557 BBM with the new TF intake
#3142119
05/02/23 09:03 PM
05/02/23 09:03 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,485 SoCal
Brian Hafliger
OP
master
|
OP
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,485
SoCal
|
11.9:1, customer wants to mix fuel (hopefully he does it every time), Tf 270 heads, not tooooo large solid roller cam, KB block, Molnar crank and rods, Icon pistons. Really wanted 800HP but 795 is pretty close.... https://www.instagram.com/p/Crmg8_2rLF4/
Brian Hafliger
|
|
|
Re: 557 BBM with the new TF intake
[Re: Brian Hafliger]
#3142122
05/02/23 09:08 PM
05/02/23 09:08 PM
|
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,180 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
|
I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,180
Bend,OR USA
|
What time of year and were was the testing done?
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
|
|
|
Re: 557 BBM with the new TF intake
[Re: fast68plymouth]
#3142238
05/03/23 11:04 AM
05/03/23 11:04 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,485 SoCal
Brian Hafliger
OP
master
|
OP
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,485
SoCal
|
Andy I was going to use the SV intake, had it here....but TF sent me this one and after measuring it up against the SV, it's about .250 in area larger than the SV in the plenum, very clean plenum transitions, and slightly shorter runners. So it was a no brainer really, less work for me, and I really wanted to see if it would make the power. It did!
Thanks Dwayne, I was concerned with it making anything over 750HP given the constraints of this build (stock ex. placement was one of them). I did however not leave the heads alone....I did a bunch of sonic testing on the ports, and had TF supply me with engineering info on the water jackets in the head. I added a 2.25 hollow stem intake valve, changed the valve job, and did some porting to them. Andy, I believe I know the reason why you say this head likes a certain kind of cam timing, and after reworking the heads, I think I was able to remove that sensitivity issue.
Brian Hafliger
|
|
|
Re: 557 BBM with the new TF intake
[Re: Brian Hafliger]
#3142242
05/03/23 11:34 AM
05/03/23 11:34 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,498 So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
I Live Here
|
I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,498
So. Burlington, Vt.
|
after reworking the heads, I think I was able to remove that sensitivity issue. My guess would be ....... larger throat %, and/or a steeper seat/top angle perhaps?
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
|
|
|
Re: 557 BBM with the new TF intake
[Re: Brian Hafliger]
#3142258
05/03/23 12:19 PM
05/03/23 12:19 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,999 Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart
master
|
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,999
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
|
11.9:1, customer wants to mix fuel (hopefully he does it every time), Tf 270 heads, not tooooo large solid roller cam, KB block, Molnar crank and rods, Icon pistons. Really wanted 800HP but 795 is pretty close.... https://www.instagram.com/p/Crmg8_2rLF4/ I just moved the install on my cam from 110.5 to 108 and lost 3 hp, but picked up 1 hp average, all of it gained between my stall speed and half way to the shift point I plan to use. So the magic number I was looking for means a little less to me now. I would love to see what this motor does in the lower half of its usable rev range. I bet it will make up for that 5 hp he was hoping to see . It may very well look better than most 800 hp street/strip builds of that size motor.
Last edited by gregsdart; 05/03/23 12:21 PM.
8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
|
|
|
Re: 557 BBM with the new TF intake
[Re: Brian Hafliger]
#3142267
05/03/23 12:37 PM
05/03/23 12:37 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 31,036 Oregon
AndyF
I Win
|
I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 31,036
Oregon
|
Brian, are you going to provide TF with some feedback on the head porting? Be interesting to see how well they understand the cam timing sensitivity. I'm not sure if that is a feature or a bug to them. I think it is a bug for racers although it might be a feature for street guys.
I didn't have the capability of porting the heads so I had to make my changes with the cam. Between Dwane and myself we found a solution. I was surprised at how sensitive the TF heads were to cam timing and lobe profile. If you don't get the right combo the heads aren't happy
Last edited by AndyF; 05/03/23 12:40 PM.
|
|
|
Re: 557 BBM with the new TF intake
[Re: fast68plymouth]
#3142292
05/03/23 02:43 PM
05/03/23 02:43 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,485 SoCal
Brian Hafliger
OP
master
|
OP
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,485
SoCal
|
after reworking the heads, I think I was able to remove that sensitivity issue. My guess would be ....... larger throat %, and/or a steeper seat/top angle perhaps? Correct, throat is probably the largest deal...
