Re: wiring in electric fans
[Re: otter440]
#3141243
04/28/23 04:12 PM
04/28/23 04:12 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 26,470 Rio Linda, CA
John_Kunkel
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 26,470
Rio Linda, CA
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The blue wire at the ballast resistor is keyed power but you can only use that to energize a high-current relay to carry the load of the fans.
The INTERNET, the MISinformation superhighway
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Re: wiring in electric fans
[Re: TJP]
#3141309
04/29/23 03:30 AM
04/29/23 03:30 AM
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,108 Valencia, España
NachoRT74
master
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master
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,108
Valencia, España
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A diagram I made quite ago for a full dual fan setup, including the option for the extra cooling when A/C is on. Using temp switches.
With a Charger born in Chrysler assembly plant in Valencia, Venezuela
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Re: wiring in electric fans
[Re: otter440]
#3141449
04/30/23 02:37 AM
04/30/23 02:37 AM
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 714 California
BigDaddy440
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 714
California
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what wire can i use underhood to hook up the wire from the fans so i have power when i turn on the key Thanks A little more info on how you have or plan to have this fan wired would be helpful. A relay switch and possibly a breaker switch is highly recommended to help isolate the load on your electrical / charging system. The relay has four wires: 1) 12v constant from battery 2) 12v remote-on (powered by key switch) 3) Ground 4) Output to Fan. If you run a simple breaker, it goes inline on the 12v constant wire from the battery to the relay. The 12v remote-on source you're looking for can be found in various places. Most fuse panels have extra tabs on a few of the 12v sources that only have power when the key is in the run position. You can simply run a wire from one of these 12v sources to your relay switch. Since this wire only triggers the relay switch "on" they draw very very little current and don't need to be a heavy gauge wire. Fans can draw a lot of current. It's important that you're running a relay meant to handle the load of your fan. Additionally, an electric fan may require an alternator that has an output greater than stock to keep your battery charged. -Dan
1969 A12 Roadrunner 1970 Plymouth Cuda 1968 Dodge Dart
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Re: wiring in electric fans
[Re: otter440]
#3141471
04/30/23 08:58 AM
04/30/23 08:58 AM
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 8,162 USA
360view
Moparts resident spammer
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Moparts resident spammer
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 8,162
USA
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Many good replies already.
To get the full benefit of an electric fan addition, and most $ return on investment from fuel economy, there should be a switch to turn the electric fan off at highway cruise to lessen un-needed air coming in through the grille and going out the bottom of the engine compartment, then flowing against the rough under carriage.
With the fan turned off the engine coolant temperature should be allowed to rise to at least the 220 to 240 degree F level which also improves part throttle engine efficiency, and heats the air up flowing through the throttle so the throttle blades will open up, improving manifold absolute pressure, and lessening the amount of ‘negative work’ the engine produces dragging pistons down against a vacuum on the intake stroke.
Either a knowledgable human driver, or a well written microprocessor program, should decide when to turn this switch on/off.
On top of this recent Ram trucks have grille shutters to lower harmful airflow at part throttle highway cruise.
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Re: wiring in electric fans
[Re: 360view]
#3141472
04/30/23 09:06 AM
04/30/23 09:06 AM
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,904 Pattison Texas
CSK
master
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master
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,904
Pattison Texas
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I use a pulse width controler from Auto cool guy, works awesome, CLICK HERE
1968 Charger COLD A/C Hilborn EFI 512ci 9.7 compression, Stealth heads, 4.10 gear A518 ODtrans 4100lb,10.93 full street car trim 2020 T/A 392 Stock 11.79 @ 114.5
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Re: wiring in electric fans
[Re: NITROUSN]
#3141558
04/30/23 04:34 PM
04/30/23 04:34 PM
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,108 Valencia, España
NachoRT74
master
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master
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,108
Valencia, España
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[ He still needs to check his current draw and charging capacity I installed one large aftermarket electric fan on a drag only car years ago and found that it would draw 70+ amps on startup initially To much amp draw can melt overloaded, to small, wires real quickly That is why the load for these should never be off the alternator stud. Worse on older cars with inductive ammeters and failure prone bulkhead connectors. Alternator should be wired with protection direct to the battery or a buss connector. All loads should be off that point and correctly set up with relays and fuses. With ammeter, all loads must be sourced from alt side of the charging network, never from batt
With a Charger born in Chrysler assembly plant in Valencia, Venezuela
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Re: wiring in electric fans
[Re: NachoRT74]
#3141562
04/30/23 04:50 PM
04/30/23 04:50 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 18,432 UPPER MICHIGAN, MARQUETTE COUN...
