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Re: HYDROGEN POWER vs Diesel vs Battery hmmmm interesting [Re: Soopernaut] #3128707
03/12/23 09:44 AM
03/12/23 09:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Soopernaut
Why is Ammonia as a fuel never brought up?

120 octane
$0.85 per gallon
It can be made from air and water.
It's less flammable than gasoline or hydrogen.
It can be stored at higher temperatures or lower pressures than hydrogen.
Emissions would be nitrogen and water vapor.
It can be mixed with gasoline or diesel.
Most newer engines can run on 10% without modification and up to around 80% with few modifications.


Because it stinks shruggy

Re: HYDROGEN POWER vs Diesel vs Battery hmmmm interesting [Re: A12] #3128719
03/12/23 10:15 AM
03/12/23 10:15 AM
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Ammonia can kill you. I used to help a commercial refrigeration company years ago. Ammonia will go straight to moisture such as your eyes or lungs. A major vapor leak can clear a production facility quite quickly! wave


The end is near.....
Re: HYDROGEN POWER vs Diesel vs Battery hmmmm interesting [Re: John Brown] #3128773
03/12/23 01:10 PM
03/12/23 01:10 PM
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Originally Posted by John Brown


Here's what windmills are good for. Shade.



Not a coinsidence that those are SHEEP in the shade of the windmill!!

Just don’t buy a electric vehicle. Not you, you family or friends. When nobody buys them they choke on them.

VW Toyota and Tesla all agree there is not enough infrastructure to charge these cars. Those only place not concerned about this or the massive pollution associated with producing and disposing of these batteries the is US gubment.

Re: HYDROGEN POWER vs Diesel vs Battery hmmmm interesting [Re: tboomer] #3128948
03/13/23 08:15 AM
03/13/23 08:15 AM
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Originally Posted by tboomer
Ammonia can kill you. I used to help a commercial refrigeration company years ago. Ammonia will go straight to moisture such as your eyes or lungs. A major vapor leak can clear a production facility quite quickly! wave


Any fuel source can kill you if not used safely. Ammonia is the 2nd most manufactured chemical in the world and is already used as a fuel, just not on a wide scale. It would likely be in tanks similar to propane or LPG. There is some information about the safety features that would have to be implemented here: https://www.osti.gov/etdeweb/servlets/purl/20607161


1970 Dodge d100/eventually going on a 77 D100 frame
Re: HYDROGEN POWER vs Diesel vs Battery hmmmm interesting [Re: Sniper] #3129214
03/13/23 10:59 PM
03/13/23 10:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Sniper
Originally Posted by A12
Originally Posted by Sniper
Only works if you don't look at how hydrogen is actually made NOW.


I think about the same thing was said about oil, gasoline, diesel and kerosene back in the mid 1800's. Eventually there will be a John Davison Rockefeller type company come along and figure out how to "git er done". It will be just as cheap as making batteries or cheaper and China won't have everyone by the ba........ just my twocents


Gee, we could just use fusion power to generate the hydrogen, should be ready in sometime in the next 30 years, which they have been saying for the late 50+ years.

IOW, don't count your chickens till the egg hatches.


Yep, thirty years away…and always will be. Keep giving us money to work on it though.


I want my fair share
Re: HYDROGEN POWER vs Diesel vs Battery hmmmm interesting [Re: SomeCarGuy] #3129219
03/14/23 12:38 AM
03/14/23 12:38 AM
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Watch hydrogen technology accelerate (pun intended) when F1 and other racing start using it. Just watched a YouTube video showing someone filling a Towyucka from nearly empty to full in 4 minutes and 30 seconds (4:30) for a 300+mile range. The main thing that is holding it back is the same thing that held EV's back refilling infrastructure and that's what held gasoline powered horseless carriages back too. It will happen much sooner than we think especially if there's money to be made.......and the petroleum industry will again lead the way. They have the best chance at it as they already have the best locations across the country with existing gas stations. Won't take much to add a hydrogen pump or two that will take less than 5 minutes to fill a vehicle, way less time than recharging an EV. Makes too much sense IMO. Big trucks and possibly trains will for sure be on board with a better infrastructure maybe sooner rather than later than passenger vehicles.

Re: HYDROGEN POWER vs Diesel vs Battery hmmmm interesting [Re: 360view] #3129231
03/14/23 06:18 AM
03/14/23 06:18 AM
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We should keep in mind that Hydrogen “embrittles” many metals and cause failures through cracking.

We should also keep in mind that today’s “Snowflake” college engineering students do not have to take a required “Failure Analysis” class their senior year.

We should also keep in mind that the lowest grade that an engineering student can get is a B rather than an F.

Give a university science student a B+ rather than an well deserved F and it is highly probable that the student’s parent will call both the class instructor and University Vice President and threaten a lawsuit.

