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Re: SURGING Six Pack carbs [Re: mopar346] #310216 06/01/14 11:41 AM 06/01/14 11:41 AM
Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 36,040 Lincoln Nebraska R RapidRobert Circle Track
RapidRobert Circle Track R Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 36,040 Lincoln Nebraska	unless the idle speed screw is jacked way up for whatever reason I'm thinking the way high idle speed and the lean surge are both from a vac leak (just thinkin out loud before I have my coffee) live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth

Re: SURGING Six Pack carbs [Re: lokalik] #310217 06/01/14 11:42 AM 06/01/14 11:42 AM
Joined: Jul 2007 Posts: 11,836 Florida M mopar346 Let me tell ya about fat chicks!
mopar346 Let me tell ya about fat chicks! M Joined: Jul 2007 Posts: 11,836 Florida	Quote: not sue if this matters, just trying to help with ideas. what is your manifold vac and what power valve are you using? I haven't double checked it in this set configuration but 12ish at the time I have and I am running a 6.5. I verified that it wasn't ruptured Friday when I took the pictures of the metering plate. At this point I am listening to just about anything. Careful, your character's showing!

Re: SURGING Six Pack carbs [Re: mopar346] #310218 06/01/14 02:44 PM 06/01/14 02:44 PM
Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 43,141 Bend,OR USA C Cab_Burge I Win
Cab_Burge I Win C Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 43,141 Bend,OR USA	Try adjusting the outboard idle mixture screws in the base plates to 1/4 to 1/3 out from gently bottomed out I found out the hard way that reducing or enlarging the idle mixture bleeds ended up affecting the AFR from idle to WOT Lots of gremlins out there Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)

Re: SURGING Six Pack carbs [Re: RapidRobert] #310219 06/01/14 11:26 PM 06/01/14 11:26 PM
Joined: Jul 2007 Posts: 11,836 Florida M mopar346 Let me tell ya about fat chicks!
mopar346 Let me tell ya about fat chicks! M Joined: Jul 2007 Posts: 11,836 Florida	Quote: unless the idle speed screw is jacked way up for whatever reason I'm thinking the way high idle speed and the lean surge are both from a vac leak (just thinkin out loud before I have my coffee) That is the common logic but I'll be darned if I can find it, possibly from the bottom of the intake but no signs of sucking up oil. I cant say I know a to check the bottom with it assembled. The other thing that leans away from that is that it idles pretty much fine with the 64 jets. Careful, your character's showing!

Re: SURGING Six Pack carbs [Re: Cab_Burge] #310220 06/01/14 11:35 PM 06/01/14 11:35 PM
Joined: Jul 2007 Posts: 11,836 Florida M mopar346 Let me tell ya about fat chicks!
mopar346 Let me tell ya about fat chicks! M Joined: Jul 2007 Posts: 11,836 Florida	Quote: Try adjusting the outboard idle mixture screws in the base plates to 1/4 to 1/3 out from gently bottomed out I found out the hard way that reducing or enlarging the idle mixture bleeds ended up affecting the AFR from idle to WOT Lots of gremlins out there That is where they are. I was able to adjust most of my idle issue out with a little more timing and some adjusting today but it has me a 38* on total mechanical advance and 46* with the vacuum, so I have the vacuum unplugged currently. I think I am gonna pull the distributor tomorrow and work on shorting the mechanical. It's running a touch rich for my liking but not bad, better rich than lean that's for sure. Careful, your character's showing!

Re: SURGING Six Pack carbs [Re: mopar346] #310221 06/02/14 12:20 PM 06/02/14 12:20 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 15,750 Jefferson State S srt ESYC
srt ESYC S Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 15,750 Jefferson State	Did you get the opportunity to block off all vacuum lines and components to the intake/carbs? Pulling the intake and re-installing it with known good procedures and blocking vac ports will quickly remove those sources of potential problem. Running rich is not right. It seems (and is correct) that the problem is most apparent when you are getting the fuel mixture close to where it is optimal. Vac leak remains highly suspect.

Re: SURGING Six Pack carbs [Re: srt] #310222 06/02/14 12:30 PM 06/02/14 12:30 PM
Joined: Jul 2007 Posts: 11,836 Florida M mopar346 Let me tell ya about fat chicks!
mopar346 Let me tell ya about fat chicks! M Joined: Jul 2007 Posts: 11,836 Florida	Quote: Did you get the opportunity to block off all vacuum lines and components to the intake/carbs? Pulling the intake and re-installing it with known good procedures and blocking vac ports will quickly remove those sources of potential problem. Running rich is not right. It seems (and is correct) that the problem is most apparent when you are getting the fuel mixture close to where it is optimal. Vac leak remains highly suspect. Yes, I blocked off all vacuum lines at one point. I am beginning to think the intake is coming off but want to work with the timing first, I can get it real close but it throughs my total timing too high for comfort. I need to ask some advance questions but will start another tread for that. Careful, your character's showing!

