HVAC guys: heat pump circuit board fuse blows, need advice
#3084186
10/08/22 12:33 AM
10/08/22 12:33 AM
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Hemi_Joel
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Here's one for the guys who know about HVAC stuff. I have an Econar geothermal heat pump that heats and cools my home. I installed it new in 1989. It has been pretty reliable, but when it was about 10 years old I did have the mechanical controller replaced with a circuit board. When I decided it was cold enough around here to start heating recently I found that the circuit board was dead. None of the lights on it were on. A little bit of snooping around revealed that it has a 2 AG fuse on it that was blown. I replaced the fuse and turned on the circuit breaker. The fan started, about 10 seconds later the fuse blew, before the compressor started. I don't know if the fuse blew when it was attempting to energize the compressor relay, or if it was prior to that. But the compressor relay did not click on. I don't have any more fuses of that size on hand so I'm going to have to get some, but I would like to diagnose the cause of the fuse blowing before I put another one in. Does anyone have any suggestions on what components I should check, and how to check them? Attached is the wiring diagram and pictures of the components. I don't see any chafed wires or anything like that that could be grounding out. Thanks a lot, Joel
Last edited by Hemi_Joel; 10/08/22 12:36 AM.
[img]http://i.imgur.com/boeexFms.jpg[/img]31 Plymouth Coupe, 392 Hemi, T56 magnum RS23J71 RS27J77 RP23J71 RO23J71 WM21J8A I don't regret the things I've done. I only regret the things I didn't do. "Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools because they have to say something. ~ Plato"
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Re: HVAC guys: heat pump circuit board fuse blows, need advice
[Re: Hemi_Joel]
#3084204
10/08/22 06:01 AM
10/08/22 06:01 AM
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 5,180 upstate western ny
sogtx
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Pull the wire off the compressor contactor low voltage side ( coil ) See if it happens again .
If fuse lasts , it could be a bad contactor
Something drawing excess current - you just have to narrow it down to process of elimination
It could be reversing valve drawing excess current
It could be low voltage wires that rubbed through someplace?
Last edited by sogtx; 10/08/22 06:03 AM.
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Re: HVAC guys: heat pump circuit board fuse blows, need advice
[Re: sogtx]
#3084265
10/08/22 11:13 AM
10/08/22 11:13 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
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6PakBee
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I'm assuming that by "on the board" you mean F1. Unless there is an internal fault on the board it looks like it feeds:
Reversing valve Expansion valve Blower relay Compressor relay
I would guess the problem lies in this group. If the fan runs, I would doubt that is it. Nevertheless, I'd disconnect on side of each of the valves and one side of the relay coils and see if the fuse holds. Then connect them one at a time until the culprit is found.
"We live in a time when intelligent people are being silenced so that stupid people won't be offended".
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Re: HVAC guys: heat pump circuit board fuse blows, need advice
[Re: 6PakBee]
#3084269
10/08/22 11:24 AM
10/08/22 11:24 AM
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Hemi_Joel
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Thanks, I'll be heading to town too try and find some more fuses this afternoon and then I'll follow your recommendations. I'll let you know what happens.
Edit: You are correct, it is F1 that blows.
Last edited by Hemi_Joel; 10/08/22 11:59 AM.
[img]http://i.imgur.com/boeexFms.jpg[/img]31 Plymouth Coupe, 392 Hemi, T56 magnum RS23J71 RS27J77 RP23J71 RO23J71 WM21J8A I don't regret the things I've done. I only regret the things I didn't do. "Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools because they have to say something. ~ Plato"
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Re: HVAC guys: heat pump circuit board fuse blows, need advice
[Re: 360view]
#3084375
10/08/22 05:08 PM
10/08/22 05:08 PM
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360, It was on for such a short period of time I really didn't notice what the LEDs were doing. Usually when it starts up, the fan relay energizes right away, and then shortly after the compressor. I know that the LEDs for low pressure, high pressure, and freeze protection will stay lit if the unit locks out on any one of those conditions until you cut the power and turn it back on. Also I know that if you turn the thermostat down and then back up right away the short cycle light comes on and the compressor won't start until that times out. This is a pump and dump so I don't have any pump or pump controller, and I do not have a pump on the de-super heater so there's nothing going on with that.
I was digging around and I found two of the proper fuses , But the local stores don't have any so if I burn these two up I'll be waiting until Thursday for some to come in. I was thinking maybe I could do something similar to what you're talking about except not involve the circuit board. I was thinking that I could run the 24 volt transformer through a more readily available automotive fuse, and through the amp meter and disconnect each component and test it and see if I find anything shorted or drawing high amperage.
Econar has been out of business for quite a while so parts are not that easy to come by. I bought a parts heat that has a circuit board in it but it is hydronic, not forced air like mine. Looks like to convert it to hydronic they snipped one resistor out of it. I'd have to solder a resistor back into it if I need to use it.
