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Borgeson upgrade - fitting challenge... #3144372
05/13/23 12:59 PM
05/13/23 12:59 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,755
Windsor, ON, Canada
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Diplomat360 Offline OP
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Diplomat360  Offline OP
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OK, so this is my 1980 Diplomat coupe we are talking about here and the challenge I am having in terms of figuring out the proper fittings to connect the Borgeson box to the factory power steering pump.

The factory power steering pump is the Saginaw unit, see attached photos for the high pressure power steering hose that I have been using so far, and in particular the O-ring flare hookup on the pump side. Not sure what that sort of an end is called though, other than on-line they simply appear to be referenced as "O-ring".

1) Alright, so a good friend of mine gave me his left-over and unused high-pressure hose along with a 16mm x 1.5 flare fitting. Good stuff, this allows me to attach the hose to the Borgeson box on the high-pressure side. So 1/4 way there now.

2) To make the return line attachment I just need to pick up another 16mm x 1.5 flare fitting and simply make a short tube piece that'll attach to the box as well and simply attach a rubber hose between that and my power steering pump, well cooler line actually, but that connects to the pump. I do wander if I could use a pre-made 5/16" brake line for this? Not sure about the flare angles here though, what I do know is that pre-made brake lines have a 45deg. double flare, which I think should work. If I do go the route of the brake-line piece which has a male adapter on it, I would simply need to replace that with a different nut. So 3/4 way there now.

3) Now the PITA part: the Saginaw box has that weird (to me) O-ring connector. And my NEW hose has a male threaded nut with a double flare end, so clearly those two won't attach. I started to look at fittings and can find plenty of O-Ring male to 16mm x 1.5 male fittings, but I haven't found a single Male (pump end) to Female (hose side) fitting.

Worse yet, I readily admit I simply do not understand the whole NPT vs Straight Thread vs SAE stuff....I'm simply lost! (I've tried to learn this, multiple times, but honestly, none of this has ever stuck with me)

I can't imagine my Saginaw pump is the ONLY pump with this kind of an attachment. So how have you guys handled this swap? What fitting can I use without having to craft this monstrous concoction of mulitple adapters at the pump just to connect the hose properly?

EDIT
====

Is Borgeson part 925127 meant to address this? Or can I simply use one of their adapters in 925122 to allow me to connect the NEW replacement hose directly to the box without having to put some kind of a fitting in place first?

EDIT #2
=======

I just measured the thread sizing on the pump and the NEW hose:
1) PUMP = 16 mm x 1.5
2) HOSE = 5/8 - 18

So I suppose I am looking for a fitting that's an O-Ring 16 mm x 1.5 MALE and 5/18-18 FEMALE, does that make sense?

GATES - Power Steering Hose - 35461.jpgGATES - Power Steering Hose - 35461 - Pump Fitting.jpg
Last edited by Diplomat360; 05/13/23 01:58 PM. Reason: Borgeson adapter reference & adapter sizes
Re: Borgeson upgrade - fitting challenge... [Re: Diplomat360] #3144490
05/13/23 10:26 PM
05/13/23 10:26 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,315
Omaha Ne
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TJP Offline
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TJP  Offline
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Omaha Ne
To late for my scrambled brain but I'll bump ya smile Have any hydraulic hose places nearby? Think farm tractors, bobcats, etc. wink
they can usually fab up what one needs shruggy bump

Re: Borgeson upgrade - fitting challenge... [Re: TJP] #3144509
05/14/23 08:43 AM
05/14/23 08:43 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,538
Freeport IL USA
poorboy Offline
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poorboy  Offline
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Posts: 10,538
Freeport IL USA
What he said.

If you have a place that can make hydraulic hoses near you (our local O'Reilly's makes them), and you have one of each end you need, they should be able to put a new hose on your ends.

