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Re: Dual Plane Intake Porting Pics [Re: krautrock] #3075849
09/09/22 05:28 PM
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parksr5 Offline OP
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Bringing it back from the dead.

Some serious "life got in the way" stuff happened but, I got a call last night. The engine is on the dyno, some pulls and tunning have occurred. So far, 460hp and 505 ft lbs is where it's at. I was told that it's pretty dialed in but, some more might be had with some final tweaks. Sounds like things might change a few numbers but, it's pretty close to being where it's going to be.

To reiterate/clarify, this is a 470 with 9.35:1 compression, a solid flat tappet that Dwayne spec'd for me (mid .500 lift and 250ish duration at .050), stock intake that I ported, K&G CNC ported 906's, etc. Everything is in FAST legal form, other than the dyno headers on it. So, probably knock around 25hp off of it when I throw the exhaust manifolds on when it goes in the car.

It's not set in stone but, final tweaks on the dyno may occur tomorrow. If so, I'll load it up and bring it home.

I'll post the final results when I know them.




Last edited by parksr5; 09/09/22 07:45 PM.
Re: Dual Plane Intake Porting Pics [Re: parksr5] #3076101
09/10/22 05:15 PM
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She's at home in the garage.

Made 3-4 pulls this morning. The dyno operator had everything sorted before I got there.

It made 460hp @ 5500 & 508ftlbs @ 4200.

35 degrees of timing was the sweet spot. Run on 93 pump gas from the local pump.

I'm pretty happy with it but, did expect just a little more hp. Guess you can't expect too much with a boat anchor intake.

Re: Dual Plane Intake Porting Pics [Re: parksr5] #3076168
09/10/22 09:54 PM
09/10/22 09:54 PM
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Hey, it’s running, and no holes in the pan....... that’s a win.

High compression is a staple of many of the better running FAST combos.
Was the intent to always have it end up that low?


68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
Re: Dual Plane Intake Porting Pics [Re: fast68plymouth] #3076244
09/11/22 08:23 AM
09/11/22 08:23 AM
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Dwayne, the engine was originally built, on a budget, to be street able piece that runs on pump gas and sees the track on occasion. I kind of got interested in the FAST class after everything was bought and paid for.

I want the car to remain pump gas friendly and something that I can just get in a drive 2-3 hours if I want to. I don't know if I will ever get more serious with the combo, maybe someday.

Re: Dual Plane Intake Porting Pics [Re: parksr5] #3076251
09/11/22 09:31 AM
09/11/22 09:31 AM
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Very cool. It will be great to see what it runs.

Making over 400 hp with that intake, exhaust, running on pump gas is no small feat, IMO

Re: Dual Plane Intake Porting Pics [Re: parksr5] #3076285
09/11/22 12:42 PM
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How high did they take it on the dyno?


68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
Re: Dual Plane Intake Porting Pics [Re: fast68plymouth] #3076290
09/11/22 12:55 PM
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I saw 6100-6200 on a few of the pulls I saw.

For the pull that made 460hp

5500 - 460.4
5600 - 460.3
5700 - 459
5800 - 455.8
5900 - 450.6
6000 - 447.4

Re: Dual Plane Intake Porting Pics [Re: parksr5] #3076869
09/13/22 11:07 AM
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The reason I asked about whether or not the 9.35:1 was the original CR target is........ it seems like the cam duration might be a tad long for only 9.35:1.

With the restricted intake and exhaust, combined with the modest CR, the running dynamic CR starts to taper off pretty quickly once the limited airflow really starts kicking in.

Sometimes running a little less duration will spike up the peak TQ numbers, and if the shape of the curve after peak(same drop in tq/rpm) is maintained, it can yield a higher peak hp number.

I refer to that as, “start high......end high”.
It’s usually only applicable to the types of builds that peak pretty early and make more tq than hp....... which are basically always airflow limited in someway or another.


68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
Re: Dual Plane Intake Porting Pics [Re: parksr5] #3077008
09/13/22 05:56 PM
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Those are good numbers for a streetable combo. With a sorted chassis and practice that will get you into the 11s.

Bill


1968 Road Runner 383 727 3.91 8 3/4 3520 with driver 11.04 @ 124.26 with 1.67 60’
Done on G70-14 redlines thru factory manifolds New quickest ever 383 build in FAST.
10:1 451” replaced with 14:1 499”.
Re: Dual Plane Intake Porting Pics [Re: fast68plymouth] #3077014
09/13/22 06:48 PM
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Originally Posted by fast68plymouth
The reason I asked about whether or not the 9.35:1 was the original CR target is........ it seems like the cam duration might be a tad long for only 9.35:1.