Is there a way for me to add MOV protection?
[img]http://i.imgur.com/boeexFms.jpg[/img]31 Plymouth Coupe, 392 Hemi, T56 magnum RS23J71 RS27J77 RP23J71 RO23J71 WM21J8A I don't regret the things I've done. I only regret the things I didn't do. "Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools because they have to say something. ~ Plato"
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Re: HVAC guys: heat pump circuit board fuse blows, need advice
[Re: second 70]
#3084563
10/09/22 02:37 PM
10/09/22 02:37 PM
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Hemi_Joel
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I haven't had a chance to work on it since my last post but you guys are giving me a lot of ideas. I think here's the plan for tonight: I'll disconnect everything from the circuit board including the thermostat wires. I'll only have the 24 volt wires from the transformer connected to it and I'll turn on the power. If the fuse holds, then I'll hook up the thermostat wires. If that doesn't blow the fuse, then I'll connect up the compressor relay wires and see if that's it, and then continue connecting stuff until the fuse blows. I think I will disconnect the wires that go from the compressor relay to the compressor while I am testing so that I don't have the compressor running while the other stuff is not activated. I'll just be testing each 24 volt thing, one at a time. Thanks for all the help so far!
[img]http://i.imgur.com/boeexFms.jpg[/img]31 Plymouth Coupe, 392 Hemi, T56 magnum RS23J71 RS27J77 RP23J71 RO23J71 WM21J8A I don't regret the things I've done. I only regret the things I didn't do. "Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools because they have to say something. ~ Plato"
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Re: HVAC guys: heat pump circuit board fuse blows, need advice
[Re: 6PakBee]
#3086112
10/14/22 09:28 PM
10/14/22 09:28 PM
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I have the problem isolated. It is the electric expansion valve. I can have everything else connected and everything is fine but as soon as I touch the wire onto the expansion valve, the fuse blows. So I have a parts machine that I can go rob one of these out of. But how do I get this thing out of there? Does it thread out? It doesn't have any wrench flats or anything on it to indicate that it is a thread in part. And I don't want to put a wrech on it and start wrecking things. Is anybody familiar with these?
[img]http://i.imgur.com/boeexFms.jpg[/img]31 Plymouth Coupe, 392 Hemi, T56 magnum RS23J71 RS27J77 RP23J71 RO23J71 WM21J8A I don't regret the things I've done. I only regret the things I didn't do. "Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools because they have to say something. ~ Plato"
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Re: HVAC guys: heat pump circuit board fuse blows, need advice
[Re: Hemi_Joel]
#3086113
10/14/22 09:30 PM
10/14/22 09:30 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,704 North Dakota
6PakBee
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I know nothing about the valve but when I run into this type of problem I try to find a listing for a replacement and see what the specs are.
"We live in a time when intelligent people are being silenced so that stupid people won't be offended".
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Re: HVAC guys: heat pump circuit board fuse blows, need advice
[Re: Hemi_Joel]
#3086114
10/14/22 09:33 PM
10/14/22 09:33 PM
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Oh boy. I just took a closer look at it and it's also got a pipe coming out of the back of it. The thing must be soldered in. Does that mean I have to blow the charge to change it? It is an Eaton model 625.
Last edited by Hemi_Joel; 10/14/22 09:36 PM.
[img]http://i.imgur.com/boeexFms.jpg[/img]31 Plymouth Coupe, 392 Hemi, T56 magnum RS23J71 RS27J77 RP23J71 RO23J71 WM21J8A I don't regret the things I've done. I only regret the things I didn't do. "Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools because they have to say something. ~ Plato"
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Re: HVAC guys: heat pump circuit board fuse blows, need advice
[Re: Hemi_Joel]
#3086126
10/14/22 11:26 PM
10/14/22 11:26 PM
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TJP
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Oh boy. I just took a closer look at it and it's also got a pipe coming out of the back of it. The thing must be soldered in. Does that mean I have to blow the charge to change it? It is an Eaton model 625. This maybe helpful Operational info link
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Re: HVAC guys: heat pump circuit board fuse blows, need advice
[Re: Hemi_Joel]
#3086145
10/15/22 06:53 AM
10/15/22 06:53 AM
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Joined: Jan 2006
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360view
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You now need to check the red wire circuit after the valve for the (less likely) possibility that the ground/short is not inside the valve mechanism..
Very likely you now need to hire a pro who will carefully evacuate, recover and store the freon (R-22 now very very expensive ) fill the system with nitrogen, then replace and solder in the new valve, check for leaks, evacuate the nitrogen, refill with either R-22 or a “green” substitute like MO99.
Looking at $$$ unless the electrical problem is not in the valve.
Do not be surprised if the pro advises replacing the whole system due to age, parts availability. and R-22 laws.
If you read up on whether R-22 really damages the Ozone layer or is significant as a “greenhouse gas” compared to methane or carbon dioxide, it will leave you angry.
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