glowing red at idle - 05/30/23 06:16 AM

ou seem to have another issue being a vacuum leak. Gonna have to be a HUGE leak to turn 8 headers red, not just a random cylinder or two. Think about it...The headers being red is 99% of the time from fuel being burned in the header rather than the chamber, they dont get that hot from a LACK of fuel

I AGREE COMPLETELY WITH THIS STATEMENT. ID BE THE CAM IS INSTALLED RETARDED AND THE CHARGE IS BURNING IN THE HEADER, NOT THE CHAMBER. I ADVANCED MY CAM AND THAT SOLVED MY PROBLEM.
Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: headers glowing red at idle - 05/30/23 07:26 AM

I have 12 BB Mopar Cloyes 3 bolt timing sets be marked wrong on the crankshaft keyways, they were assbackwards, the triangle marks were retarded and the rectangular marks were advanced puke whiney rant some of those crank gears were off a half a dot also puke whiney
the only way to truly know where the intake lobe centers are is to degree the cam.
Do not ASSUME anything when it comes to any and all after market race parts these days, trust but VERIFY scope wrenchup twocents
Posted By: dart games

Re: headers glowing red at idle - 05/30/23 10:38 AM

the crank gear is a 7 way with the key in the 4a slot,so there is markings on the outside of crank gear with the settings and dots to line up.but there is a single dot at 0 that looks like the cam gear.after looking up the part number for top gear its a pro gear timning set.so i went on there website.the tr series shows a 3 bolt with a 3 way crank gear.the 4000 series shows the only one with a 9 way crank gear but a single bolt cam gear do agree with timing.i talked to thumper.he says his carbs are ready to go out of the box and no settings needed.i never did find nothing wrong with the carb and the intake gaskets is correct.i emailed pro gear see if they can send me instructions
Posted By: HardcoreB

Re: headers glowing red at idle - 05/30/23 12:19 PM

Ignition timing ...I know it's frustrating but if just had taken-in the good advice that you sought when you posted, you'd have known quickly as has been mentioned. This still is an opportunity to learn for many.
Posted By: varunner

Re: headers glowing red at idle - 05/30/23 12:22 PM


I found this a couple years ago while looking for info on a Progear set.

Attached File
Timing_Chain_9_Key.pdf  (42 downloads)
Posted By: dart games

Re: headers glowing red at idle - 05/30/23 01:03 PM

varrunner,thats what i have.its installed 4 degrees advance.but as the chain stretches it will go back to 0.i went on you tube and looked at vids.the cam timing is installed corectly.i checked the intake gasket.only thing left is thumpers carb.i pm him on facebook.he wont give me no turning advice other than is carbs is ready to run out of the box.this carb was never ran or fired
Posted By: FastmOp

Re: headers glowing red at idle - 05/30/23 01:48 PM

Still want to see a pic of the crank gear
Posted By: dart games

Re: headers glowing red at idle - 05/30/23 11:50 PM

fastmop,flip phones dont take good pics as you can see the ones i posted
Posted By: an8sec70cuda

Re: headers glowing red at idle - 05/31/23 12:10 PM

Did you spray around the carb base to check for a vacuum leak there?
Posted By: dart games

Re: headers glowing red at idle - 06/01/23 12:16 AM

8 sec cuda,yes.now its time to attack the carb,carb gurus chime in.thumper wont give me tuning advice and its his carb.so did research on power valves.said if the power valve is too low will run lean.which makes me think somethings wrong with the carb when i put my hand over the primarys and it idles fine,wasnt looking at the headers at that time..so i ordered block off plugs for the power valve also stated in the research by blocking off power vavle will enrich it has 88 jets should i go higher in jet sizes.its a shame all spped shops in st.louis is gone.so theres no where to get block offs at.so in a few day will get them.not sure what jets is in the idle circuts.its a 3 circut that been converted into 2 circut
Posted By: justinp61