Brian Hafliger
|
|
|
Re: 557 BBM with the new TF intake
[Re: AndyF]
#3142294
05/03/23 02:49 PM
05/03/23 02:49 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,485 SoCal
Brian Hafliger
OP
master
|
OP
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,485
SoCal
|
Brian, are you going to provide TF with some feedback on the head porting? Be interesting to see how well they understand the cam timing sensitivity. I'm not sure if that is a feature or a bug to them. I think it is a bug for racers although it might be a feature for street guys.
I didn't have the capability of porting the heads so I had to make my changes with the cam. Between Dwane and myself we found a solution. I was surprised at how sensitive the TF heads were to cam timing and lobe profile. If you don't get the right combo the heads aren't happy I don't think they care what I found, and they aren't asking for any feedback. It's not a bad head, but I needed to make it work for low'ish compression and this CID so that's why I reworked them. In the process of doing that, I found at least a few things that I'm sure are causing the heads to act like you observed. I spent quite a few hours on just finding and correcting the problems, so I'm keeping them close to the vest...but if you start measuring the ports out in the critical areas it becomes clear where the problems are...but until you actually make the changes and run the engine there's still a bit of doubt about the power they can produce. And I was not able to make them as large as I really wanted to in certain area's to get the air speed down, as the castings are really not as thick as I had hoped. In fact, you have to be very careful because they are thin is quite a few area's from a porting stand point. They aren't thin as they come out of the box, just a bit too thin to really open them up to work with larger engines or more rpm.
Brian Hafliger
|
|
|
Re: 557 BBM with the new TF intake
[Re: Brian Hafliger]
#3142304
05/03/23 03:24 PM
05/03/23 03:24 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 31,036 Oregon
AndyF
I Win
|
I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 31,036
Oregon
|
Yeah I remember the engine. Customer wanted 800 hp but needed to use those heads for a reason. He could've made more power with less investment by using a different head but that wasn't in the cards. Looks like you managed to work around the constraints and deliver what the customer needed. Looks like you also learned a few things in the process.
I think we can say the power limit for TF heads is around 800 NA. They make 750 easy as pie but that last 50 hp is the killer!
Last edited by AndyF; 05/03/23 03:25 PM.
|
|
|
Re: 557 BBM with the new TF intake
[Re: AndyF]
#3142317
05/03/23 03:57 PM
05/03/23 03:57 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,485 SoCal
Brian Hafliger
OP
master
|
OP
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,485
SoCal
|
More compression and cam, and use of a vacuum pump should net another 30+HP I would think...
Brian Hafliger
|
|
|
Re: 557 BBM with the new TF intake
[Re: Brian Hafliger]
#3142326
05/03/23 04:35 PM
05/03/23 04:35 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,925 NC
440Jim
I Live Here
|
I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,925
NC
|
11.9:1, customer wants to mix fuel (hopefully he does it every time), Tf 270 heads, not tooooo large solid roller cam, KB block, Molnar crank and rods, Icon pistons. Really wanted 800HP but 795 is pretty close.... https://www.instagram.com/p/Crmg8_2rLF4/ I realize the head mods are special, but can you share the cam specs?
|
|
|
Re: 557 BBM with the new TF intake
[Re: 440Jim]
#3142393
05/03/23 09:50 PM
05/03/23 09:50 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,485 SoCal
Brian Hafliger
OP
master
|
OP
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,485
SoCal
|
Cam is 268-278@ .050, 112 lca. Lift at intake valve is .750 with the springs we're running. I used some of Comp's new inverse roller lobes...I've actually been using them in other engine builds for a while now, really like them.
Brian Hafliger
|
|
|
Re: 557 BBM with the new TF intake
[Re: AndyF]
#3142474
05/04/23 10:43 AM
05/04/23 10:43 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,485 SoCal
Brian Hafliger
OP
master
|
OP
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,485
SoCal
|
Yeah at this cid, roller cams are king!
Brian Hafliger
|
|
|
Re: 557 BBM with the new TF intake
[Re: Streetwize]
#3142540
05/04/23 05:05 PM
05/04/23 05:05 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,485 SoCal
Brian Hafliger
OP
master
|
OP
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,485
SoCal
|
The intake port went 368cfm at .700 and 375 at .750 but is very unstable...just can't get enough area in the port to slow it down enough for higher lift flow and stability. It bounced between 371 and 376 cfm but managed to stay there for the test. After .750 lift it dropped down to 367 or so.
Yes they come from TF with a 2.19 valve.
Brian Hafliger
|
|
|
|
|