With the restricted intake and exhaust, combined with the modest CR, the running dynamic CR starts to taper off pretty quickly once the limited airflow really starts kicking in.

Sometimes running a little less duration will spike up the peak TQ numbers, and if the shape of the curve after peak(same drop in tq/rpm) is maintained, it can yield a higher peak hp number.

I refer to that as, “start high......end high”.
It’s usually only applicable to the types of builds that peak pretty early and make more tq than hp....... which are basically always airflow limited in someway or another.


Dwayne, the compression ratio is the original target.

If I'm understanding you correctly, if the cam had a little less duration, it would potentially pick up peak torque and HP and carry the gains for a little longer? Would that be less duration on both intake and exhaust? How many degrees smaller are we thinking? How much of a gain are we thinking? Also, I know this is all a guess, but what are your general thoughts? I appreciate your input and always like the opportunity to learn.

Dyno.jpg
Last edited by parksr5; 09/14/22 09:35 AM.
Re: Dual Plane Intake Porting Pics [Re: roadrunner2] #3077015
09/13/22 06:50 PM
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Originally Posted by roadrunner2
Those are good numbers for a streetable combo. With a sorted chassis and practice that will get you into the 11s.

Bill


Thanks, Bill!

What are the plans for the new engine, have you been working on it at all after the issues?

Re: Dual Plane Intake Porting Pics [Re: parksr5] #3077054
09/13/22 08:56 PM
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Originally Posted by parksr5
Originally Posted by roadrunner2
Those are good numbers for a streetable combo. With a sorted chassis and practice that will get you into the 11s.

Bill


Thanks, Bill!

What are the plans for the new engine, have you been working on it at all after the issues?


Finally have all the parts for rebuilding it. It should be on track before the snow flies.

Bill


1968 Road Runner 383 727 3.91 8 3/4 3520 with driver 11.04 @ 124.26 with 1.67 60’
Done on G70-14 redlines thru factory manifolds New quickest ever 383 build in FAST.
10:1 451” replaced with 14:1 499”.
Re: Dual Plane Intake Porting Pics [Re: parksr5] #3077171
09/14/22 10:36 AM
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Quote
If I'm understanding you correctly, if the cam had a little less duration, it would potentially pick up peak torque and HP and carry the gains for a little longer?


Not exactly......... and without testing you wouldn’t know for sure.
And since the intent is to run it with ex manifolds, it would need to be tested that way.

What I’m saying is........ a shorter duration cam “might” make a higher peak tq number.
“If” that happened, and the fall off after peak tq was the same drop in tq/rpm as the current cam, for enough rpm after peaking........ it could end up making more hp.
But.... We’re not talking big changes here.
And I’m not really advocating you change anything........ I’m more just “thinking out loud”.
Again, the test would only be valid if you used the ex manifolds.
Trying to do R&D for an ex manifold combo........ by testing with headers...... is pointless.


68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
Re: Dual Plane Intake Porting Pics [Re: fast68plymouth] #3077200
09/14/22 12:10 PM
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Originally Posted by fast68plymouth
Quote
If I'm understanding you correctly, if the cam had a little less duration, it would potentially pick up peak torque and HP and carry the gains for a little longer?


Not exactly......... and without testing you wouldn’t know for sure.
And since the intent is to run it with ex manifolds, it would need to be tested that way.

What I’m saying is........ a shorter duration cam “might” make a higher peak tq number.
“If” that happened, and the fall off after peak tq was the same drop in tq/rpm as the current cam, for enough rpm after peaking........ it could end up making more hp.
But.... We’re not talking big changes here.
And I’m not really advocating you change anything........ I’m more just “thinking out loud”.
Again, the test would only be valid if you used the ex manifolds.
Trying to do R&D for an ex manifold combo........ by testing with headers...... is pointless.


Thanks for clarifying!

I was bummed we didn't get to test it with the manifolds. We'll just have to see what it does at the track.

Re: Dual Plane Intake Porting Pics [Re: parksr5] #3080719
09/26/22 05:30 AM
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Originally Posted by parksr5
Originally Posted by roadrunner2
Those are good numbers for a streetable combo. With a sorted chassis and practice that will get you into the 11s.

Bill


Thanks, Bill!

What are the plans for the new engine, have you been working on it at all after the issues?