Re: headers glowing red at idle - 06/01/23 12:31 AM

Originally Posted by dart games
8 sec cuda,yes.now its time to attack the carb,carb gurus chime in.thumper wont give me tuning advice and its his carb.so did research on power valves.said if the power valve is too low will run lean.which makes me think somethings wrong with the carb when i put my hand over the primarys and it idles fine,wasnt looking at the headers at that time..so i ordered block off plugs for the power valve also stated in the research by blocking off power vavle will enrich it has 88 jets should i go higher in jet sizes.its a shame all spped shops in st.louis is gone.so theres no where to get block offs at.so in a few day will get them.not sure what jets is in the idle circuts.its a 3 circut that been converted into 2 circut


I find that hard to believe that Thumper won't help. He spent a lot of time on the phone helping me with a carb that he didn't build, several calls in fact. I do have one of his carbs now and he has always helped with it too.

Do you have an AFR meter on it?
Posted By: AndyF

Re: headers glowing red at idle - 06/01/23 12:36 AM

Good luck with that! Carbs that have been modified by a tuner can be really tough to sort out since you never know what they did. Sounds like you're flying blind without any diagnostics which makes the job nearly impossible. You really need some data to help solve the problem. EGT, header temps, AFR, etc.

You can adjust idle mixture screws to see if they work. That will at least give you one clue without too much work. If you haven't already you can also adjust timing at idle to see if that does anything. Since this problem is at idle I don't think I'd worry about the power valves too much. Look down the throttle bores while the engine is idling and see what is happening. See if there if fuel being pulled out of the boosters and if so which ones. That should be a four corner idle carb so try all four idle screws.

Do you have anyone who can help? I have a feeling that someone with some race engine knowledge would be a big help.
Posted By: dart games

Re: headers glowing red at idle - 06/01/23 09:33 AM

andy f,ive had race engines all my life.last time i had headers glowing red was in the 70s.dont remember what i did to correct that.im sure hen this is all done ill be a expert at this problem
Posted By: B1MAXX

Re: headers glowing red at idle - 06/01/23 11:32 AM

Plugging the power valve probably won't help; That adds more fuel to the main well. The idle an transitions have down stream restrictions. The easiest try to see if your idle is lean, beyond turning out the mixture screws,is plug or cover the idle bleeds and see what it does.If that stops the red hot headers, then you know its in the idle/transition circuit.
Posted By: huimerind

Re: headers glowing red at idle - 06/01/23 11:50 AM

Check that the metering block gaskets are not blocking the idle fuel restrictors.
If 3/16" long set screw is used for IFR, on some blocks, it can be too close to gasket surface.
Posted By: Thumperdart

Re: headers glowing red at idle - 06/01/23 01:10 PM

Make sure when you talk about me that you keep it real and honest and I HAVE tried to help you and the p/v jets etc have ZERO to do with glowing headers....Get it together before you try and throw me under the bus there buddy...
Posted By: B1duster

Re: headers glowing red at idle - 06/01/23 01:47 PM

https://www.badasscars.com/index.cfm/page/ptype=product/product_id=75/mode=prod/prd75.htm
Posted By: an8sec70cuda

Re: headers glowing red at idle - 06/01/23 01:55 PM

Since you have the timing cover off...put a degree wheel on it and find out where the cam is. Guessing where it is by going off the marks on the timing set isn't gonna do you any favors.
If it's not where it should be, correct it and try again.
If the cam is installed OK, put it back together, then adjust the timing by hand and see what happens.
Do this before you screw w/ the carb. twocents
Posted By: crackedback

Re: headers glowing red at idle - 06/01/23 04:59 PM

Sounds like a huge vacuum leak somewhere to have all 8 glowing. Cover the primaries and it still runs = sucking air from somewhere.

If you back the idle speed screw all the way out and it still runs at a normal RPM, something is hung up or leaking.

Ignition timing (Al provided a no cost suggestion, crank in more timing and see if it goes away) is the typical suspect.