NITROUSN
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 18,432
UPPER MICHIGAN, MARQUETTE COUN...
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[ He still needs to check his current draw and charging capacity I installed one large aftermarket electric fan on a drag only car years ago and found that it would draw 70+ amps on startup initially To much amp draw can melt overloaded, to small, wires real quickly That is why the load for these should never be off the alternator stud. Worse on older cars with inductive ammeters and failure prone bulkhead connectors. Alternator should be wired with protection direct to the battery or a buss connector. All loads should be off that point and correctly set up with relays and fuses. With ammeter, all loads must be sourced from alt side of the charging network, never from batt You are so wrong. Anyone that wires these old cars off the alternator stud with old wiring and connections is a hack.
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Re: wiring in electric fans
[Re: INTMD8]
#3141604
04/30/23 08:26 PM
04/30/23 08:26 PM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,632 Motor City
6PKRTSE
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,632
Motor City
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I have dual electric fans. One is wired in and thermostatically controlled to come on automatically through the Racepak. The second one is wired into my overhead switch panel mounted to the cage halo bar.
1963 Belvedere 440 Max Wedge Tribute 1970 Charger R/T S.E. 440 Six Pack 1970 Challenger R/T, 528 Hemi 1970 Charger 500 S.E. 440 4 BBL 1970 Plymouth Road Runner 383 1974 Chrysler New Yorker 440 1996 2500 RAM 488 V-10 4X4 2004 3500 Dually Cummins 4x4 2012 Challenger R/T Classic.
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Re: wiring in electric fans
[Re: NITROUSN]
#3141651
05/01/23 02:55 AM
05/01/23 02:55 AM
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,108 Valencia, España
NachoRT74
master
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master
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,108
Valencia, España
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You are so wrong. Anyone that wires these old cars off the alternator stud with old wiring and connections is a hack.
Two conditions to get it right. Once you add accesories as an upgrade on your car, i.e. electric fans, the alternator must be upgraded accordingly. Stock configuration for a correct ammeter reading is everything must be sourced from alt side. You need just to check a factory diagram to prove this is a must. So the conditions if keeping ammeter on car to be correctly sourced are: -Everything must be sourced from alt side -alt must be upgraded accordingly to the new accesories to keep the right reading and the loads going throught the correct side. Several reasons why wiring on Mopars are a weak spot and this is on 70% of times owners/mechanics fault by the unkownledgement of how the system works. The alt provides what the car and its accesories requires to work and tries to keep the batt fully charged, nothing more, but less is not capable. If you source anything on batt side, more load will go through the stock wiring, bulkhead, ammeter etc… like if the batt will never get fully charged. So if you source, on this case, electric fans correctly on alt stud, the load the alt will supply to source them, WON’T EVER RUN through the stock wiring but straight from alt to the fans relay setup. BUT if you source them on batt side the required load to feed them will be stressing unnecessarily throught the stock system and amm will be constantly on CHARGE side. Which is true, bulkhead is a weak spot, and stock alts are tipically unable to keep the batt charged at iddle, hence why when revving up the engine, the ammeter senses CHARGE. This is increased with loads hooked up on batt side as mentioned. The only moments weakness of the stock system becomes critical sourcing CORRECTLY the added accesories on alt side is when the alt is unable to source most of the required loads (or engine is off, so does the alt ) and battery becomes on the constant main source. This is the moment when the ammeter becomes on a dancing gauge going back and forward along with engine revs. The more load going back and forth along the charging system, the more heat is able to get and this is the moment becomes on a dangerous stage. Since the beginning EVERYONE began to source added accesories on batt side. This along with the weak bulkhead spot (which is true) and the unneficient stock alts at iddle is what got our Mopars burning wiring along the years. Add to this, ppl “upgrading” batteries with more reserve capacity to hold added accesories, which it took MORE time to keep them charged by the uneficient stock alts… so more stress to the system. So in conclusion: Hook up the fans on alt stud and upgrade the alternator are the correct way to proceed to keep safe the wiring and ammeter and EVEN THE BULKHEAD conector, because bulkhead won’t get ever this load correctly soorcing the fans. But is true some easy wiring mods are advice just in case, like save the bulkhead connections with some paths and wiring upgrades… which has been already shown and discussed in the past on several threads when talking about alt upgrades and those who thinks the ammeter bypass ( or the jumpong wire between alt and batt ) is the solution. No need to jump out batt with alt, which bypasses the amm reading. And with the correct procedures, the ammeter will be still safe and reading strong and correctly Being there done that, on a driver ( A REAL DRIVER ) 74 Mopar on a heavy transit city. Which is also true is when proceeding with any add on or upgrade, the related system must be correctly checked to be sure if will survive to the new part or upgrade.