Re: SURGING Six Pack carbs [Re: mopar346] #310223 06/02/14 01:52 PM 06/02/14 01:52 PM
Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 36,040 Lincoln Nebraska R RapidRobert Circle Track
RapidRobert Circle Track R Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 36,040 Lincoln Nebraska	I'd suggest keeping this all in the same thread. 36-38 is a tried and true BB advance total (not counting vac adv) so with you capping the can You are OK for the moment. I would continue searching for the culprit then we can fine tune the timing later. yes timing gets finalzied before carburetion but we have an issue to find and fix first live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth

Re: SURGING Six Pack carbs [Re: RapidRobert] #310224 06/02/14 02:07 PM 06/02/14 02:07 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 3,681 South San Francisco, Ca 70sixpkrt master
70sixpkrt master Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 3,681 South San Francisco, Ca	Are the butterflies closing all the way? I was at a car show yesterday and talking to a guy that had richness problems. He took apart brand new carbs and found out the butterflies were not closing all the way. Just a suggestion. [img]http://www.imgur.com/hxlGUJt.gif[/img] 4-speed 3:54 Dana 13.01 @107.93 with street tires (not hooking up)

Re: SURGING Six Pack carbs [Re: RapidRobert] #310225 06/02/14 08:35 PM 06/02/14 08:35 PM
Joined: Jul 2007 Posts: 11,836 Florida M mopar346 Let me tell ya about fat chicks!
mopar346 Let me tell ya about fat chicks! M Joined: Jul 2007 Posts: 11,836 Florida	Quote: I'd suggest keeping this all in the same thread. 36-38 is a tried and true BB advance total (not counting vac adv) so with you capping the can You are OK for the moment. I would continue searching for the culprit then we can fine tune the timing later. yes timing gets finalzied before carburetion but we have an issue to find and fix first It's a 340 and I considered keeping it in one place but thought a separate thread on the timing might be in order. And then there is the one on the plugs. Yuck, I will double check but they seem to be. Careful, your character's showing!

Re: SURGING Six Pack carbs [Re: mopar346] #310226 06/03/14 11:07 PM 06/03/14 11:07 PM
Joined: Jul 2007 Posts: 11,836 Florida M mopar346 Let me tell ya about fat chicks!
mopar346 Let me tell ya about fat chicks! M Joined: Jul 2007 Posts: 11,836 Florida	Bit the bullet today and pulled the intake, there was just too many things lining you to say vacuum leak. I found one thing that was suspect but not conclusive, I'm letting it sit overnight and will fire it midday tomorrow and see what if anything changed. I just knew if I didn't it would be nawing at me on my drive and heaven forbid it caused a problem on the road and I had to deal with it or worse a failure I couldn't deal with quickly. I report back tomorrow. Careful, your character's showing!

Re: SURGING Six Pack carbs [Re: mopar346] #310227 06/04/14 11:21 PM 06/04/14 11:21 PM
Joined: Jul 2007 Posts: 11,836 Florida M mopar346 Let me tell ya about fat chicks!
mopar346 Let me tell ya about fat chicks! M Joined: Jul 2007 Posts: 11,836 Florida	Well I used a Mr. Gasket ultra seal gasket and the only thing it did was make my choke stove not work due to the intake not getting hot enough and it now has a longer warm start than before replacing the intake gasket. I have monkeyed with this thing for 2 weeks and it has gone down hill from where I had it originally. Everytime I go back to my basic settings it runs properly and just has the surge. I have to leave Friday morning so hopefully I have it where nothing will go wrong until I get to PA and I can work on the distributor up there. I am beginning to wonder is the setting by Tom and Dayclona for best performance or for best behavior? Cause short of the Carter pump and the distributor I have done everything to the T with poor results. I know common thought is I am screwing something up or I don't know what I am doing but it's funny my settings make it run right and everything works properly. Careful, your character's showing!

Re: SURGING Six Pack carbs [Re: mopar346] #310228 06/05/14 12:09 AM 06/05/14 12:09 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 9,436 Blair County,PA 62maxwgn master
62maxwgn master Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 9,436 Blair County,PA	Out of curiosity,what carb base gasket are you using?If you are using the thin black gasket they will never seal if the base is not square,the only gasket I would ever use is the 2/32" O.E.M. tan cardboard gasket. where in PA might you be going ?