Power valve should not even be in play here, unless there is something wrong with the gaskets/blocks used allowing circuits to cross over (rare).
Posted By: jcastle1

Re: headers glowing red at idle - 06/02/23 02:30 AM

Make sure you don't have a threaded plug missing on the rear of the intake manifold. Seems obvious but check anyways
Posted By: bonefish

Re: headers glowing red at idle - 06/02/23 04:21 PM

dont b and rb timing covers have the tab in a diffrent place
Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: headers glowing red at idle - 06/02/23 06:59 PM

Originally Posted by bonefish
dont b and rb timing covers have the tab in a diffrent place
No if they are the same year. Mopar has used three different timing covers since the early 1960. 1958 to 1966 or 1967 (CRS) and then change them again in the mid 1970s shruggy Thye also change the dampeners with the timing covers in 1966 or 1967 with the dampener change, They move TDC from the top to the middle of the timing tab scope
Posted By: moparx

Re: headers glowing red at idle - 06/03/23 06:52 PM

i believe the change in the mid 70's timing cover was 74 when [at least] the C-body and truck went to the passenger side inlet on the water pump housing.
beer
Posted By: dart games

Re: headers glowing red at idle - 06/10/23 01:16 AM

thanks,for all the help.just wasted 15k on a engine.no matter what i do.wont run.all tapped out for money and its now a money pit have car for sale on racing junk,here,for abodys only .once again thanks for the help.rather someone buy it and put there own motor in it and enjoy it
Posted By: FastmOp

Re: headers glowing red at idle - 06/10/23 04:43 AM

Way to give up
Posted By: MarkZ

Re: headers glowing red at idle - 06/10/23 05:33 AM

Someone is going to buy this for a song and have it fixed in a day.
Posted By: dart games

Re: headers glowing red at idle - 06/10/23 10:13 AM

so this is the engine and specs i bought from a local mopar person.cant find any info on the cam.email comp cams.heard nothing.that customer service sucks,thumper offers no turning advise.that customer service sucks.moal of the story.never buy a engine unless it wasw dynoed or you can here it running.if you do.spend a few hundred bucks and tear it down and check someones work.......................... - 400 Cold Weather 230 Block (.030
overbore) - This is strongest Mopar
production block, very hard to come by
as they only made them in the summer
of 1971.
- Molnar Forged Crank and Rods
- Ross Pistons (10.5 to 1 Compression for
pump gas)
- TRICK FLOW 270 HEADS!! (very hard
to find right now) flow 353 cfm on the
intake at .700 inch lift.
- Comp Solid Roller Cam and lifters( see
picture for specs)
- Smith Push Rods
- Harland Sharp Roller Rocker Arm (1.5
ratio)
- Indy Max Wedge Port Intake (4500
flange)
- ATI Harmonic Balancer
- 1020 Holley Dominiator Carb Built by
Dominic at Thumper Carbs (Dominic is
know for building Dominator's that run
well on the street and strip)
- BLP Racing Fuel Log
- MSD Billet Distributor
- Taylor 9MM Fire Power Spark Plug
Wires
- All new or rebuilt front accessories (
has a single serpentine belt running all
accessories including Power Steering
Pump)
- Electric Water Pump
- Hooker Super Comp Headers (For 69
Mopar B Body Chasis). These are
uncoated/painted black.
- Milodon Oil Pan

Attached picture 341918564_6565295870187502_2880771962167508873_n.jpg
Attached picture 339522009_6032546533528103_4988661725278437091_n.jpg
Attached picture 322720354_5596944647077519_1388361090330914218_n.jpg
Posted By: metallicareload

Re: headers glowing red at idle - 06/10/23 05:26 PM

What's gonna happen to the engine? What stroke is it? I've read the whole thread, sorry if I missed it, but was the TDC mark verified? Amount of advance verified? Good luck, in any caseup
Posted By: fast68plymouth

Re: headers glowing red at idle - 06/10/23 08:39 PM

Quote
cant find any info on the cam.


You need more info on the cam than this?