Just took it out on its maiden voyage. Put down an 11.28 and 11.21 both at 121.5. I’m pretty happy with that being the starting point for this build. Air was good but there was a head wind.

Bill


1968 Road Runner 383 727 3.91 8 3/4 3520 with driver 11.04 @ 124.26 with 1.67 60’
Done on G70-14 redlines thru factory manifolds New quickest ever 383 build in FAST.
10:1 451” replaced with 14:1 499”.
Re: Dual Plane Intake Porting Pics [Re: roadrunner2] #3080765
09/26/22 10:11 AM
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up up

Nice job!!

Did it go back on the dyno?


68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
Re: Dual Plane Intake Porting Pics [Re: roadrunner2] #3080893
09/26/22 05:18 PM
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Originally Posted by roadrunner2
Originally Posted by parksr5
Originally Posted by roadrunner2
Those are good numbers for a streetable combo. With a sorted chassis and practice that will get you into the 11s.

Bill


Thanks, Bill!

What are the plans for the new engine, have you been working on it at all after the issues?


Just took it out on its maiden voyage. Put down an 11.28 and 11.21 both at 121.5. I’m pretty happy with that being the starting point for this build. Air was good but there was a head wind.

Bill


That's awesome, way to go!

I fired mine up in the car on Friday night. I proceeded to work on the carb most of Saturday and got it about right where I want it at WOT, maybe just a touch more fuel is needed. I'd like to get the idle AFR down a little and I have one spot of the throttle at cruise RPM where it's running lean. It's really close.

I noticed my brakes were a little weird a few times when I was out but, would then be fine the next time I stepped on them, I thought "I need to look at those soon". Fired it up after cool down to pull in the garage, put it in drive and I have no brakes. I'd opened my fence to pull back behind my house but, planned on stopping, closing the gate and opening the garage door. The garage door was not open yet. I acted quickly and swung the car right between my garage and a tree, through some gravel, over my man door walkway, into my back yard and was able to slow down enough to slam it in park. I didn't hit anything and was lucky; maybe I needed to change my shorts but, everything else is okay. Pumped the brakes again and they were back. I backed out of my back yard back onto the driveway, opened the garage and almost began to pull it in but, decided to shut it off and push it in.

Pulled all the drums off yesterday, inspected everything and could find nothing wrong or leaking. The fluid was bad and the front bowl on the MC was almost empty, so; I sucked the fluid out of the MC, filled it up and started to bleed the brakes. The pedal was really good and then, all of the sudden, here and there, the pedal would just go to the floor easy. My wife was pumping and was yelling at me, "you're not getting the bleeder tight enough". I would tighten it some more and we'd be good and then, poof, we're not good again. I came to the front of the car and everything was fine, pedal was great and then all of the sudden, bang, it goes to the floor again and you can hear a slight leaking air sound. It would happen every 10-15 pumps. I got in the car and pumped the crap out of them, and everything felt great and then, bang, it goes to the floor and you hear the air sound again. [censored]!. I inspect everything again and this time, I see fluid on the back of the firewall leaking inside the car; it wasn't wet there at the beginning of the day. So, the MC is bad; I ordered a new one last night. It did what it did infrequently when I was driving it; I assume a seal is compromised but, just not all the way gone yet.

Could have been real bad if this had happened during the testing of the day.

The car has been in my family since 99, I have not once used the emergency brake, can't remember if my Dad ever used it, and have no idea if it's operational. It's probably time to see if it works. Hindsight, I'm glad I didn't try it because if it's not operational, the time I spent trying it would have probably been enough that I would have crashed into the door, most likely gone through it or pushed it off the tracks and into my truck, which is about 2 feet from my Wife's Mustang right now, so; it may have taken damage too.

Last edited by parksr5; 09/26/22 05:21 PM.
Re: Dual Plane Intake Porting Pics [Re: fast68plymouth] #3080896
09/26/22 05:26 PM
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Originally Posted by fast68plymouth
up up

Nice job!!

Did it go back on the dyno?


No. Built it identical to the old one.

Bill


1968 Road Runner 383 727 3.91 8 3/4 3520 with driver 11.04 @ 124.26 with 1.67 60’
Done on G70-14 redlines thru factory manifolds New quickest ever 383 build in FAST.
10:1 451” replaced with 14:1 499”.
Re: Dual Plane Intake Porting Pics [Re: parksr5] #3080897
09/26/22 05:29 PM
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Originally Posted by parksr5
Originally Posted by roadrunner2
Originally Posted by parksr5
Originally Posted by roadrunner2
Those are good numbers for a streetable combo. With a sorted chassis and practice that will get you into the 11s.