As far as I know, they don't make any adaptors to change from one size set up to a different one. I've had several hoses made up to attach specific pumps and steering boxes together. Swapping between different manufacturers pumps and steering boxes nearly always requires specially made hoses, its usually the cheapest was to go. Another option is to buy a hose that has one end correct and take the end of the other hose you need with you. and have just the one end changed.

When ever you want to change the hose ends, be sure you take in the ends with the rubber connection still attached, there are hose barbs on the ends of the steel lines that have to be reused to hold the pressure.

That said, it may be possible to change the fitting end in either the pump or the box to solve the problem. I'm pretty sure when the hose ends first changed they simply put in different fittings into the pump, or at the box.

Re: Borgeson upgrade - fitting challenge... [Re: poorboy] #3144517
05/14/23 09:09 AM
05/14/23 09:09 AM
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Posts: 1,755
Windsor, ON, Canada
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Diplomat360 Offline OP
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Diplomat360  Offline OP
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Thanks both of you guys for the responses.

Alright...so after quite a bit more of searching and looking through catalogs I was in fact able to find the correct (for my needs) fitting: both Gates and Eaton offer them, see attachments for details.

Now perhaps the better question is: do I take the "easy route" and source the said fitting and just plug it all together, or do I go the route my friend advised me, which is to make the required hoses using AN connectors?

I have no experience making hoses, my buddy said it's easy stuff and I trust him.

The option to take this to a local shop is something I considered as well, but truth be told, it seems like NO ONE these days is either capable of doing 'custom work' (meaning anything that doesn't come in a box), or perhaps simply has no interest in doing so. I literally walked into the local CarQuest shop yesterday with all my attachments (current and new hoses, the fittings I had, even took printouts of what I was looking for), counter guy eventually paid attention to me standing there waiting for someone to talk to and his only answer was "nope, sorry, we don't have any fittings"...???? Hey, but there is a nice big box right behind you that has drawers clearly labeled "brake fittings", "adapters", etc...so I re-iterated my question as to the availability, still same result...and this in Windsor, ON, Canada which for years has been considered the "Auto Capital of Canada", given the proximity to Detroit, etc.

So yeah, this unfortunately isn't the first time I experienced this which is why I had almost completely transitioned to simply finding stuff on my own!

gates_fitting.jpgeaton_fitting.jpg
Re: Borgeson upgrade - fitting challenge... [Re: Diplomat360] #3144611
05/14/23 09:04 PM
05/14/23 09:04 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,315
Omaha Ne
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TJP Offline
I Live Here
TJP  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,315
Omaha Ne
Seek out someone who makes or repairs hydraulic hoses. Parts stores around here are clueless unless you have a part #

Re: Borgeson upgrade - fitting challenge... [Re: TJP] #3144616
05/14/23 09:24 PM
05/14/23 09:24 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,538
Freeport IL USA
poorboy Offline
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Posts: 10,538
Freeport IL USA
Those places that tell you "they don't have the fittings" are nicely saying they don't want to be bothered.
We had a large truck outfit that used to jump on the chance to custom make hoses for me. Then the management changed, and that was it, no more hoses from them.

If you can find an adaptor that works with the standard available power steering hoses on the market, buy the adaptors and use them. There are likely going to be fewer places that will be willing to make hoses in 10 years then there is now. Otherwise, if you get a custom made hose now, when it wears out, you may be back in the same position as you are now.

Re: Borgeson upgrade - fitting challenge... [Re: poorboy] #3144759
05/15/23 02:39 PM
05/15/23 02:39 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,405
Michigan
MarkZ Offline
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Posts: 4,405
Michigan
The hose in the pictures is your old one? So the pump you have has an oddball fitting? I would just replace the fitting in the pump with one from a typical Mopar Saginaw pump. I might even have one laying around.

Matter of fact I need to replace the pump on my car. I used brand new brackets and pullies on the BB swap and didn't notice the belt alignment was off. Ate the seals in the pump. Borgeson doesn't have a core a charge for it, so I'll have an old pump laying here with a standard fitting. Let me know.

Last edited by MarkZ; 05/15/23 02:42 PM.

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