Attached picture 408974EC-6772-4EF0-A448-F07A245B09C1.jpeg
Posted By: Al_Alguire

Re: headers glowing red at idle - 06/10/23 09:14 PM

What do you want for the engine? Also never saw what the car was.
Posted By: GomangoCuda

Re: headers glowing red at idle - 06/10/23 09:14 PM

You have a Private Message.
Posted By: RTSE4ME

Re: headers glowing red at idle - 06/10/23 10:52 PM

I find it hard to believe that Thumper won't help after you bought a carb from him.
He helped me before I ever bought any thing.He is one of the better vendors here.
I had an issue similar to yours just opposite symptoms.Its hard solving tuning issues on a web board. Can you call someone or
bring it to someone for 2nd set of eyes?
Whats funny the person who actually figured out my issue was BigDad's favorite person...lol
Posted By: burks340

Re: headers glowing red at idle - 06/10/23 11:18 PM

i know a guy had an all aluminum indy engine in dragster . he couldnt get it to idle pulled the heads off took them to reputable machine shop had a pressure check ran well the heads didnt pass the pressure check for roller springs he installed heard back on engine and got it to idle . it may not be your problem but run a compression check on each cylinder with plugs out all cylinders should be within 10 lbs of eachother
Posted By: J_BODY

Re: headers glowing red at idle - 06/10/23 11:53 PM

Originally Posted by fast68plymouth
Quote
cant find any info on the cam.


You need more info on the cam than this?


Why? Already determined it’s the carbs fault wink
Posted By: B1MAXX

Re: headers glowing red at idle - 06/11/23 01:13 PM

Originally Posted by fast68plymouth
Quote
cant find any info on the cam.


You need more info on the cam than this?


What is missing? just curious, trying to learn.

I see the lobes, the duration, the lift, the separation, and the intake centerline.
Posted By: rickraw

Re: headers glowing red at idle - 06/11/23 01:32 PM

Only thing missing are the timing events.
Posted By: B1MAXX

Re: headers glowing red at idle - 06/11/23 02:10 PM

Aren't those discernible?
Posted By: fast68plymouth

Re: headers glowing red at idle - 06/11/23 03:34 PM

Originally Posted by B1MAXX
Aren't those discernible?


Indeed they are.
@.050:
21.5/61.5 - intake
64.5/24.5 - exhaust

If installed with the intake c/l as per the tag.

What’s actually missing is the recommended lash spec.
But anything between .018”-.026” would be close enough to rule that out as being the problem.
Posted By: B1MAXX

Re: headers glowing red at idle - 06/11/23 04:30 PM

Got it on the lash. up I just put in a Howards solid and was surprised to see .016 on the card, so I understand.
Posted By: dart games

Re: headers glowing red at idle - 06/11/23 09:38 PM

PROBLEM FIX. AFTER 8 HOURS ON IT TODAY.today i had no lawn service to do and no car show or cruishing,raining day so thought ill fiquire this crap out.,after going back into the timing set.took it off of 4 degree advance put it on tdc.put it back together same.bump timing up to 40,same.took off carb.drill holes in throttle plates,same last ditch effort as nothing else worked.i swapped the idle bleeds and it worked .set idle and reset timing.this time i blame thumper for that one.will keep car and see what it does.will take down ads.after 3 weeks it was something so simple as the air bleeds was put in wrong
Posted By: tboomer

Re: headers glowing red at idle - 06/11/23 09:40 PM

I have been following this...Great find! up
Posted By: racerx

Re: headers glowing red at idle - 06/11/23 11:12 PM

Originally Posted by tboomer
I have been following this...Great find! up

X2 up
I see you out of st.Louis .what track you race at?
Posted By: carnut68

Re: headers glowing red at idle - 06/12/23 04:52 AM

Originally Posted by dart games
PROBLEM FIX. AFTER 8 HOURS ON IT TODAY.today i had no lawn service to do and no car show or cruishing,raining day so thought ill fiquire this crap out.,after going back into the timing set.took it off of 4 degree advance put it on tdc.put it back together same.bump timing up to 40,same.took off carb.drill holes in throttle plates,same last ditch effort as nothing else worked.i swapped the idle bleeds and it worked .set idle and reset timing.this time i blame thumper for that one.will keep car and see what it does.will take down ads.after 3 weeks it was something so simple as the air bleeds was put in wrong
Still not Dom's fault. Glad you got it figured out. Now go beat on it.
Posted By: dart games