Re: HYDROGEN POWER vs Diesel vs Battery hmmmm interesting [Re: 360view] #3129267
03/14/23 09:00 AM
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Right on cue,
Greenies say Hydrogen future would make Methane worse...

https://phys.org/news/2023-03-hydrogen-fuel-prolong-methane-problem.html

Re: HYDROGEN POWER vs Diesel vs Battery hmmmm interesting [Re: 360view] #3129569
03/15/23 08:04 AM
03/15/23 08:04 AM
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Originally Posted by 360view
Right on cue,
Greenies say Hydrogen future would make Methane worse...

https://phys.org/news/2023-03-hydrogen-fuel-prolong-methane-problem.html


Got it. Hydrogen could be bad if leakage occurs on a large scale. Yeah, I wonder what other fuels would be bad if they leaked on a large scale.

Which reminds me, I remember 15-20 years ago hearing no one would want a car with a tank full of hydrogen given how explosive it is. Because what, gasoline is not explosive? Hello Ford Pinto

Re: HYDROGEN POWER vs Diesel vs Battery hmmmm interesting [Re: 360view] #3129622
03/15/23 12:05 PM
03/15/23 12:05 PM
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I wonder who paid for that study and if they made sure the people doing that study knew what results they, the payee, wanted from that study work rant shruggy


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: HYDROGEN POWER vs Diesel vs Battery hmmmm interesting [Re: 360view] #3129740
03/15/23 07:21 PM
03/15/23 07:21 PM
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Originally Posted by 360view
We should keep in mind that Hydrogen “embrittles” many metals and cause failures through cracking.

We should also keep in mind that today’s “Snowflake” college engineering students do not have to take a required “Failure Analysis” class their senior year.

We should also keep in mind that the lowest grade that an engineering student can get is a B rather than an F.

Give a university science student a B+ rather than an well deserved F and it is highly probable that the student’s parent will call both the class instructor and University Vice President and threaten a lawsuit.


Ugh. Wish it wasn’t so. But I have three kids just out of college, and know what you say is true. The bar is a lot lower.

Re: HYDROGEN POWER vs Diesel vs Battery hmmmm interesting [Re: BSB67] #3129800
03/16/23 03:34 AM
03/16/23 03:34 AM
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Cal Tech and MIT still have tenured professors who resist this grade inflation.

MIT still is admitting roughly twice the freshman class size,
and “washing out” engineering students with challenging introductory classes.

In the old days these washed out MIT first year students enrolled in other universities for their 2nd year,
but today many transfer to the non-science, low math skill majors added to MIT in recent decades.

India and mainland China copied the old MIT freshman “weed out” tradition at their tech institutes,
which remain grueling.
Notice all the Indian tech university graduates near the top of USA and UK companies?

Re: HYDROGEN POWER vs Diesel vs Battery hmmmm interesting [Re: wjb123] #3129801
03/16/23 03:43 AM
03/16/23 03:43 AM
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Originally Posted by wjb123
Originally Posted by 360view
Right on cue,
Greenies say Hydrogen future would make Methane worse...

https://phys.org/news/2023-03-hydrogen-fuel-prolong-methane-problem.html


Got it. Hydrogen could be bad if leakage occurs on a large scale. Yeah, I wonder what other fuels would be bad if they leaked on a large scale.

Which reminds me, I remember 15-20 years ago hearing no one would want a car with a tank full of hydrogen given how explosive it is. Because what, gasoline is not explosive? Hello Ford Pinto


How many here have seen the demo that used to be given by Oxy-Acetylene salesman:

Fill a toy ballon with just acetylene gas up to basketball size,
light it with an open flame,
get a modest “pop.”

Fill a toy ballon with the correct mix of both oxygen and acetylene but only up to grapefruit size,
light it with an open flame,
get a starlingly loud explosion of M80 fireworks intensity ?

Re: HYDROGEN POWER vs Diesel vs Battery hmmmm interesting [Re: 360view] #3130153
03/17/23 01:25 PM
03/17/23 01:25 PM
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Wasn't there something called a hydrogen bomb?

Re: HYDROGEN POWER vs Diesel vs Battery hmmmm interesting [Re: TooMany62s] #3130158
03/17/23 01:43 PM
03/17/23 01:43 PM
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Originally Posted by TooMany62s


Wasn't there something called a hydrogen bomb?


Kind of like asking "wasn't there something called an atom bomb?" You know there are atoms in gasoline and gasoline is explosive too there Pinto. wink grin

[quote]There are 3.785 L in one gallon. Assume that the molecular formula for gasoline is C6H14 and that the density of gasoline is approximately 0.85 grams/mL. There are 4.50 x 1026 atoms in 1 gallon of gasoline.[/quote]

What's the count now for states that are banning gasoline powered vehicles by 2035, think it's approaching about half the states. Bye, bye ICE. wave wave

Re: HYDROGEN POWER vs Diesel vs Battery hmmmm interesting [Re: A12] #3130213
03/17/23 06:36 PM
03/17/23 06:36 PM
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Originally Posted by A12
[quote=TooMany62s]

Wasn't there something called a hydrogen bomb?