Re: SURGING Six Pack carbs [Re: 62maxwgn] #310229 06/05/14 12:33 AM 06/05/14 12:33 AM
Joined: Jul 2007 Posts: 11,836 Florida M mopar346 Let me tell ya about fat chicks!
mopar346 Let me tell ya about fat chicks! M Joined: Jul 2007 Posts: 11,836 Florida	Doylestown, I work for Fred Beans 2 weeks a month. If you are close I'm bringing it to you! Well I think I am running the black ones, where can I get the tan ones tomorrow??? My mine concern at this point is damaging it while driving, I can live with it's misbehaving until I get it ironed out. In PA, I have a few Mopar friends that can look at it, obviously whatever I am overlooking I will continue to overlook. Right now I have 36* total putting it at about 46* with the vacuum advance. Is there reason to be concerned about that timing? I am driving roughly 550 miles Friday and another 550 Sunday. Careful, your character's showing!

Re: SURGING Six Pack carbs [Re: mopar346] #310230 06/05/14 12:47 AM 06/05/14 12:47 AM
Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 36,040 Lincoln Nebraska R RapidRobert Circle Track
RapidRobert Circle Track R Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 36,040 Lincoln Nebraska	Quote: Right now I have 36* total putting it at about 46* with the vacuum advance. Is there reason to be concerned about that timing? 36 total is conservative normal BB amount. The extra 9 deg added in from the can is normal. If it ain't pinging from too light of spring combo (iirc it was not) then timingwise you are OK. EDIT 18 on the crank from the can as likely the 9 is the # stamped on the arm Last edited by RapidRobert; 06/05/14 01:11 AM. live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth

Re: SURGING Six Pack carbs [Re: RapidRobert] #310231 06/05/14 12:57 AM 06/05/14 12:57 AM
Joined: Jul 2007 Posts: 11,836 Florida M mopar346 Let me tell ya about fat chicks!
mopar346 Let me tell ya about fat chicks! M Joined: Jul 2007 Posts: 11,836 Florida	Robert, It is a 340 6 pack. The thread was started several years ago by Alan and I found it in a search and wondered if he figured his out, his was a 440. So in your view and I still OK with those numbers? Thank you Careful, your character's showing!

Re: SURGING Six Pack carbs [Re: mopar346] #310232 06/05/14 01:05 AM 06/05/14 01:05 AM
Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 36,040 Lincoln Nebraska R RapidRobert Circle Track
RapidRobert Circle Track R Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 36,040 Lincoln Nebraska	You're good my friend live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth

Re: SURGING Six Pack carbs [Re: RapidRobert] #310233 06/05/14 01:07 AM 06/05/14 01:07 AM
Joined: Jul 2007 Posts: 11,836 Florida M mopar346 Let me tell ya about fat chicks!
mopar346 Let me tell ya about fat chicks! M Joined: Jul 2007 Posts: 11,836 Florida	Quote: You're good my friend Thank you, ignore the PM. Careful, your character's showing!

Re: SURGING Six Pack carbs [Re: mopar346] #310234 06/05/14 01:08 AM 06/05/14 01:08 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 9,436 Blair County,PA 62maxwgn master
62maxwgn master Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 9,436 Blair County,PA	Quote: Doylestown, I work for Fred Beans 2 weeks a month. If you are close I'm bringing it to you! Well I think I am running the black ones, where can I get the tan ones tomorrow??? My mine concern at this point is damaging it while driving, I can live with it's misbehaving until I get it ironed out. In PA, I have a few Mopar friends that can look at it, obviously whatever I am overlooking I will continue to overlook. Right now I have 36* total putting it at about 46* with the vacuum advance. Is there reason to be concerned about that timing? I am driving roughly 550 miles Friday and another 550 Sunday. I doubt you can get them tomorrow unless you find a dealer that may have them in stock,the pt.# is P4529060,three base gaskets and three air horn gaskets,I keep extra's but that wont help you now And Doylestown is 228 miles east !!

Re: SURGING Six Pack carbs [Re: 62maxwgn] #310235 06/05/14 08:44 AM 06/05/14 08:44 AM
Joined: Jul 2007 Posts: 11,836 Florida M mopar346 Let me tell ya about fat chicks!
mopar346 Let me tell ya about fat chicks! M Joined: Jul 2007 Posts: 11,836 Florida	Thanks for the part number. Yea, 228 makes it a little rough for one day after work but, if I spend another week on it that might not seem like an issue. My biggest regret right now is that I blocked the cross overs and now my choke doesn't work properly, I am gonna have to undo that in short order, rather than get hung up trying to fix something that wasn't broke. Never had an intake run cold enough not to work the choke stove around here and I usually don't run 195* t-stats either, strange. Careful, your character's showing!

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