Re: headers glowing red at idle - 06/12/23 10:16 AM

car nut.thumper built the carb.why was the bleeds put in the wrong place.the motor was built correctly.next thing is should i put everything back the way it was.i didnt mention during the week i change the valve lash from 15 int,20 exhaust to 25 straight up.and that didnt fix it.but i might go change that.i dont feel i should go back in and change it back to 4 degree advanced.all that does is change the power band.should i put the power valve back in carb.i did plug it.do i put rivets in the throttle blades where i drilled them.it idles ok
Posted By: HardcoreB

Re: headers glowing red at idle - 06/12/23 11:56 AM

Congrats on fixing it! So it was predominantly spark advance. Did you buy the carb from Thumper?
Posted By: B1MAXX

Re: headers glowing red at idle - 06/12/23 12:08 PM

.025 hot is about as loose as I would go. If the jetting was with a power valve you better put it back in, or you'll be very lean up top.
Posted By: dart games

Re: headers glowing red at idle - 06/12/23 01:07 PM

hard core.carb was came with engine.never fireed.b-1 ill go back and reset 15-20.
Posted By: HardcoreB

Re: headers glowing red at idle - 06/12/23 01:35 PM

Originally Posted by dart games
hard core.carb was came with engine.never fireed.b-1 ill go back and reset 15-20.

You didn't buy the CARB directly from Dominic...HIS SERVICE DOESN'T TRANSLATE TO YOU DON'T BASH HIM, YOU HAVE NO RIGHT. Your issue is directly between you and the guy you purchased the engine from. This is absurd to even have to explain it.
Posted By: GomangoCuda

Re: headers glowing red at idle - 06/12/23 02:01 PM

Originally Posted by dart games
car nut.thumper built the carb.why was the bleeds put in the wrong place.the motor was built correctly.next thing is should i put everything back the way it was.i didnt mention during the week i change the valve lash from 15 int,20 exhaust to 25 straight up.and that didnt fix it.but i might go change that.i dont feel i should go back in and change it back to 4 degree advanced.all that does is change the power band.should i put the power valve back in carb.i did plug it.do i put rivets in the throttle blades where i drilled them.it idles ok


How can idle bleeds be put in the wrong place? More explanation of what you found and how you changed it is needed.
Could the engine builder have made changes after receiving the carb from Thumper? Could the carb have actually been ordered for a very different engine and found its way onto yours?
Posted By: EasyG

Re: headers glowing red at idle - 06/12/23 02:04 PM

Originally Posted by HardcoreB
Originally Posted by dart games
hard core.carb was came with engine.never fireed.b-1 ill go back and reset 15-20.

You didn't buy the CARB directly from Dominic...HIS SERVICE DOESN'T TRANSLATE TO YOU DON'T BASH HIM, YOU HAVE NO RIGHT. Your issue is directly between you and the guy you purchased the engine from. This is absurd to even have to explain it.


Yeah!

Attached picture yeah.jpeg
Posted By: Leigh

Re: headers glowing red at idle - 06/12/23 02:29 PM

So the high speed and idle air bleeds were reversed? Easy enough fix. Glad you found it.
Posted By: Al_Alguire

Re: headers glowing red at idle - 06/12/23 04:04 PM

Im not from Missouri but lived in Kansas for years so changing air bleeds a few thou fixed it, you are gonna have show me..If HS and idle were swapped which I doubt Dom would do as that's a pretty rookie mistake I still cant see it causing the issue. But hey what do I l know but would have to see it with my own eyes to believe it.
Posted By: JERICOGTX

Re: headers glowing red at idle - 06/12/23 04:30 PM

Originally Posted by HardcoreB
Originally Posted by dart games
hard core.carb was came with engine.never fireed.b-1 ill go back and reset 15-20.