With a Charger born in Chrysler assembly plant in Valencia, Venezuela
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Re: wiring in electric fans
[Re: NachoRT74]
#3141693
05/01/23 10:38 AM
05/01/23 10:38 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 18,432 UPPER MICHIGAN, MARQUETTE COUN...
NITROUSN
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 18,432
UPPER MICHIGAN, MARQUETTE COUN...
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You are so wrong. Anyone that wires these old cars off the alternator stud with old wiring and connections is a hack.
Two conditions to get it right. Once you add accesories as an upgrade on your car, i.e. electric fans, the alternator must be upgraded accordingly. Stock configuration for a correct ammeter reading is everything must be sourced from alt side. You need just to check a diagram to prove this is a must. So the conditions if keeping ammeter on car to be correctly sourced are: -Everything must be sourced from alt side -alt must be upgraded accordingly to the new accesories to keep the right reading and the loads going throught the correct side. Several reasons why wiring on Mopars are a weak spot and this is on 70% of times owners/mechanics fault by the unkownledgement of how the system works. The alt provides what the car and its accesories requires to work and tries to keep the batt fully charged, nothing more, but less is not capable. If you source anything on batt side, more load will go through the stock wiring, bulkhead, ammeter etc… like if the batt will never get fully charged. So if you source, on this case, electric fans correctly on alt stud, the load the alt will supply to source them, WON’T EVER RUN through the stock wiring but straight from alt to the fans relay setup. BUT if you source them on batt side the required load to feed them will be stressing unnecessarily throught the stock system and amm will be constantly on CHARGE side. Which is true, bulkhead is a weak spot, and stock alts are tipically unable to keep the batt charged at iddle, hence why when revving up the engine, the ammeter senses CHARGE. This is increased with loads hooked up on batt side as mentioned. The only moments weakness of the stock system becomes critical sourcing CORRECTLY the added accesories on alt side is when the alt is unable to source most of the required loads (or engine is off, so does the alt ) and battery becomes on the constant main source. This is the moment when the ammeter becomes on a dancing gauge going back and forward along with engine revs. The more load going back and forth along the charging system, the more heat is able to get and this is the moment becomes on a dangerous stage. Since the beginning EVERYONE began to source added accesories on batt side. This along with the weak bulkhead spot (which is true) and the unneficient stock alts at iddle is what got our Mopars burning wiring along the years. Add to this, ppl “upgrading” batteries with more reserve capacity to hold added accesories, which it took MORE time to keep them charged by the uneficient stock alts… so more stress to the system. So in conclusion: Hook up the fans on alt stud and upgrade the alternator are the correct way to proceed to keep safe the wiring and ammeter and EVEN THE BULKHEAD conector, because bulkhead won’t get ever this load correctly soorcing the fans. But is true some easy wiring mods are advice just in case, like save the bulkhead connections with some paths and wiring upgrades… which has been already shown and discussed in the past on several threads when talking about alt upgrades and those who thinks the ammeter bypass ( or the jumpong wire between alt and batt ) is the solution. No need to jump out batt with alt, which bypasses the amm reading. And with the correct procedures, the ammeter will be still safe and reading strong and correctly Being there done that, on a driver ( A REAL DRIVER ) 74 Mopar on a heavy transit city. Which is also true is when proceeding with any add on or upgrade, the related system must be correctly checked to be sure if will survive to the new part or upgrade. Wrong. You show me one car or truck that the loads are sourced off the alternator stud. Show me do not avoid this direct question with mambo jambo. Next tell me with your VooDoo alternator stud taking all the add on load what happens when the alternator quits charging??? Where does that load no go? Answer that. There are right ways to do this and yours is not it.
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Re: wiring in electric fans
[Re: NITROUSN]
#3141706
05/01/23 11:09 AM
05/01/23 11:09 AM
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,108 Valencia, España
NachoRT74
master
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master
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,108
Valencia, España
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You are so wrong. Anyone that wires these old cars off the alternator stud with old wiring and connections is a hack.