Bill


Thanks, Bill!

What are the plans for the new engine, have you been working on it at all after the issues?


Just took it out on its maiden voyage. Put down an 11.28 and 11.21 both at 121.5. I’m pretty happy with that being the starting point for this build. Air was good but there was a head wind.

Bill


That's awesome, way to go!

I fired mine up in the car on Friday night. I proceeded to work on the carb most of Saturday and got it about right where I want it at WOT, maybe just a touch more fuel is needed. I'd like to get the idle AFR down a little and I have one spot of the throttle at cruise RPM where it's running lean. It's really close.

I noticed my brakes were a little weird a few times when I was out but, would then be fine the next time I stepped on them, I thought "I need to look at those soon". Fired it up after cool down to pull in the garage, put it in drive and I have no brakes. I'd opened my fence to pull back behind my house but, planned on stopping, closing the gate and opening the garage door. The garage door was not open yet. I acted quickly and swung the car right between my garage and a tree, through some gravel, over my man door walkway, into my back yard and was able to slow down enough to slam it in park. I didn't hit anything and was lucky; maybe I needed to change my shorts but, everything else is okay. Pumped the brakes again and they were back. I backed out of my back yard back onto the driveway, opened the garage and almost began to pull it in but, decided to shut it off and push it in.

Pulled all the drums off yesterday, inspected everything and could find nothing wrong or leaking. The fluid was bad and the front bowl on the MC was almost empty, so; I sucked the fluid out of the MC, filled it up and started to bleed the brakes. The pedal was really good and then, all of the sudden, here and there, the pedal would just go to the floor easy. My wife was pumping and was yelling at me, "you're not getting the bleeder tight enough". I would tighten it some more and we'd be good and then, poof, we're not good again. I came to the front of the car and everything was fine, pedal was great and then all of the sudden, bang, it goes to the floor again and you can hear a slight leaking air sound. It would happen every 10-15 pumps. I got in the car and pumped the crap out of them, and everything felt great and then, bang, it goes to the floor and you hear the air sound again. [censored]!. I inspect everything again and this time, I see fluid on the back of the firewall leaking inside the car; it wasn't wet there at the beginning of the day. So, the MC is bad; I ordered a new one last night. It did what it did infrequently when I was driving it; I assume a seal is compromised but, just not all the way gone yet.

Could have been real bad if this had happened during the testing of the day.

The car has been in my family since 99, I have not once used the emergency brake, can't remember if my Dad ever used it, and have no idea if it's operational. It's probably time to see if it works. Hindsight, I'm glad I didn't try it because if it's not operational, the time I spent trying it would have probably been enough that I would have crashed into the door, most likely gone through it or pushed it off the tracks and into my truck, which is about 2 feet from my Wife's Mustang right now, so; it may have taken damage too.


Wow. That’s crazy. In the end lucky won out and you lived to fight another day.

Bill


1968 Road Runner 383 727 3.91 8 3/4 3520 with driver 11.04 @ 124.26 with 1.67 60’
Done on G70-14 redlines thru factory manifolds New quickest ever 383 build in FAST.
10:1 451” replaced with 14:1 499”.
Re: Dual Plane Intake Porting Pics [Re: parksr5] #3081077
09/27/22 10:37 AM
09/27/22 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by parksr5
Originally Posted by fast68plymouth
Quote
If I'm understanding you correctly, if the cam had a little less duration, it would potentially pick up peak torque and HP and carry the gains for a little longer?


Not exactly......... and without testing you wouldn’t know for sure.
And since the intent is to run it with ex manifolds, it would need to be tested that way.

What I’m saying is........ a shorter duration cam “might” make a higher peak tq number.
“If” that happened, and the fall off after peak tq was the same drop in tq/rpm as the current cam, for enough rpm after peaking........ it could end up making more hp.
But.... We’re not talking big changes here.
And I’m not really advocating you change anything........ I’m more just “thinking out loud”.
Again, the test would only be valid if you used the ex manifolds.
Trying to do R&D for an ex manifold combo........ by testing with headers...... is pointless.


Thanks for clarifying!

I was bummed we didn't get to test it with the manifolds. We'll just have to see what it does at the track.


Curious , why wasn't the testing done solely with the exh manifolds?


running up my post count some more .
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