You didn't buy the CARB directly from Dominic...HIS SERVICE DOESN'T TRANSLATE TO YOU DON'T BASH HIM, YOU HAVE NO RIGHT. Your issue is directly between you and the guy you purchased the engine from. This is absurd to even have to explain it.


Exactly.
Posted By: INTMD8

Re: headers glowing red at idle - 06/12/23 04:36 PM

Originally Posted by Al_Alguire
.If HS and idle were swapped which I doubt Dom would do as that's a pretty rookie mistake I still cant see it causing the issue. But hey what do I l know but would have to see it with my own eyes to believe it.


Agreed, and if so wouldn't idle mixture screws still function? (and if they didn't wouldn't you start there?)
Posted By: carnut68

Re: headers glowing red at idle - 06/12/23 04:41 PM

Originally Posted by Al_Alguire
Im not from Missouri but lived in Kansas for years so changing air bleeds a few thou fixed it, you are gonna have show me..If HS and idle were swapped which I doubt Dom would do as that's a pretty rookie mistake I still cant see it causing the issue. But hey what do I l know but would have to see it with my own eyes to believe it.
This. I'm betting it was a carb baseplate gasket and air bleeds. But you still can't dump this on Dom. I looked at that carb and it doesn't look like the ones he builds. He may have "rebuilt " it. He gives his time freely whenever you call him. Like most have posted glad you got it figured out.
Posted By: JERICOGTX

Re: headers glowing red at idle - 06/12/23 05:01 PM

Originally Posted by carnut68
Originally Posted by Al_Alguire
Im not from Missouri but lived in Kansas for years so changing air bleeds a few thou fixed it, you are gonna have show me..If HS and idle were swapped which I doubt Dom would do as that's a pretty rookie mistake I still cant see it causing the issue. But hey what do I l know but would have to see it with my own eyes to believe it.
This. I'm betting it was a carb baseplate gasket and air bleeds. But you still can't dump this on Dom. I looked at that carb and it doesn't look like the ones he builds. He may have "rebuilt " it. He gives his time freely whenever you call him. Like most have posted glad you got it figured out.


IF Dom touched it, it would have his stickers on the bowls. THAT carb, is NOT one of Dom's carbs that he builds.
Posted By: carnut68

Re: headers glowing red at idle - 06/12/23 05:11 PM

Exacty. I have one and it flat out works.
Posted By: RTSE4ME

Re: headers glowing red at idle - 06/12/23 05:39 PM

Looking at the pics. It doesn't look like it has billet base plate just billet metering blocks. Hard to tell.
Dom won't work on carbs with cast base plate. I think he uses all BLP parts for his builds.
No sticker either.

Attached picture carb.jpg
Posted By: JERICOGTX

Re: headers glowing red at idle - 06/12/23 05:41 PM

Originally Posted by RTSE4ME
Looking at the pics. It doesn't look like it has billet base plate just billet metering blocks. Hard to tell.
Dom won't work on carbs with cast base plate. I think he uses all BLP parts for his builds.
No sticker either.




Correct. All his builds use BLP parts, and Superformance gaskets. If that carb was done years ago, there is no telling how many times it's been "tweeked" by someone else...
Posted By: HardcoreB

Re: headers glowing red at idle - 06/12/23 05:56 PM

Originally Posted by JERICOGTX
[quote=RTSE4ME]... there is no telling how many times it's been "tweeked" by someone else...