Kind of like asking "wasn't there something called an atom bomb?" You know there are atoms in gasoline and gasoline is explosive too there Pinto. wink grin

Quote
There are 3.785 L in one gallon. Assume that the molecular formula for gasoline is C6H14 and that the density of gasoline is approximately 0.85 grams/mL. There are 4.50 x 1026 atoms in 1 gallon of gasoline.[/quote]

What's the count now for states that are banning gasoline powered vehicles by 2035, think it's approaching about half the states. Bye, bye ICE. wave wave

That 4.5 x 1026 can’t be right, must be a whole lot of zeros missing

Re: HYDROGEN POWER vs Diesel vs Battery hmmmm interesting [Re: cudaman1969] #3130247
03/17/23 10:15 PM
03/17/23 10:15 PM
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Originally Posted by cudaman1969


Quote
There are 3.785 L in one gallon. Assume that the molecular formula for gasoline is C6H14 and that the density of gasoline is approximately 0.85 grams/mL. There are 4.50 x 1026 atoms in 1 gallon of gasoline.[/quote]

What's the count now for states that are banning gasoline powered vehicles by 2035, think it's approaching about half the states. Bye, bye ICE. wave wave

That 4.5 x 1026 can’t be right, must be a whole lot of zeros missing


I'm guessing he meant "4.5 x 10^26?"

Re: HYDROGEN POWER vs Diesel vs Battery hmmmm interesting [Re: TooMany62s] #3130267
03/18/23 06:31 AM
03/18/23 06:31 AM
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Originally Posted by TooMany62s


Wasn't there something called a hydrogen bomb?


As luck would have it,
“13 lucky miles away as the crow flies”
from where the acetylene/oxygen gas in the toy ballon was ignited
there were Thermo-nuclear Hydrogen bombs in storage
plus three varieties of nerve gases in aerial bombs, artillery shells, and mortar bombs.

“There must have been quite high security guarding those”
you might think.

In another odd accident a few years later,
I was present when when the US Army Colonel in charge of that storage area
was told by a Railroad employee that the security gate where the railroad entered the storage area
had been crashed into and destroyed 6 days earlier
by sole fault of the railroad crew, and the railroad was willing to totally pay for its replacement.

The Colonel got a weird look on his face and turned around and picked up a notebook,
turned pages looking at entries,
asked the railroad employee again:
what date and time did this gate get destroyed?

The Army guards had been too lazy to walk down and carry out their duty to inspect that gate.

Years later a special plant was built to chemically neutralize the nerve gas filled weapons.
Pipe welds in that plant were to be 100% x-rayed.
The x-rays that showed defective welds were faked to show good welds.
All the welds had to be ground out and re-done at great time delay and expense.

Ignorance is bliss.
It probably is even worse than you suspect.

Re: HYDROGEN POWER vs Diesel vs Battery hmmmm interesting [Re: 360view] #3130462
03/18/23 10:58 PM
03/18/23 10:58 PM
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Originally Posted by 360view
Originally Posted by TooMany62s


Wasn't there something called a hydrogen bomb?


As luck would have it,
“13 lucky miles away as the crow flies”
from where the acetylene/oxygen gas in the toy ballon was ignited
there were Thermo-nuclear Hydrogen bombs in storage
plus three varieties of nerve gases in aerial bombs, artillery shells, and mortar bombs.

“There must have been quite high security guarding those”
you might think.

In another odd accident a few years later,
I was present when when the US Army Colonel in charge of that storage area
was told by a Railroad employee that the security gate where the railroad entered the storage area
had been crashed into and destroyed 6 days earlier
by sole fault of the railroad crew, and the railroad was willing to totally pay for its replacement.

The Colonel got a weird look on his face and turned around and picked up a notebook,
turned pages looking at entries,
asked the railroad employee again:
what date and time did this gate get destroyed?

The Army guards had been too lazy to walk down and carry out their duty to inspect that gate.

Years later a special plant was built to chemically neutralize the nerve gas filled weapons.
Pipe welds in that plant were to be 100% x-rayed.
The x-rays that showed defective welds were faked to show good welds.
All the welds had to be ground out and re-done at great time delay and expense.

Ignorance is bliss.
It probably is even worse than you suspect.



Sounds like your local hospital. Or doctors office.


I want my fair share
Re: HYDROGEN POWER vs Diesel vs Battery hmmmm interesting [Re: 360view] #3131609
03/23/23 07:05 AM
03/23/23 07:05 AM
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Wall Street Journal has article today stating that
European Union just past a new law
giving a 3 Euro subsidy to Green Hydrogen per Kilogram,
which slightly betters the
$3 per Kilogram subsidy buried deep in the USA “Inflation Reduction Act” law.

Gallon of gasoline roughly 6 to 7 pounds depending on basestock oil and % ethanol.
Roughly 3 kilograms (although there is a BTU per lbm difference between hydrogen and other fuel to take into account)

Ahh,
imagine getting 3 x $3 =$9 credit for buying a gallon of gasoline today.

An even better deal than the
26 cent per gallon price back in year 1959
on the gasoline pumps left unchanged at President Eisenhower’s house at Gettysburg National Park.

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