Two conditions to get it right. Once you add accesories as an upgrade on your car, i.e. electric fans, the alternator must be upgraded accordingly. Stock configuration for a correct ammeter reading is everything must be sourced from alt side. You need just to check a diagram to prove this is a must. So the conditions if keeping ammeter on car to be correctly sourced are: -Everything must be sourced from alt side -alt must be upgraded accordingly to the new accesories to keep the right reading and the loads going throught the correct side. Several reasons why wiring on Mopars are a weak spot and this is on 70% of times owners/mechanics fault by the unkownledgement of how the system works. The alt provides what the car and its accesories requires to work and tries to keep the batt fully charged, nothing more, but less is not capable. If you source anything on batt side, more load will go through the stock wiring, bulkhead, ammeter etc… like if the batt will never get fully charged. So if you source, on this case, electric fans correctly on alt stud, the load the alt will supply to source them, WON’T EVER RUN through the stock wiring but straight from alt to the fans relay setup. BUT if you source them on batt side the required load to feed them will be stressing unnecessarily throught the stock system and amm will be constantly on CHARGE side. Which is true, bulkhead is a weak spot, and stock alts are tipically unable to keep the batt charged at iddle, hence why when revving up the engine, the ammeter senses CHARGE. This is increased with loads hooked up on batt side as mentioned. The only moments weakness of the stock system becomes critical sourcing CORRECTLY the added accesories on alt side is when the alt is unable to source most of the required loads (or engine is off, so does the alt ) and battery becomes on the constant main source. This is the moment when the ammeter becomes on a dancing gauge going back and forward along with engine revs. The more load going back and forth along the charging system, the more heat is able to get and this is the moment becomes on a dangerous stage. Since the beginning EVERYONE began to source added accesories on batt side. This along with the weak bulkhead spot (which is true) and the unneficient stock alts at iddle is what got our Mopars burning wiring along the years. Add to this, ppl “upgrading” batteries with more reserve capacity to hold added accesories, which it took MORE time to keep them charged by the uneficient stock alts… so more stress to the system. So in conclusion: Hook up the fans on alt stud and upgrade the alternator are the correct way to proceed to keep safe the wiring and ammeter and EVEN THE BULKHEAD conector, because bulkhead won’t get ever this load correctly soorcing the fans. But is true some easy wiring mods are advice just in case, like save the bulkhead connections with some paths and wiring upgrades… which has been already shown and discussed in the past on several threads when talking about alt upgrades and those who thinks the ammeter bypass ( or the jumpong wire between alt and batt ) is the solution. No need to jump out batt with alt, which bypasses the amm reading. And with the correct procedures, the ammeter will be still safe and reading strong and correctly Being there done that, on a driver ( A REAL DRIVER ) 74 Mopar on a heavy transit city. Which is also true is when proceeding with any add on or upgrade, the related system must be correctly checked to be sure if will survive to the new part or upgrade. Wrong. You show me one car or truck that the loads are sourced off the alternator stud. Show me do not avoid this direct question with mambo jambo. Next tell me with your VooDoo alternator stud taking all the add on load what happens when the alternator quits charging??? Where does that load no go? Answer that. There are right ways to do this and yours is not it. ALL CARS ( not just Mopars ) with ammeters are sourced from the alt side of the ammeter... no matter where... if straight from the alt stud, the ammeter stud or an intermediate splice... as far the loads are taken from the alt side of the ammeter. diff stuff you tipically never see anything hooked up to the alt stud because splices are down the tape harness, but for new adds without untape the harnes, the two points to source correctly new accs are amm stud or alt stud
With a Charger born in Chrysler assembly plant in Valencia, Venezuela
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Re: wiring in electric fans
[Re: NachoRT74]
#3141711
05/01/23 11:25 AM
05/01/23 11:25 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 18,432 UPPER MICHIGAN, MARQUETTE COUN...
NITROUSN
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 18,432
UPPER MICHIGAN, MARQUETTE COUN...
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You are so wrong. Anyone that wires these old cars off the alternator stud with old wiring and connections is a hack.