That was my first thought but even if it had undamaged tamper tags on it, this guy didn't buy it from Dominic. So many scenarios could have happened i.e.-What if the guy who bought it from Dominic 'did him wrong' in some way. I guess I'm going thru the trouble to engage this to undo some of the character assassination AND to offer the OP another course of thinking. It'd probably do him well to rethink his words and actions if he's looking for additional tech advice here or even friendly assistance at the track.
Posted By: RTSE4ME

Re: headers glowing red at idle - 06/12/23 06:05 PM

I bet that the carb isn't one of Dom's he built or rebuilt. Maybe that's why he would not help.
Also he sends a tuning kit on all carb work done.
Posted By: Schultz62

Re: headers glowing red at idle - 06/12/23 08:58 PM

Only thing missing is a dude who knows anything about motors and tuning. My take after reading this drama is you should sell everything and take up...hmm don't know as you'd probably eff up most anything. Throwing Dom under the bus confirms you are an idiot.
Posted By: rickraw

Re: headers glowing red at idle - 06/12/23 10:02 PM

Well put.
Posted By: FastmOp

Re: headers glowing red at idle - 06/12/23 11:38 PM

I thought troll once he wouldn't post the crank gear pic
Posted By: Thumperdart

Re: headers glowing red at idle - 06/13/23 04:19 AM

I'm glad you said this and it took everything I had to not let this monkey have it but what a crock about blaming me for anything carb related. I really appreciate you guys sticking up for me and if I could say what I felt I would but ether way this fool has no right even owning anything performance oriented and I'm sorry this even went here....And to the OP (whatever your name is) at least learn how to type in proper sentences that look proper or even make any sense....
Posted By: Thelma133

Re: headers glowing red at idle - 06/13/23 04:40 AM

I bought one of Doms carburetors. He was there helping during entire installation as I had lots of questions. This guy had a car for sale and that should answer any questions about his temperament. I think he said to “POUND SAND” no less than 4 times in his ad. Weirdo.
Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: headers glowing red at idle - 06/13/23 05:50 AM

Dominic started off rebuilding customers carbs a long time ago and worked up to building custom carbs only with all new pieces up
huh, Dom whistling
Posted By: dart games

Re: headers glowing red at idle - 06/13/23 11:24 AM

im sure it was a honest mistake of the bleeds being put in backwards.if i didnt buy it someone else would of had the problem or last owner.last owner went to gen 3.he had this motor in his car but found a great deal on a hell cat engine.which looks cool in the charger..it cause me a lot of headache to the point of selling everything.if i did try another carb i wand it worked.still would of blame something was wrong with thumpers carb.which i never found anything or never thought about the air bleeds.i did so much rearch everyday hoping something will point me in the right direction.what i still dont get is only advise thumper offered was fix the engine problem.he didnt offfer to send the carb back to him so he can have a peek at it.some carb builders has engines they put there carb on and run them if a problem comes up.had a problem with a atm carb sent it back to him he put it on a engine and did a few things to it.thats customer service
Posted By: sr4440

Re: headers glowing red at idle - 06/13/23 12:06 PM

If ever a tread needed to be locked, it's this one.
Posted By: HotRodDave

Re: headers glowing red at idle - 06/13/23 04:46 PM

Originally Posted by dart games
im sure it was a honest mistake of the bleeds being put in backwards.if i didnt buy it someone else would of had the problem or last owner.last owner went to gen 3.he had this motor in his car but found a great deal on a hell cat engine.which looks cool in the charger..it cause me a lot of headache to the point of selling everything.if i did try another carb i wand it worked.still would of blame something was wrong with thumpers carb.which i never found anything or never thought about the air bleeds.i did so much rearch everyday hoping something will point me in the right direction.what i still dont get is only advise thumper offered was fix the engine problem.he didnt offfer to send the carb back to him so he can have a peek at it.some carb builders has engines they put there carb on and run them if a problem comes up.had a problem with a atm carb sent it back to him he put it on a engine and did a few things to it.thats customer service



We still see no evidence you are Dom's customer shruggy even if it was a carb he built (still no evidence it was) it could easily have been re-built by someone else who got the jets wrong, quite likely the reason it was sold is they couldn't figure out what they did wrong and gave up...
Posted By: dart games

Re: headers glowing red at idle - 06/25/23 10:04 AM

so im trying to make sure when i take out the car theres no problems.still having problems with doms carb.so hope carb gurus and chime in on this one.still idles great and rpm dont come down when put into gear.promblem is both primary and sendondary sticks and wont come back down to idle.you have to move it to come down.but when shut off throttle works great and dont stick.only does it running.as said in the past i drilled holes in te blades.so i took carb off and rivet the holes .made no differance.should i make a vid of me throwing doms carb in the trash or keep trying to fix his carb or find another carb
Posted By: GTX MATT

Re: headers glowing red at idle - 06/25/23 01:47 PM

After seeing how this thread played out I would honestly be surprised if you could make a video and figure out how to upload it.

Sell it to someone that knows what they’re doing and put an Eddy 750 on it.
Posted By: JAKE68

Re: headers glowing red at idle - 06/25/23 01:48 PM

If i were you I would get a hold of dom and send carb back to him to straighten it out. Evidently someone has been in that thing and messed it up,
dom stuff is right on, Sounds like your still trying to slam dom.
Posted By: Thumperdart

Re: headers glowing red at idle - 06/25/23 01:53 PM

Based on everything else you do wrong, please throw it in the trash like the ignorant child you are. Better yet maybe I should throw YOU in the trash where you belong....If you clowns expect me to take this BS you've got the wrong guy and azzhats like you are why I can't wait to move on in this game....Get that diaper changed, you'll feel much better about yourself....
Posted By: Mr PotatoHead

Re: headers glowing red at idle - 06/25/23 01:56 PM

Mr. OP. At this point I think wed rather see you make a vid of you pouring rocks down the carb. Your obsessiveness over this guy vs the actual carb is obvious. Stop crying and just get a different carb that you had sorted out thats now not sorted out and move the XXXX on.



Originally Posted by dart games
so im trying to make sure when i take out the car theres no problems.still having problems with doms carb.so hope carb gurus and chime in on this one.still idles great and rpm dont come down when put into gear.promblem is both primary and sendondary sticks and wont come back down to idle.you have to move it to come down.but when shut off throttle works great and dont stick.only does it running.as said in the past i drilled holes in te blades.so i took carb off and rivet the holes .made no differance.should i make a vid of me throwing doms carb in the trash or keep trying to fix his carb or find another carb
Posted By: Harry's Taxi 2

Re: headers glowing red at idle - 06/25/23 04:02 PM

Originally Posted by Thumperdart
Based on everything else you do wrong, please throw it in the trash like the ignorant child you are. Better yet maybe I should throw YOU in the trash where you belong....If you clowns expect me to take this BS you've got the wrong guy and azzhats like you are why I can't wait to move on in this game....Get that diaper changed, you'll feel much better about yourself....


+1 !
Posted By: A727Tflite

Re: headers glowing red at idle - 06/25/23 04:09 PM

Does the admin need a show of hands to remove this thread?

How many hands are needed?

Obviously this has become a personal attack on a guy that seems to have a great reputation.
Posted By: INTMD8

Re: headers glowing red at idle - 06/25/23 06:25 PM

Originally Posted by Mr PotatoHead
Mr. OP. At this point I think wed rather see you make a vid of you pouring rocks down the carb.


grin up
Posted By: dart games

Re: headers glowing red at idle - 06/25/23 06:54 PM

transman,i will give you this carb free and you put it on a engine and tell me what you think.what do you think im playing.some type of a joke here
Posted By: MarkZ

Re: headers glowing red at idle - 06/25/23 07:24 PM

Originally Posted by dart games
transman,i will give you this carb free and you put it on a engine and tell me what you think.what do you think im playing.some type of a joke here


You got this thing second hand and can't even prove it's one of his carbs, right?
Posted By: tboomer

Re: headers glowing red at idle - 06/25/23 08:21 PM

Guys...This pissin match is over. The carb was second hand? I know Dom and talked with him years ago. Pretty good guy in my book. I don't think he would screw anyone over on a carb deal. This thread is done... lock
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