Two conditions to get it right. Once you add accesories as an upgrade on your car, i.e. electric fans, the alternator must be upgraded accordingly. Stock configuration for a correct ammeter reading is everything must be sourced from alt side. You need just to check a diagram to prove this is a must. So the conditions if keeping ammeter on car to be correctly sourced are: -Everything must be sourced from alt side -alt must be upgraded accordingly to the new accesories to keep the right reading and the loads going throught the correct side. Several reasons why wiring on Mopars are a weak spot and this is on 70% of times owners/mechanics fault by the unkownledgement of how the system works. The alt provides what the car and its accesories requires to work and tries to keep the batt fully charged, nothing more, but less is not capable. If you source anything on batt side, more load will go through the stock wiring, bulkhead, ammeter etc… like if the batt will never get fully charged. So if you source, on this case, electric fans correctly on alt stud, the load the alt will supply to source them, WON’T EVER RUN through the stock wiring but straight from alt to the fans relay setup. BUT if you source them on batt side the required load to feed them will be stressing unnecessarily throught the stock system and amm will be constantly on CHARGE side. Which is true, bulkhead is a weak spot, and stock alts are tipically unable to keep the batt charged at iddle, hence why when revving up the engine, the ammeter senses CHARGE. This is increased with loads hooked up on batt side as mentioned. The only moments weakness of the stock system becomes critical sourcing CORRECTLY the added accesories on alt side is when the alt is unable to source most of the required loads (or engine is off, so does the alt ) and battery becomes on the constant main source. This is the moment when the ammeter becomes on a dancing gauge going back and forward along with engine revs. The more load going back and forth along the charging system, the more heat is able to get and this is the moment becomes on a dangerous stage. Since the beginning EVERYONE began to source added accesories on batt side. This along with the weak bulkhead spot (which is true) and the unneficient stock alts at iddle is what got our Mopars burning wiring along the years. Add to this, ppl “upgrading” batteries with more reserve capacity to hold added accesories, which it took MORE time to keep them charged by the uneficient stock alts… so more stress to the system. So in conclusion: Hook up the fans on alt stud and upgrade the alternator are the correct way to proceed to keep safe the wiring and ammeter and EVEN THE BULKHEAD conector, because bulkhead won’t get ever this load correctly soorcing the fans. But is true some easy wiring mods are advice just in case, like save the bulkhead connections with some paths and wiring upgrades… which has been already shown and discussed in the past on several threads when talking about alt upgrades and those who thinks the ammeter bypass ( or the jumpong wire between alt and batt ) is the solution. No need to jump out batt with alt, which bypasses the amm reading. And with the correct procedures, the ammeter will be still safe and reading strong and correctly Being there done that, on a driver ( A REAL DRIVER ) 74 Mopar on a heavy transit city. Which is also true is when proceeding with any add on or upgrade, the related system must be correctly checked to be sure if will survive to the new part or upgrade. Wrong. You show me one car or truck that the loads are sourced off the alternator stud. Show me do not avoid this direct question with mambo jambo. Next tell me with your VooDoo alternator stud taking all the add on load what happens when the alternator quits charging??? Where does that load no go? Answer that. There are right ways to do this and yours is not it. ALL CARS ( not just Mopars ) with ammeters are sourced from the alt side of the ammeter... no matter where... if straight from the alt stud, the ammeter stud or an intermediate splice... as far the loads are taken from the alt side of the ammeter. diff stuff you tipically never see anything hooked up to the alt stud because splices are down the tape harness, but for new adds without untape the harnes, the two points to source correctly new accs are amm stud or alt stud You never answered all the questions.
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Re: wiring in electric fans
[Re: NachoRT74]
#3141712
05/01/23 11:29 AM
05/01/23 11:29 AM
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,108 Valencia, España
NachoRT74
master
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master
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,108
Valencia, España
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unfortunatelly the thread where I explain all details about upgrades of the charging system got missed the attachments due a forum software upgrade. Will work on recover those, but for a while: https://www.forbbodiesonly.com/moparforum/threads/poll-about-ammeter-reading.198930/page-3 ( linking to the 3rd page whre I begin to put pics about how the charging system works ) http://www.heritech.org/cuda/Charge.htmlquestions are answered on dozens of threads where this has been discussed. BUT just begin with those. I can post many but don't wnat to highjack the thread (more). BTW, diagrams are mine... which I made back in 2007... weird you haven't seen these also on Moparts. all answers you posted are on diagrams and their explanations...
Last edited by NachoRT74; 05/01/23 11:36 AM.
With a Charger born in Chrysler assembly plant in Valencia, Venezuela
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